Clanner point system.

[TheKomodo]

I was thinking about some stuff with clanners and came up with a good idea.

Normally, when you play a clan, doesn't matter who plays you will win points depending on their Rank for each scheme.

What if, you could win points for clanners depending on who is playing, and what schemes they have played before and win/lose.

For example, 2 players made alot of points in Roper/TTRR/WxW but little points in Elite/T17/BnG for their clan, 2 other members in this clan have alot of points in Elite/T17/BnG but little points in Roper/TTRR/WxW, and if you take 1 player each who have high points in different schemes, it will average out the points.

I have a list of reasons why this would be nice to have.

1. It would change the amount of points you can win from schemes with different members of a clan and different clans could pick different schemes depending on who plays, make it a little more interesting.

2. This would stop clans from picking a scheme they can win ALOT of points with just because that other clan has players who don't/can't even play that scheme good enough to defend those points. (Yes, it bothers me a bit that other clans keep picking BnG just because I ain't there to defend the points I put my share into earning lol, but, it isn't just me, it happens to other clans too, I mean, I get over it easy, doesn't bother me THAT much I can win em back lol, but it would just make it more worthwhile imo to have to earn your points against the players who actually earned them).

3. If you come across 2 members of a clan who won alot of games in 1 scheme, they will have more points because the other players losses don't count if they have a high win ratio for that scheme, you can try to beat them and gain their points.

4. I think it would be more exciting defending your own points that you helped your clan earn, you still have to work together as a whole clan so it wouldn't affect teamwork or the general idea of clanning.

5. More competitive and unique.

Maybe some players will disagree, but I only posted here because a few friends thought it was a good idea so I thought I would share it, if you don't ask you don't get lol.
3.

[Ray]

Our clan picks Elite against Random00 and SPW. UPS, they have to go, so Unique and I will play, ok? Of course that is just an example to show you the only problem with this system. Other than that, I was thinking about this too a long time ago.

How would you analyze? I mean, if there are more than 2 member there from a clan, they will obviously pick the two players for their pick who risk the least points and that doesn't necessarily mean they are not good at the scheme, perhaps there are better ones in the clan and thus they played it so far in clanners.

[TheKomodo]

Our clan picks Elite against Random00 and SPW. UPS, they have to go, so Unique and I will play, ok? Of course that is just an example to show you the only problem with this system. Other than that, I was thinking about this too a long time ago.

How would you analyze? I mean, if there are more than 2 member there from a clan, they will obviously pick the two players for their pick who risk the least points and that doesn't necessarily mean they are not good at the scheme, perhaps there are better ones in the clan and thus they played it so far in clanners.

Well, why would Random and SPW have to go lol, wouldn't they want to play Elite, probably their best scheme? So they have best chance of defending their points.

Agree which 2 members of each clan are playing, then you analyse in clanner with play names put into the boxes, then it would load up the calculated stats.

Or say, for example, Random/SPW/Unique/Ray are on for CF, and Komito/lalo/daina/oldsock are on for cFc, CF could say "We pick BnG against Komito and lalo" and cFc could say "We pick Elite against Random and SPW.

Man that would be so cool...

[Albino]

I like this idea. +1 for you Komo.

[Ray]

But that just doesn't work! Picking against specific players... And my example was to show that clans won't risk losing many points when they have an alternative.

[darKz]

I like the idea.

Ray, going by your example, if Random/SPW really have to go and Unique/Ray play instead, CF wouldn't lose as many points for a loss because your Elite-points for CF aren't as high.
Did I get it right Dave? If so, I had this in mind a while ago but never bothered posting it. Would make clanning a lot fairer and we'd get rid of the problem that SPW would never play TTRR because he'd lose us like 60-70 points. xD

So basically, this would probably raise the activity which is well enough reason to try it.

[Ray]

My point was... There could be situations in which players know they would lose a lot of points, because they played most of the Elite clanners for instance.

So they say: "sorry, we have to go, but two others play that pick instead" so they avoid risking many points.

Really, I have nothing against the idea, because as I said, I had this in mind as well, but like René, never bothered posting. But I'm just saying, I think that would be one of the consequences.

[darKz]

Yeah I get your point now.. But why risk a loss? If your two good Elite players are there you're likely to win. Wouldn't make sense to me to have two less skilled Elite players play instead - except they got chances to win, then it's a strategically good move to let them play because they would earn the clan more points than the two players with high Elite points.

[darkmaul]

The idea sounds good but here is the problem :
Imagine you are two cfc and we are 4 roh in the game. You guys usually analyze before picking, who will you analyze if we are 4 in your game?
Will you say we will elite, then there is no point of analyzing since u already chose your scheme
Or will you analyze each possibility?
Because most of the time we make the teams once we know the scheme you pick, we can't make our team if we don't know what scheme you will pick.
There could be some confusing situations or even lame moves from some clans if we have a such point system.

[TheKomodo]

Yeah you got it right Rene.

But if the 2 less skilled Elite players played instead of the 2 best, the points the other clan could win would drop, so they could pick another scheme with more points perhaps.

And if your 2 best Elite players said "Oops, we must go" then it's their loss lol, besides, the other 2 members left, we could pick something against those 2 with the points they have.

darkmaul, yes, we would analyze every possibility, and such a system like I suggested, would stop people basing their pick on if they win or lose the opponents pick and/or what scheme the opponent picks.

Anyway, it's just an idea.

[chakkman]

I really don't get what the benefit of this would be. A clan is a unit and you should make sure you have good overall players and get a strong ration in every scheme. And planning clanners like that will also be very difficult as there are usually always situations where people quit the game, other players come, picks get changed and stuff like that so it will only make things more complicated if you have to re-analyze for every player that joins the games... also it would take away much of the clan's rating magic, like i saw last time we would gain 73 points when we pick bng vs. cfc and only lose like 6 points. That might be also a reason why you would want to change this, dunno. My opinion is when you worked out a high rating for your clan in one specific scheme which is only due to one player you did something wrong because if that player doesn't play you have a problem.

[TheKomodo]

like i saw last time we would gain 73 points when we pick bng vs. cfc and only lose like 6 points. That might be also a reason why you would want to change this, dunno. My opinion is when you worked out a high rating for your clan in one specific scheme which is only due to one player you did something wrong because if that player doesn't play you have a problem.

Yes it is a reason, a big reason, and the main reason with that being other clans getting points they don't deserve, by which I mean, in our case some clans play very very very little BnGs, so they have no rank when we know they are much better than what their rank says, so they shouldn't win so many points against us, they should only win around 40-50 instead of 60-75 lol.

Another way to put it would be, most clans only pick BnG against us when me and OutofOrder are not around as they see it as a golden opportunity for BIG points, now, while I accept the fact that this is the current system, and I respect that, I am still within my rights to feel uneasy about it, I can live with it, at least when we lose points I can go out my way on mission to make those points again, which is kinda fun lol, but it would be nice to put a stop to people playing in such a way.

There are some clans, like TaG/dC and GrW for example, I don't care if they pick BnG if I ain't there, cuz they have been playing alot of BnG against all other clans and I respect that, it's the ones that ONLY pick it against us when Auto or myself is not there that bothers me.

But it doesn't just happen with cFc and BnG, it happens to other clans in other schemes too, and I DO get frustrated seeing other clans raping other clans big points when they don't have the teams that earned those points, especially knowing they would not pick this if those members were actually there.

I don't know if any of you will understand this term, it might just be a British thing, but whenever I see other clans doing this I think "lol, what a bunch of chancers"

But hey, theres nothing you can do if people wanna play like that, we're all having fun

Even if people weren't picking BnG when I ain't there, or other schemes with other clans in a similar way, i'd still think what I suggested would be a more interesting and competitive way to play, but that's just me lol.

Anyway, the rest of cFc are starting to get very good at BnG, so, in a matter of time, we will kickass no matter who plays xD

[Random00]

We will never have a great enough amount of games for every possible combo in every clan, so this system will never come to a point where it is fair.
Worms is just not active enough for such a system.

Komo, just pick different schemes when playing. You're obviously picking too much bng. Its an overall league and if you pick bng like 5 times more then any other clan and win most of your games its no wonder that your bng rating is imbalanced...

[chakkman]

Exactly. And Komo, i find your way of argueing a bit one-way. Your bothered about clans picking bng when you or Auto are not around (of course your opponent clan picks the scheme they get the most points in), but on the other hand you are not bothering about picking bng every time you 2 are around, so the system as it is punishes it with a high bng rating which is exactly what it should do.

Edit: To make it clear, the way it is now cfc's bng rating does not reflect the real bng skills of all cfc members but the one of you and Auto. It's just an example, replace the scheme/clan name with anything else, just can't think of another case that drastic atm. xD For single players, i could think of dibz' and flori's ttrr rating once, they simply totally over played the scheme which is not wise at all...

[SPW]

We will never have a great enough amount of games for every possible combo in every clan, so this system will never come to a point where it is fair.
Worms is just not active enough for such a system.

Komo, just pick different schemes when playing. You're obviously picking too much bng. Its an overall league and if you pick bng like 5 times more then any other clan and win most of your games its no wonder that your bng rating is imbalanced...

Exactly.

In my opinion it doesnt help to make tus more active. For example, Random00 and me are online, and our oppenent are picking ttrr. 1. I still have to play that horrible (my opinion!) scheme and 2. because of Random's high rating at ttrr they still would win about 40 pts. Not 70 pts., like now, but still worth to pick. So nothing really change.

I really have the feeling, that you still just focus at your "problem" about other clans picking bng vs cfc if you are not there. And thats just an egoistic move, and not the first try. You always talking about "bng is just for fun and I dont play for points", but in the end, thats just a damn lie. You do care - and it seems more than a normal player do.

At the end: not a bad idea at all, but it wont help worms, tus or any clan. Thats probably the reason, why Ray and DarKz didnt post it years ago. ;d