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April 27, 2024, 02:04 PM

Author Topic: League scheme change (Aerial)  (Read 2530 times)

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Offline TheKomodo

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2023, 02:22 AM »
I didn't answer you cause when you didn't know what next to ask and make it into a novel, you wrote: "What IS Aerial for you, Sensei!??"

I've asked you multiple times before I even asked THAT specific question and you still ignored it.

Even for the AoA Cup you lied saying you told me stuff you didn't, then after I gave evidence proving it you quickly shut up about it.

As usual, you're making excuses to avoid having a proper conversation and actually using logic to explain these actions or suggested changes to defend your opinions.

You don't like me, fine! I'm not asking you to defend me, I'm asking you to defend your scheme, and so far you haven't.

When people ask me about stuff, regardless if I like them or not I'll still take the time to answer with actual logical reasoning and give real game examples to back it up, explaining why things are the way they are or should be the way I am suggesting or defending things.

You are talking about making a massive change to a League scheme here, it should be your responsibility to back it up but you are using your personal feelings against me as an excuse to put any real effort into backing it up.

I don't like you either Sensei, it's no secret, yet I still treat you with enough respect to answer your questions aimed towards me and discussing this League because I want other people to see the advice and expertise we can offer with our combined experience.

I'm sorry Komo, but sometimes I just don't see a reason continuing conversation with you. If that makes me "not nice to associate with" in your eyes - then I'm sorry again.

To begin with, don't act like you're sorry when you're not, you're trying to save face and nobody cares lol.

You cherry pick the conversations and questions that suit you. You ignore me and others when you can't back up your words, and you always argue with me and insult me when you think you're right, then quickly shutup and flee when you get proven wrong.

If you don't want to defend your reasoning behind this scheme, fair enough, just admit it.

I am challenging you so you can actually show people it's as good as you claim it is, because I don't think it is.

This scheme could be better and that's the only reason why I'm here.

It does not need crates and it does not need to be Bo3 either.

I am asking you to defend your scheme and so far you've failed to do so, and whether you like me or not, other people will see this.

I agree with Kaleu. This topic should be decided based on opinions of people that actually played or are about to play mentioned scheme.

For starters, I have played and watched enough Worms Armageddon, Aerial/Artillery schemes and other video games and competitive events to understand this scheme and how competitively balanced it is as much as the next person.

Do you think it's actually difficult to understand lol? That would be CRAZY! :D

Anyway if this topic should be decided based on opinions of people are about to play mentioned scheme, there would be virtually nobody to actually contribute.

You WERE really active, but you're not anymore, Kaleu isn't anymore, in fact, there are very few players who are actually REALLY active in this game on a competitive level anymore other than Kaos, Team17 and Intermediate.

Also, it shows the lack of respect and knowledge you have for other people in general. Nobody needs to even play something to understand it, it's not rocket science.

You don't need to play or do anything to understand it, you just need to understand it.

If someone knows enough about how weapons and scheme settings work, and has enough experience playing and/or watching competitively in dozens of schemes, you'd be foolish to ignore their advice just because they haven't played as much as you.

There are plenty players in the history of the game and currently active who don't play Aerial yet could get better than you if they did. It doesn't mean their knowledge or your knowledge isn't good enough just because they don't play it as much as you have or aren't currently engaging in Leagues.

You've played more Aerial than me, but I've played and watched more Worms Armageddon than you, and that means... Absolutely NOTHING!

We all have valuable knowledge here but you're the only one unwilling to share.

All you and Kaleu are doing is showing ignorance and a lack of accepting reality by being that selfishly ignorant.

Offline Korydex

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2023, 05:36 AM »
@korydex - were those 991 games of Aerial played with HHC's scheme? Cause that's the one without sudden death. The one we're trying to change atm...
HAL games only. The fact that hysteria and aerial games averaged to the same length in seconds killed me ;D

Offline Sensei

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2023, 03:20 PM »
Even for the AoA Cup you lied saying you told me stuff you didn't, then after I gave evidence proving it you quickly shut up about it.

Won't even read any further. I didn't lie, nor shut up. I explained that when I told you to host SD scheme, I thought you'd realize that I was talking about TUS scheme #2175 (which name is Aerial SD) that exists for 7+ years already. Which I know 1 part of your brain was fully aware, but attention for anything that's not including yourself - is not your forte.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2023, 09:23 PM by Sensei »

Offline TheWalrus

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2023, 03:41 PM »
I'm flipping again, no reason why it shouldn't be Bo1 when considering korydex's statistics.  Also: very unexpected! I thought player1 won more often than not, I'm puzzled as to why that isn't the case.

Offline Sensei

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2023, 04:02 PM »
I'm flipping again, no reason why it shouldn't be Bo1 when considering korydex's statistics.

Keep in mind Korydex's stats were played with different scheme (no sudden death = longer games)

Offline TheKomodo

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2023, 04:03 PM »
Won't even read any further. I didn't lie, nor shut up. I explained that when I told you to host SD scheme, I thought you'd realize that I was talking about TUS scheme #2175 (which name is Aerial SD) that exists for 7+ years already. Which I know 1 part of your brain was fully aware, but attention for anything that's not including yourself - is not your forte.

I'm going to prove you wrong one more time, with actual facts, not assumptions, no guesses but proof of what actually happened, using YOUR OWN WORDS!

This whole thing started when I hosted the first AoA Cup and the ONLY post you made in the entire thread there was:

If there's gonna be changes in Aerial scheme (more competitive one with sudden death, 3sec mines etc.) let us know. I'd like to join.

One of the best medals I've seen, btw. Gj

Your words are a suggestion to change an Aerial scheme, not use a specific scheme.

If you wanted me to use THAT specific scheme you should have specified THAT specific scheme and I'd have considered it!

Then I actually edited the scheme based on YOUR suggestion by adding sudden death and 3s mines!

I messaged you in Discord to inform you of these changes, then you told me you couldn't play anyway.

Fair enough, there was NO problem here whatsoever.

UNTIL...

I hosted AoA #2 and you said:

I suggested you to use the scheme that's on TUS since 2016.

You rather made your "K" variant and left uzi,mortars and petrols inside, while talking about competitivity..

You did NOT suggest me to use the specific scheme that's on TUS since 2016 and you know it!

Hence, it's a lie!

If you were unaware that what you were saying is not true, then it's at the very least a confabulation on your part.

Also, whether you even realize it or not, you even ADMITTED to lying/confabulation:

When I said "sd scheme", I obviously guessed you will figure out there's one already made.Hence the discord conversation.


You know what the funny thing is... I took the specific advice you actually gave on board and made those changes mostly just to make YOU happy in the hope you would join the event.

I tried to do something nice for YOU SPECIFICALLY, to extend an arm of friendship in a manner of speaking to get you involved in the Cup, and you went on to make subtle digs at me saying it's a scheme for noobs and we're going backwards etc...

You could have use logic, evidence, examples, gameplay footage etc to try and convince me why your scheme is superior, but nope, you'd rather just insult me instead.

You're doing the same thing here Sensei, you won't defend your scheme.

Offline Senator

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2023, 05:17 PM »
Keep in mind Korydex's stats were played with different scheme (no sudden death = longer games)

Reportedly SD helps with comebacks so stats shouldn't be any different?

Sudden Death - I feel sudden death is another needed change because of random placements and the proclivity of Bo3 matchups in this scheme.  Sudden death seeks to equal the playing field, if you have bad opening positions and are behind going into SD, you have a chance to win by plopping worms.  This assures no lead given to a player because of good spawns is insurmountable going into the late game.  Also, it shortens boring long games where both players are hiding and unwilling to be aggressive, thus ending a standoff. 

Offline Sensei

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2023, 05:23 PM »
Thx for bringing that thread back, Senator. Know I have been explaining Aerial changes multiple times in multiple posts over the years. Maybe even Komo can find some answers there. Wouldn't bet on it, though. :)

Playing time shouldn't be different, but gameplay would be a lot better with bo3 + sudden death compared to bo1 without sudden death.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2023, 05:31 PM by Sensei »

Offline TheKomodo

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2023, 05:31 PM »
gameplay would be a lot better with bo3 + sudden death.

Why?

Define "better" and also define who it's better for while you're at it please.

Offline MonkeyIsland

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2024, 06:14 AM »
For the next season of Allround I'm gonna put this new aerial scheme to test. In worst case scenario we'll revert back. Hopefully enough games will be played on it to compare.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2024, 07:58 AM by MonkeyIsland »
Due to massive misunderstandings: MonkeyIsland refers to an island not a monkey. I would be a monkey, if my name was IslandMonkey meaning a monkey who is or lives on an island. MonkeyIsland is an island which is related to monkeys. Also there's been a legend around saying MonkeyIsland is a game. So please, think of me as an island or a game.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2024, 07:07 AM »
New season of Free league has started and I'm gonna put this new aerial scheme to test. In worst case scenario we'll revert back. Hopefully enough games will be played on it.

Free League? It's a main scheme though.

Can you clarify please?

Offline MonkeyIsland

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2024, 07:59 AM »
Sorry my bad. I meant for the next season of Allround. (I was tweaking Free league and I had a brain lag. Edited my post)
Due to massive misunderstandings: MonkeyIsland refers to an island not a monkey. I would be a monkey, if my name was IslandMonkey meaning a monkey who is or lives on an island. MonkeyIsland is an island which is related to monkeys. Also there's been a legend around saying MonkeyIsland is a game. So please, think of me as an island or a game.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2024, 08:20 AM »
Sorry my bad. I meant for the next season of Allround. (I was tweaking Free league and I had a brain lag. Edited my post)

Happens to the best of us! Sounds like something IslandMonkey would do! :P

Thanks for clarifying, I was confused lol.

Offline Senator

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #58 on: February 05, 2024, 08:39 PM »
We added this rule to Intermediate which is also Bo3:

You can demand Bo1 but in that case the opponent has the right to start.

Having that rule would be a bit weird though cos there's no significant first turn advantage according to the statistics.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #59 on: February 05, 2024, 08:55 PM »
That's actually not a bad idea Senator! Nice!