Classic Season #32 goes experimental!

[OrangE]

i agree with komo.

by bng style is similar to his, finding a good hide is crucial. if both teams find a good hide the best bng'er wins (notcher or not).

it seems easy to understand and keeps the competitivity up, imho.

[OrangE]

ropa, when's the last time you got things done on WA? Like actual things, projects, league changes, league launches etcetera. I'm not talking about hosting a single tournament or anything, that's easy stuff.

If you have to think real hard for an answer (or more likely, not find an answer at all), I'd say the bag of shit has no power at all.
You can try to polish that turd all you want, it's still a turd.

Call me again when you grow up, ropa.

he doesn't even play at all, so i'm wondering why he looses time in arguing with us about TUS. (well no, i'm not wondering about it, i already know).

[Free]

Mankind wouldn't evolve if everyone thought that if something ain't broke, there's no need to try and make it better.

[Aerox]

ropa, when's the last time you got things done on WA? Like actual things, projects, league changes, league launches etcetera. I'm not talking about hosting a single tournament or anything, that's easy stuff.

If you have to think real hard for an answer (or more likely, not find an answer at all), I'd say the bag of shit has no power at all.
You can try to polish that turd all you want, it's still a turd.

Call me again when you grow up, ropa.

You draw the line were you see fit, I could ask you something similar: when was the last time you won a clan league or were competing for the singles trophy?

[ShyGuy]

I really don't get all the bitching that's being done ESPECIALLY since the season hasn't even started. 

If the season plays out and it turns out that 100% of these changes were bad decisions, then okay, change them back, but at least test them so we can cite what happened in season 32 when discussing the future of the schemes... it's better than changing nothing and just arguing back and forth.

I think some of the changes are pretty bad at face value, but my excitement that TuS is actually trying different things far outweighs my personal analysis of the scheme changes.  Ropa may be right, but it's not the time.  Your points will be stronger when you can cite from actual season 32 games. 

[TheKomodo]

I really don't get all the bitching that's being done ESPECIALLY since the season hasn't even started. 

If the season plays out and it turns out that 100% of these changes were bad decisions, then okay, change them back, but at least test them so we can cite what happened in season 32 when discussing the future of the schemes... it's better than changing nothing and just arguing back and forth.

I think some of the changes are pretty bad at face value, but my excitement that TuS is actually trying different things far outweighs my personal analysis of the scheme changes.  Ropa may be right, but it's not the time.  Your points will be stronger when you can cite from actual season 32 games.

Well said man, I totally agree, let's just take it on the chin, really try our best, be mature, and after 32 ends, we can discuss all the pros and cons, and maybe, just MAYBE, we might end up with not just the best website WA has ever had, but the best schemes also !

[Aerox]

I really don't get all the bitching that's being done ESPECIALLY since the season hasn't even started. 

If the season plays out and it turns out that 100% of these changes were bad decisions, then okay, change them back, but at least test them so we can cite what happened in season 32 when discussing the future of the schemes... it's better than changing nothing and just arguing back and forth.

I think some of the changes are pretty bad at face value, but my excitement that TuS is actually trying different things far outweighs my personal analysis of the scheme changes.  Ropa may be right, but it's not the time.  Your points will be stronger when you can cite from actual season 32 games.

Most people are going to vote/decide based on the amount of games they win during the testing period in any particular scheme. The testing is flawed from its conception. I appreciate the principle, but the execution will never succeed.

Of course having a sample would greatly help, but you assume Shy that people are going to give legit feedback. You might, but you're an exception to a pretty generalized rule.

[Peja]

ropa which changes would you suggest for each scheme?

[chakkman]

I like franz' stuff better: https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/schemes/top-scheme-ideas-19765/msg160123/#msg160123. I think allowing rope knocking in Elite/T17 will change the scheme too much despite only having 1/2 ropes. Saying that, i don't know about the BnG changes, maybe someone who plays BnG much should rather judge these changes.

[Aerox]

ropa which changes would you suggest for each scheme?

that would require me to think and probably discuss things with other people for a reasonable amount of time I don't have or if I do I rather spend it in other things.

But I can give quick advice, changing the scheme is not always the answer to a scheme's problem, sometimes it's the map culture that's stopping the competition ground from being as attractive as it should be and to fix that you need to look elsewhere.
First, by adding a system that enforces the use of official maps only (random or otherwise), a list that can be periodically updated to include more maps as they are made but with very specific filtering to guarantee the map is not actually helping the so called "cheap" strategies.
Secondly, if you want to make the scheme more fair do not do so at the expense of losing more important things. A classic league represents overall skill, and good ropers were already excelling in WxW, now they will have an even easier time transferring, there's no unique skill in WxW. If the staff of this league had the guts to go forward with these changes they shouldn't have an issue with making stronger changes and removing one of the version of roper they have in the all around league (WxW).

Anyway, they have an excellent group of people here with great game knowledge and capability to solve these issues, they're just taking the wrong design routes because they have different principles, or more limited ones.

[avirex]

ropa is such a busy man, as we can all see

[Crazy]

Secondly, if you want to make the scheme more fair do not do so at the expense of losing more important things. A classic league represents overall skill, and good ropers were already excelling in WxW, now they will have an even easier time transferring, there's no unique skill in WxW. If the staff of this league had the guts to go forward with these changes they shouldn't have an issue with making stronger changes and removing one of the version of roper they have in the all around league (WxW).

I don't know where you get that obvious link from being a good roper to being a good WXW'er, Ropa. The reason I'm questioning this is based on my own experience as a player. I consider myself as a good roper, but I don't consider myself as a good WXW'er. I'm overall the 6th best player in Roper, and the 267th best player in WXW. I have played far less games in WxW and surely it affects the rating to some extent, but by your wording I should have no problem increasing my rating in WXW and I should have won more games then I have lost in the scheme. That is far from the truth!

I'd say that there is an unique skill in WXW, which is scrolling. You don't need to be a good scroller in Roper: games are decided by how effectivly you can grab the crates and attack. The only time that being a good WXW'er comes in handy is when the game goes to sudden death. The speed of your rope is not such a big factor in a regular roper. In WXW, you need speed for all it's worth to have the time to attack, and scrolling the map quickly is decisive. Are you automatically a good roper because you're a good WXW'er? I don't think so. There are many examples of players coming from WWP, who's remarkable good in WXW but who comes too short in toper.

In short, I don't agree that WXW is similar or another version of Roper. I can't see/understand your reasoning behind this Ropa. You have to show a level of skill that differs completely in the two schemes. WXW should be considered as a scheme that increases the overall skill, and in my opinion it should stay in the league. What is your definition of a roper anyway, Ropa?

[Aerox]

Secondly, if you want to make the scheme more fair do not do so at the expense of losing more important things. A classic league represents overall skill, and good ropers were already excelling in WxW, now they will have an even easier time transferring, there's no unique skill in WxW. If the staff of this league had the guts to go forward with these changes they shouldn't have an issue with making stronger changes and removing one of the version of roper they have in the all around league (WxW).

I don't know where you get that obvious link from being a good roper to being a good WXW'er, Ropa. The reason I'm questioning this is based on my own experience as a player. I consider myself as a good roper, but I don't consider myself as a good WXW'er. I'm overall the 6th best player in Roper, and the 267th best player in WXW. I have played far less games in WxW and surely it affects the rating to some extent, but by your wording I should have no problem increasing my rating in WXW and I should have won more games then I have lost in the scheme. That is far from the truth!

I'd say that there is an unique skill in WXW, which is scrolling. You don't need to be a good scroller in Roper: games are decided by how effectivly you can grab the crates and attack. The only time that being a good WXW'er comes in handy is when the game goes to sudden death. The speed of your rope is not such a big factor in a regular roper. In WXW, you need speed for all it's worth to have the time to attack, and scrolling the map quickly is decisive. Are you automatically a good roper because you're a good WXW'er? I don't think so. There are many examples of players coming from WWP, who's remarkable good in WXW but who comes too short in toper.

In short, I don't agree that WXW is similar or another version of Roper. I can't see/understand your reasoning behind this Ropa. You have to show a level of skill that differs completely in the two schemes. WXW should be considered as a scheme that increases the overall skill, and in my opinion it should stay in the league. What is your definition of a roper anyway, Ropa?

So you're saying scrolling through horizontal ceilings is the unique skill WxW has. Let's add WASCAR to the classic league.

Ok.

What if I started making WxW maps that do not look like roperaces for newbies?


Either way you might be an exception to the rule, as the normal amongst great ropers is the ability to scroll (specially in maps where scrolling is piss easy like WxW) and power spike (the much quicker alternative to shadows).

Of course many WWP WxWers struggled with roping at first, but that's because roper has many more unique skills, for one, the ability to rope in manually (in WxW, most movements are automatic and more so assuming many people "map abuse" in this scheme (it's main flaw in competitive scenarios, not the weapons crates, those weren't the problem)), but that doesn't take away the fact that WxW is now roper in custom linear maps in which the crate always fall in the same places (the walls).

Now you can talk about the uniqueness of piling in WxW, well, roper has 2 worms now and last time I checked in WxW clanners if you never missed a turn strategy became irrelevant, yeah... like in roper.

[Aerox]

Scheme idea #32432523:

Bazookas, Grenades & Races.


Imagine a  indestructible BnG map. This BnG map has a subterranean complex of passages, these passages have openings to the surface of the map. For 1v1, it has 4 surface exits, 1a, 2a, 1b and 2b. Connecting 1a and 2a there is a battle race underneath the map, same goes for 1b and 2b, the same race, just mirrored.

Turn time is 15 seconds, 13 seconds are needed to complete the battle race at any given time doing a perfect run.

The idea is that every turn the player has to enter the surface entrance more closer to him and get out through the exit to then attempt a shot against his enemy.

Let's add this

[TheKomodo]

ropa have you been taking e's or something mate? You've lost the plot...