Experimental season result

[SPW]

youre right with the most, ray. A group of veterans must have the power. I woudnt change anything either. But the last sentence you just should think, but not write. 

And, tel is open again, since two days. 

[avirex]

**troll**


what i meant to say is... that post is damn ignorant Ray!!  stop being so cocky with all your posts, its annoying.

[Ray]

But the last sentence you just should think, but not write. 

That's just a Bill Burr catchphrase.

And, tel is open again, since two days. 

Well, the fact that I wasn't even aware of that shows you just how much I care about this community anymore.

that post is damn ignorant Ray!!  stop being so cocky with all your posts, its annoying.

The frequency of me posting to these forums nowadays is very low, so I can advise you do what I do, when something annoys you: don't read it, get out of the way and just get on with your life.

I'm not cocky. I said my opinion about the changes. I never declared myself one of those old guys, or a pro, or whatever. I respect my elders, both in real life or in this community, and so should everyone else and all these changes show is the exact opposite of that. I really don't know what tone of voice you imagine to my posts when reading them or what you think of me for saying I'm cocky, I don't get neither the ignorant nor the cocky part.

[Aerox]

the team17 change is baffling


you want to remove the luck factor that is darksiding until SD and whoever has the best SD weapons wins right?

did you stop one second to realize this was never an issue in the proper team17 scheme with worm selects?

Might wanna consider that instead of limiting the scheme so much.

it seems as if you went out of your way just to come up with a fresh alternative just so you can both move forward and give your back to the obvious. But you you're just losing so much in the path with that simplified scheme. You only needed to add one weapon, not take away that many.

TL;DR: keep the scheme like it was, add 2 worm selects.

[MonkeyIsland]

you want to remove the luck factor that is darksiding until SD and whoever has the best SD weapons wins right?

No. We don't have such luck factor. Since there are 7 girders, one can't keep blocking his opponent forever.

[DarkOne]

[...]This shows a huge lack of respect towards anyone who started playing before you, towards the game and the game's culture[...]

This made absolutely no sense to me. Would you care to explain how it's disrespectful? And if you can make a ranking list of respect/disrespect, does having a look at schemes and wondering if they need changing rank higher or lower than this?

Go f@#! yourselves.

Last on the bandwagon, I know

What was wrong with doing full power shots in the first place?

The way I saw BnG, it was a test of skills, who could handle the bazooka and grenade the best. Before notching, at least, this meant picking the right angle (estimation of a weapons' trajectory) as well as the right power to fire at (a sense of timing, when to release space). Notching has for the most part removed the latter part, which is a sad thing, if you ask me.

[Aerox]

you want to remove the luck factor that is darksiding until SD and whoever has the best SD weapons wins right?

No. We don't have such luck factor. Since there are 7 girders, one can't keep blocking his opponent forever.

mixed with words I see.

Let me rephrase:

can you explain the reasoning behind removing SD weapons? What does said measure aim to accomplish?


I know it must be hard giving in to the better alternative, specially when it's such an obvious one that has been in front of your face the whole time. No, you rather strip the scheme to its bone like it's happened so many times before.

Broken record time: team17 was a scheme without problems, you had infinite girders but you also had 2 of their natural counters: the worm selects, the most powerful anti girder tool in the whole game. The game was balanced around the fact that if you were a good collector and weapon user you would kill more worms than your opponent,  if you did so, worm select would provide an advantage against girders making darkside a non issue (if you're good at killing worms).
When people moved to WWP they couldn't get the scheme right due to the game's limitation (you couldn't add worm select weapons) and thus it mutated into what we have or had today (people stopped playing it on open islands, too): a scheme were killing worms better than your opponent isn't really winning you the game per say because having less worms is not a handicap if there aren't worm selects but there are girders and SD weapons. Worm selects are the one tool that made it all fit and be balanced. It's this mutated version (and I say mutated because the changes are circumstantial (WWP sucks) and without any thought put into them) that has problems. And apparently swapping back to the proper scheme is too much for everyone's ego.

parody: HOW ABOUT WE MAKE AVERAGES OF ALL THE WEAPONS COLLECTED IN T17 GAMES BASED OFF TUS REPLAYS. then what we do is make the scheme to have the average of all weapons so it's fair for everyone and we limit girders because they have no weapon that counters them directly in the game or maybe there is but we hate it so much we refuse to accept it. DID I JUST HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WITH THIS ONE FRIENDS?

[MonkeyIsland]

See ropa, I normally auto ignore your posts, simply because most of the times your first concern is to sound smart rather than making a point.

can you explain the reasoning behind removing SD weapons? What does said measure aim to accomplish?

I will quote yourself:
did you stop one second to realize that we never removed any SD weapons from T17 scheme? We added 1 turn delay to explosive weapons which could cause first turn plop, but we excluded SD weapons from these delays.

Maybe next time spend more time reading than investigating how to sound smart?

[avirex]

See ropa, I normally auto ignore your posts, simply because most of the times your first concern is to sound smart rather than making a point.

can you explain the reasoning behind removing SD weapons? What does said measure aim to accomplish?

I will quote yourself:
did you stop one second to realize that we never removed any SD weapons from T17 scheme? We added 1 turn delay to explosive weapons which could cause first turn plop, but we excluded SD weapons from these delays.

Maybe next time spend more time reading than investigating how to sound smart?

bahahha nice post MI



Ray: forget it.

[Aerox]

See ropa, I normally auto ignore your posts, simply because most of the times your first concern is to sound smart rather than making a point.

can you explain the reasoning behind removing SD weapons? What does said measure aim to accomplish?

I will quote yourself:
did you stop one second to realize that we never removed any SD weapons from T17 scheme? We added 1 turn delay to explosive weapons which could cause first turn plop, but we excluded SD weapons from these delays.

Maybe next time spend more time reading than investigating how to sound smart?

Well, look at it this way, the scheme is still shit and you're still having a hard time expressing yourself (not the only one here who was confused by your confusing announcement), worst case scenario, nothing is stopping you from coming to reason with the scheme using the insight in this thread, because I think the evolution of the scheme is pretty obvious and what the right thing to do is, but you keep limiting girders here and there just to keep the scheme you have learned and in hopes to maintain your winning ratio. That's how everyone votes, anyway.

[daiNa]

open t17

[KoreanRedDragon]

What was wrong with doing full power shots in the first place?

The way I saw BnG, it was a test of skills, who could handle the bazooka and grenade the best. Before notching, at least, this meant picking the right angle (estimation of a weapons' trajectory) as well as the right power to fire at (a sense of timing, when to release space). Notching has for the most part removed the latter part, which is a sad thing, if you ask me.

But full power shots existed before notching was even called notching (the term appeared roughly 10 years ago, give or take). And still today, in practice, players do as many full power shots that aren't notched as those that are. A lot of the time those "by feel" full power shots, in BnG as in other schemes, are quite impressive and satisfying to pull off (see my Showcase 4 submission), certainly something I would like to see more of in league BnG, not less. By making TestStuff mandatory, TUS isn't punishing notchers, you're targeting players who resort to full power shots more often than others. And I would argue that there's enough difference between the two to make this change look completely arbitrary, especially because it comes irreversibly coupled with the inability to aim straight up easily, which actually favours experienced notchers and completely ruins, for example, my approach to aiming.

It also strikes me as more than a little schizoid that on the one hand, TUS specifically allows notching and tells players to just get better if they want to be competitive, while on the other, you're happy to resort to these extreme measures* (the only rationale being that it'll make life harder for notchers) even at the cost of reducing the viable repertoire of shots available to all players, thus making the scheme more bland.

And as an aside, why is notching bad in BnG but okay in all other ground schemes?

* Yes, introducing a different, experimental set of game mechanics into the league because of a single scheme is extreme by WA standards. Like really really extreme.

[avirex]

yeah, i really dont like the ts...

i wish we would get rid of it...


i suggest a no rules bng for 1 season, and see how it goes.

[TheKomodo]

The good thing about ts, it makes it harder for people who notch 4s FP shots and low winds to hit, the low winds is the important part here, however, any experienced notcher should know the ways around this...

The bad thing about ts, for low aimed LG zooks with alot of wind, and trick shots that need full power, it's just f@#!ing annoying, let alone, people keep forgetting ts is even on !

The amount of times i've seen avirex hit himself in the last 4 weeks alone with ts, is amusing, but bullshit...

For me ts is a good thing and a bad thing...

A good solution would be no rules bng, but ban "flat maps", maps used would have to meet a certain criteria...

[j0hny]

Is deleted Rope knocking allowed. so is not allowed right?