The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Leagues => Leagues General => Topic started by: avirex on July 16, 2010, 10:40 PM
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13 second turn time
5 second retreat
4 star zook power (as far as i know it does 51 damage****)
standard mines, and nades
all weapons available first turn.
1 instant mine on map (just to add some spice- optional)
23hp health crates
No cr8 rules!! NONE... ZILCH :D
****reason for the power up zooks is because in order to pile, u need to zook or nade, retreat time is not longer then mine fuse anymore.
this scheme is based 100% on skill, and strategy.. now instead of getting "crate raped" you have the option to leave your crate and just attack your enemy..
regardless of no crate rules, you will still want to get your crate first, because retreat time is only 5 seconds, if u do happen to make it to the crate after an attack with your retreat time, chances are your hide will be very weak...
a smart tactic sometimes can be to leave the hard crate, hit your enemy, and hide slightly closer to the crate you left behind... this will tempt your enemy to either go for the cr8 with his turn time, or his retreat time.. resulting in either miss attack, or leaving himself open for you to attack him next...or, the best possible scenario is they go for the crate with their retreat time, miss the cr8, have no hide, and now have lead you right to crate :)
please, people try the sets before you come here and disagree with them, and say "roper scheme is fine".. im hosting a w2rope cup, i encourage all u f@#!ers to join...
i really think something needs to be done about the crate rules, it makes roper games consist of luck, and we all know rope games should be consisting of SKILL and skill only... not to mention, it makes no sense what so ever to make a rule that your enemy has to collect something you want... thats just silly, i encourage you all to leave me crates!! please do!!
so anyway, join me w2cup, u can download the scheme there.. hope you will all enjoy.. please, like i said dont comment on it until you have tried the scheme... once u have tried it, post your opinions, and feedback.. THNKS
ps: i dont expect this scheme to replace the current roper scheme (although down the road it may) but i would eventually like to see it in TUS scheme... the person/clan that picks roper game as their pick can have the option of the 2 schemes... im confident that in time w2rope scheme will be the favorite... thnkz again, see you in the cup bitchz
**the cup has to be approved by mods, u can download the scheme in the scheme section Scheme ID: 303
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100% agree with avi. I always thought the roper scheme was ridiculous... crates can really make someone losing get a big break and screw over the better player... this w2 scheme is absolute skill... I've played it many times with avi, and I know a lot of other wormers out there prefer this scheme over the current one because this scheme is tactics in skill.... tactics in roper?? how can this be?? with this scheme it is possible! Like avi said, it is best if you do collect the crates and attack, but if you get a shitty crate, it is more tactical to just hit your opponent and not get the crate... with 13 second turn times, you have to think and decide if you are SKILLED enough to get the crate AND attack. The time to change is now! please try this scheme and I bet you, if you use your human logic and reason, you will find this scheme to be a better assessment of your roping skills and knowledge.
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ye this scheme better. try it guys ^^ and make it a scheme at tus. If wxw and t17 are schemes why not this? XD
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what, no destructable land?
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lol... that plan was not to completely mimik worm2 rope scheme... as much as i would like to! haha..
its just to eliminate w:a crate b4 attack rule...
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I support.
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post some replays of the scheme here avi pls
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Sounds interesting, guess I'll give it a try.
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+1
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not bad :)....
here the raplay nail... :)
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Angus, I watched your replay but you guys were still pretty much playing like it was a normal roper... the point of the scheme is to prevent crate rape luck. When you have a crate that is far away, you shouldn't try to get it, especially if you are leading... it is better to leave the crate and attack your opponent... this way, you get the important hit, the crate luck didn't rape you... if your opponent wants to get the far crate next turn, let him.. but he probably won't be able to attack ;)
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yeah... u guys played it as if cr8 rules were still in effect... lol..
2marrow either me and shyguy, or me and dibz will have a game so u guyz can see how its sposed to be done...
nvm, me and shy just had a game... heres the replay, watch and learn.
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I have never tried this scheme, and im not the best roper exactly, so for me its the same basically.. BUUUT imo the "crate raped" thing is sometimes a good thing for this game. I mean, if not the best player will win like 90% no matter what. I mean its exciting 2 know that eventho ur a worse player u still have a chance. AAANNND if u got a bad start, u wont lose 100% cause anything can happen. I mean if u get a bad start, u most likely have v small odds getting back in the game with this style.
Anyways, this is NOT a "no ffs dont change roper" at all :)
Btw, i think in normal roper the w2w in sd should be forced each round tho, i really hate that some ppl just wait for the other one 2 fail.. :)
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Sounds interesting, guess I'll give it a try.
PS: D'oh ! Exactly what I was going to write (except for the "guess").
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im not even sure what to say... you have me speachless, that you are saying its good for the underskilled player to have a chance at winning....
but either way, thats why i say that whoever picks rope scheme, can have their option to either set... but as i said, i have a strong feeling (and hope) that in time w2rope setting will be the favorite, and used majority of the time... once people give it a try, they will see!
and yes uber, i agree with you... i had that argument years ago.. its not fair at all in w2w sd that someone does not go w2w everytime, no matter what... the w2w is taking place of getting cr8... u would not leave the cr8 behind under any circumstances, so u should also have to go w2w no matter the circumstance... AGREED
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I have never tried this scheme, and im not the best roper exactly, so for me its the same basically.. BUUUT imo the "crate raped" thing is sometimes a good thing for this game. I mean, if not the best player will win like 90% no matter what. I mean its exciting 2 know that eventho ur a worse player u still have a chance. AAANNND if u got a bad start, u wont lose 100% cause anything can happen. I mean if u get a bad start, u most likely have v small odds getting back in the game with this style.
Anyways, this is NOT a "no ffs dont change roper" at all :)
Btw, i think in normal roper the w2w in sd should be forced each round tho, i really hate that some ppl just wait for the other one 2 fail.. :)
But uber, the lesser player always has a chance to win if the more skilled player does a major f@#! up.. so there is the chance for a lesser player to win... why pad f@#! ups with chances of getting shitty crates on top of it? This gets rid of the unnecessary luck factor and adds in tactics and real skill
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I am really interested in this scheme and I will try it, but I don't think it will take over the normal scheme.
Besides it's not the scheme thats wrong with ropers, people are only being crate raped because they are using ridiculously hard maps these days, the old style maps used to never have crate rape, like the maps I host with, hard crates, although hard, are very possible to at least collect and hit with a 1s/2s grenade or something, I don't know who 1st thought of making these ridiculously tight and high maps but it's stupid, it doesn't present true skill and never will thanks to the factor of crate rape...
When people see my maps they are like "Aaah this map sucks" but lol, not it doesn't suck back in the day they would be great, my maps are perfectly created for the skilled roper, if you actually think of it, roping on my maps isn't even too easy, yeah it's easier than most peoples because it isn't practically touching the roof or the sides, but it presents true skill.
I do like your idea Avi, but I wouldn't use it to replace the current scheme and it's not the scheme thats wrong, it's the maps, anyone with common sense and has been around for longer than only 5 years will know this is right and see what I mean, even if say "I don't like Komo so I won't even listen to him", I think your scheme will be good, as a 2nd choice of roper scheme, like just to make it more interesting, but I don't know if it should count to the same Standings or make a seperate scheme of it.
People started making these silly maps because more and more people started to tap fast and think that they have advantage over someone who can't tap fast, whether you believe this to be true or not does not matter, but does not relieve the fact that i've seen players get beat that are much better, because of these maps and their unlucky crates.
Something needs to be done about this, because not just is it frustrating to lose games because of crate rape, if you think about it, it can, and does cause people to fall out, some people who are friends, sometimes start arguements with each other because of a bad game, I am not saying this will solve that, but it will help a little if the scheme is more skill based and not luck.
And I had an idea a while back and never bothered to mention it, but here it is:
Let's go back to oldschool roper maps, you all know what i'm talking about, and if you don't i'll show you, but here's the perk, people will now say, blah blah 1st shot will win, well no, if you really want it to be a fair and true game then make it so the person who gets the 1st turn does NOT collect the crate, they instead w2w and THEN attack, but then the 2nd player gets 2 crates and attacks, then it's playing normal.
I have played several ropers like this, and imo it is better than the w2 rope scheme.
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the person who gets the 1st turn does NOT collect the crate, they instead w2w and THEN attack
There the 2nd player gets the advantage ~(-47)+20+20: as if the second player started.
Anyway it's not needed. On a easy map, the difference will occur in the perfection of the shots.
And as I remember, even on Fabrousse maps, there was hard crates, but not as hard on some other maps.
But some Mablak's ones are really good for Proper, but reserved to Pro Roper (as the scheme used to be called).
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komo, i dont agree with you at all... the solution is not go downgrade the maps we play on, but to upgrade the settings... i have to go off to work, but when i get back i will get deeper into why you r wrong, and suck cock :D see ya
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it would be cool if there would be 2 roper shemes in tus , the standart one and the w2 one.
and maybe flyshoppa too =)
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Abs, That's wrong, the 1st player will still be ahead after his 2nd turn.
Avi, you can't even rope on hard maps, I'm better than you on harder maps and even I suck, so even with your settings someone with better crates still does have a better chance, besides w2 scheme is 12 seconds not 13.
I'm telling you, the best solution is my idea lol
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Btw, i think in normal roper the w2w in sd should be forced each round tho, i really hate that some ppl just wait for the other one 2 fail.. :)
yep, failing to w2w in SD should result in a skip. What happens if someone looses their turn before they manage to w2w tho? Could be abused that way
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all of u knows that is POSSIBLE to go up, to another side of map down, go back and attack! but u should be fast as wind lmao!! so u seems like just searching to make esier roper scheme and nothing more... if u cant trust me ask any pro roper that is possible!
seems like u just scared to death of loosing to lucky noobs that have crates closer than ur crates haha!
if u ask, what about pro vs pro? damn what about pro vs pro in t17?!! lets remove crates from t17 lmao!
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I watched dibz and avirex last night and totaly support this scheme. Gl dude
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Angus, I watched your replay but you guys were still pretty much playing like it was a normal roper... the point of the scheme is to prevent crate rape luck. When you have a crate that is far away, you shouldn't try to get it, especially if you are leading... it is better to leave the crate and attack your opponent... this way, you get the important hit, the crate luck didn't rape you... if your opponent wants to get the far crate next turn, let him.. but he probably won't be able to attack ;)
ahhh then, no cba 8)
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cap letters represent my thoughts, sorry for caps, did not see i can do bold letters until the end :D hahah
I am really interested in this scheme and I will try it, but I don't think it will take over the normal scheme.
IM GLAD YOUR INTERESTED, BUT DONT FORM AN OPINION, UNTIL U HAVE WATCH MINE AND SHYGUYS REPLAY COMPLETE, AND ALSO TRIED THE SCHEME FOR YOURSELF.
Besides it's not the scheme thats wrong with ropers, people are only being crate raped because they are using ridiculously hard maps these days, the old style maps used to never have crate rape, like the maps I host with, hard crates, although hard, are very possible to at least collect and hit with a 1s/2s grenade or something, I don't know who 1st thought of making these ridiculously tight and high maps but it's stupid, it doesn't present true skill and never will thanks to the factor of crate rape...
OK, SO YOUR SAYING THAT EVERYONE SHOULD PLAY ON BORING, EASY, NEWB MAPS... SO THAT EVERY CR8 IS REACHABLE, BUT SOME HARDER THEN OTHERS? IF THAT IS WHAT YOU THINK THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM IS, I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU AT ALL.
When people see my maps they are like "Aaah this map sucks" but lol, not it doesn't suck back in the day they would be great, my maps are perfectly created for the skilled roper, if you actually think of it, roping on my maps isn't even too easy, yeah it's easier than most peoples because it isn't practically touching the roof or the sides, but it presents true skill.
ROPING ON A VERY SHORT, HARDLY ANY LAND, WIDE OPEN MAP DOES NOT PRESENT TRUE SKILL, AND WHEN PEOPLE SAY "AAAH THIS MAP SUCKS" ITS BECAUSE IT KINDA DOES :(
I do like your idea Avi, but I wouldn't use it to replace the current scheme and it's not the scheme thats wrong, it's the maps, anyone with common sense and has been around for longer than only 5 years will know this is right and see what I mean, even if say "I don't like Komo so I won't even listen to him", I think your scheme will be good, as a 2nd choice of roper scheme, like just to make it more interesting, but I don't know if it should count to the same Standings or make a seperate scheme of it.
THANKS YOU FOR LIKING MY IDEA.. AND IM NOT TRYING TO REPLACE THE CURRENT ROPE SCHEME, JUST GIVING PEOPLE THE OPTION OF THE 2 SETTINGS (AS I SAID, I THINK THIS SETTING WILL TAKE FAVORITE SOON ENOUGH) AND I THINK JUST THE OPPOSITE, ANYONE WITH COMMON SENSE WILL SEE MY SETTINGS ARE BETTER, AND MORE SKILLFULL, AND TACTICAL... AND I HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR FAR MOTH THEN 5 YEARS, AND A ROPER SINCE W2, BEFORE W:A WAS EVEN THOUGHT OF... IM NOT TRYING TO BRAG ABOUT MY OLDSCHOOLNESS, BUT BACK IN THOSE DAYS THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT WERE AROUND THAT STILL PLAY TODAY WAS ME, IRWLZ AND DUB-C (ALTHOUGH IRWLZ HAS BEEN MIA FOR A WHILE NOW)
NOW FOR U TO SAY U DONT THINK IT SHOULD COUND THE SAME AS THE CURRENT ROPE SCHEME IS YOUR OPINION, AND I RESPECT IT.. SURE..... BUT U HAVE NOT EVEN RESPECTED MY OPINION ENOUGH TO GIVE THE SCHEME A TRY BEFORE YOU FORMED AN OPINION OF YOUR OWN... THATS PRETTY SHITTY..
People started making these silly maps because more and more people started to tap fast and think that they have advantage over someone who can't tap fast, whether you believe this to be true or not does not matter, but does not relieve the fact that i've seen players get beat that are much better, because of these maps and their unlucky crates.
GOOD POINT!! SO LETS MAKE IT SO THE MORE SKILLFULL PLAYER WINS, REGARDLESS OF MAP (EASY LIKE YOURS, OR HARD LIKE MABLAKS) WILL WIN THE GAME!! THATS WHAT MY SETTINGS OFFER!!
Something needs to be done about this, because not just is it frustrating to lose games because of crate rape, if you think about it, it can, and does cause people to fall out, some people who are friends, sometimes start arguements with each other because of a bad game, I am not saying this will solve that, but it will help a little if the scheme is more skill based and not luck.
SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE!! EXACTLY, THATS WHY ME AND SHYGUY ARE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, SO PLEASE.. TRY THE SETTINGS A COUPLE TIMES BEFORE YOU FORM AN OPINION, AND GO AGAINST IT IN ANYWAY. THANKS
And I had an idea a while back and never bothered to mention it, but here it is:
Let's go back to oldschool roper maps, you all know what i'm talking about, and if you don't i'll show you, but here's the perk, people will now say, blah blah 1st shot will win, well no, if you really want it to be a fair and true game then make it so the person who gets the 1st turn does NOT collect the crate, they instead w2w and THEN attack, but then the 2nd player gets 2 crates and attacks, then it's playing normal.
LIKE ABNAX SEZ.... IF BOTH START AT SAY 200... SECOND PLAYER (ASSUMING 1ST PLAYER MAKES A PERFECT ZOOK) HAS 153... NOW HE GETS 2 CR8S AND AN ATTACK... 2ND PLAYERS STARTS GAME WITH 193 AND IF MADE A PERFECT ZOOK, 1ST PLAYERS STARTS WITH 153.. HOW IS THAT FAIR IN ANYWAY??
AND DOES NOT MEAN EXACTLY THAT 2ND PLAYER WILL WIN, BUT IF BOTH PLAY PERFECT GAMES, YES... SECOND PLAYER WINS... THATS NOT A GOOD SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM, SORRY KOMO.
I have played several ropers like this, and imo it is better than the w2 rope scheme.
AGAIN, U HAVE NOT GAVE THE SCHEME A CHANCE, BEFORE U FORMED YOUR OPINION, IM DISSAPOINTED, I THOUGHT YOU OF ALL PEOPLE WOULD HAVE.
and komo, u are not better then me in roper.. lol, not at all... in fact, ur not better then me in any scheme cept bng.. im kinda annoyed u keep trying to say it, maybe we need to have a friendly toe to toe battle with all schemes, see who truly is the top dog.
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again, the scheme can be downloaded in TUS scheme inbox, ID# 303
and heres the replay again.. everyone plz watch. :p
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i liked that scheme, lets see if from now on, i have more sucess playing roper huahua.
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Abs, That's wrong, the 1st player will still be ahead after his 2nd turn.
Avi, you can't even rope on hard maps, I'm better than you on harder maps and even I suck, so even with your settings someone with better crates still does have a better chance, besides w2 scheme is 12 seconds not 13.
I'm telling you, the best solution is my idea lol
i did not just want to argue with you, with no facts.... (like your doing) so i watched the replay me and shy did, and tallied the cr8s... i made a tally of the impossible cr8s, and a tally of the questionable cr8s... meaning, cr8s that with 13 seconds was not possible, but with 15seconds, very hard, but hittable so i marked as questionable......
NOTE: i based my tallies on the cr8 that dropped b4 each turn (not what was on map) and based on where you were at start, and where the enemy was...
EXAMPLE: i did not count shyguys very first cr8 as impossible, or questionable.. i feel where he started from, he would have got the cr8 and made the hit, but he chose a solid zook shot for 51 instead, and did not risk the cr8 at all... maybe a smart play? thats for you to decide... anyways, heres what i came up with
in total, i had 13 impossible cr8s, and 1 questionable... shyguy had 5 impossible cr8s and 2 questionable...
at about 8 minutes into the game, i had 6 impossible cr8s, and 1 questionable, shyguy had 2 impossible cr8s and 2 questionable.. but yet, i was winning 263-209
at 12 minutes into the game, i have a wopping 9 crates that were impossible, and 1 questionable, and shy still only 2-2... yet the score was just about tied, me having 172, and shyguy having 174
at roughly 13:30 shy came and attacked me, leaving his cr8 behind.. my health was 129 to shyguys impressive 199.. but i was able to not only get my cr8, but also the one he left behind on my turn, and still skillfully managed to attack.. the score then went to 179-157, my lead! (not to mention at this point the tally is 10 impossible and 1 questionable for me, and still 2 and 2 for shy)
by the end of the game i had 13 impossible, and 1 questionable.. and shy had 5 impossible and 2 questionable, it was not until i gave myself 20 FD second to last turn, and totally blew my last turn killing myself was the game over... there were plenty of cr8s on the map for me to retreive and hide, if i had not fallen there was plenty of possibility for me to have won... therefor shy was the better skilled player of this match, cr8s had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome.
now ask yourself this... in a standard rope scheme of me getting 13 impossible cr8s, and shy getting 5... who do u think would have won??? the answer is obvious, i rest my case! the people have spoken!
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Thanks for the replay, getting a better picture now... although i must say that i don't really see the decrease of crate luck in this scheme, u still can get some pretty lucky crates and be able to attack + grab a crate frequently while ur opponent gets hard crates. Edit: Of course you always can interspere a turn in which you pick up the left alone crates, seems to me more like a synthetic extension of the game time though. This would imo more even out the difference in skill between 2 players than to profit the better player.... From what i see is that it'll add some tactical elements which the actual roper scheme doesn't have. Gotta get used to the not being able to hide properly with 5 sec retreat time tho also. :(
Summary for me: Looks interesting but i guess i need to play a few games to judge if it's rly superior to the "standard" roper scheme...
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Thanks for the replay, getting a better picture now... although i must say that i don't really see the decrease of crate luck in this scheme, u still can get some pretty lucky crates and be able to attack + grab a crate frequently while ur opponent gets hard crates. Edit: Of course you always can interspere a turn in which you pick up the left alone crates, seems to me more like a synthetic extension of the game time though. This would imo more even out the difference in skill between 2 players than to profit the better player.... From what i see is that it'll add some tactical elements which the actual roper scheme doesn't have. Gotta get used to the not being able to hide properly with 5 sec retreat time tho also. :(
Summary for me: Looks interesting but i guess i need to play a few games to judge if it's rly superior to the "standard" roper scheme...
chakk, as you see in the game with avi and I, avi got a lot more harder crates than I did.. avi wrote the stats in his last post... yet he still kept the game close and tight due to tactics... you can lure someone by hiding closer to the far crate, and they might try to take it and fail, and then you get 2 crates... there are a lot of tactics you can use...
EDIT: I shall also ask the people of worms this... In the league scheme now, you can get a crate on the far side of the map, impossible to rope even with perfect roping and every rope connection the best, get the crate, and attack. Why, I ask, do you accept a scheme where you have a chance to not be able to attack at all depending on where the game engine decides to put the crate? How does anyone see this as good? Stop letting the game engine decide the outcome of the game!
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Avi I have played this scheme before so don't assume I haven't.
I'll reply later.
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EDIT: I shall also ask the people of worms this... In the league scheme now, you can get a crate on the far side of the map, impossible to rope even with perfect roping and every rope connection the best, get the crate, and attack. Why, I ask, do you accept a scheme where you have a chance to not be able to attack at all depending on where the game engine decides to put the crate? How does anyone see this as good? Stop letting the game engine decide the outcome of the game!
Good point, but that would be valid for most schemes actually. I think of being able to reach an otherwise unreachable worm in elite with max strong wind or being able to knock a worm out of his hide, maybe even being able to knock it towards a barrel if a crate falls right beside you in shoppa. Fact is people will always complain about luck involved may the scheme be oh so perfect.
Well as i already said i need to play some games with this scheme to see what it's like. Don't see a reason why it couldn't co-exist with the normal roper scheme though, another rope scheme would only be a benefit for the league. :) Especially with all those crappy hysteria picks nowadays... :P
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Agreed (agreeing on people picking hysteria part)! And trust me, when you play w2 roper and understand it, it is so much funner than regular roper.
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I like this new scheme, but didn't the replay of avi and shyguy last a bit long? you can not attack and collect 2 crates instead, you gain +50. That's 1 point lesser than your opponent perfect zook.
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It lasted a while because it was somewhat intense! :D Avi and I talked about the + 50 thing you talk about Monkey... but we agreed it isn't a problem. It is much better to get 1 crate and attack than to just go for the two crates for 50. 1 crate and attack = 25 + 47 or so in health difference... getting 2 crates would give you + 50, but the other worm would still get a 22 or so hp difference, assuming he can get a crate and attack (when you go for 2 crates, with 13 seconds with 5 sec retreat time, your hide will usually be bad, so it is easy for someone to get crate and attack after).
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I like this scheme, it's a nice variation to the classical WA Roper.
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rofl, this scheme is like a shopper, avirex wanted manipulate doH's pick and tried to make us play this shit w2 scheme, we didnt so they pik shopa hieuheuhe
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no crash, we asked if we could make our pick w2roper, if u would agree (dibz would have been more then happy to have played it)
nothing to do with your pick.. your so annoying, its hard to believe ur smited worth 500 lol!
besides crash, the funny part is not that we picked shoppa! its that we played it on a randomly generated (on the spot) cavern map!! hahahhahahahhaha im still laughing about that!! for the longest time i just could not picture playing shoppa on anything but ur city shoppa map, lololololol but then i just got that crazy lol idea, and im still loling!! lol!
monkeyisland: these sets r not finalized... we can change anything, like shy said we have talked about that, but decided maybe its not a problem, but its still up for debate, also we are trying to decide if it should be 13 seconds, or 12... maybe after the scheme has had enough publicity we can take a poll... and the game lasted 18 minutes... i dont think thats long tbh, in an elite sudden death would only just be starting... and besides, that game only lasted long because of the very hard map... we used the map to show that even on hard map, and hard crates, the win will go to the one who deserves it, not to the one who got the better crates.
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I'm not into roping much but I liked it.. Seems to me that it's more tactical (brain usage) and that skills are "taking a bigger part" here than in plain roper..
Not sure if U need a "first shot zook" rule here..
But avi, don't U know that original w2 roper had dyna... :D :P
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yeah, shy had talked about taking out the zook first turn rule... i think i will do that!!
and lol.. w2 had anything you wanted... i used clusters as nade, and the clusters did 0 damage, it was just a cool effect, and dynos as mines, but powered down to mine damage (in w2 u could set the exact damage of each weap right down to the HP)
for my power weaps i liked a cow, and even a super sheep... for that really hard cr8 on a map one time.... .. ..... hmmmm that actually gives me an idea.. 1 SS in the sets powered down 1! haha im going to try this!!
but anyway, yeah in w2 what they did was the higher ranked playing of the league has rights to host, he would host.. and no matter how bizarre n crazy his sets were.. he would just tell the other guy, and they play...
so u would see suttin like ... zook 55, health 25, 1 dyno, 1 sheep, 1 instant mine on map, FD 100, ready? gl hf!
ok off to gives this SS a try :D
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I support this idea :D
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i just tried with a SS.. it does add another element of tactic to the game... but im not sure if i like it... im leaving it out for now. but ill update: all weaps first turn, health cr8s 23.
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ok, so monkeyisland... what steps do i need to take in order to get this scheme into the league??
maybe we should take a poll if people want it to represent a complete different scheme, or just to be another option to the "rope" scheme...
i think enough people are supportive of this scheme that we can move on to the next step, do u agree??
and can som1 please open my damn w2rope cup? its been about 3-4 days :\
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yea open it plz! dont be slack!
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Open up a poll, fair enough. About the cup thing: i think there are too many unfinished cups to start another one...
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But chakk with a roper cup, more people will be motivated to play espeically since this is w2 style (Not been done before in wa)
N most of the cups at the moment aren't very popular like jetpack race/ Ghost knocking rofl XD!
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Yeah, just wanted to say that probably the mods wont start another cup now. :) The cups simply take too long with extended deadlines and stuff...
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but if its avis cups his rulez rite? they dont need to have much to do with it. lol. just confirm it:P so we can get it onnnnnnnnn the wayyyyyyyyyyy
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mods plz ! just this one more cup !
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yah thats kinda bullshit to deny me of my cup, when im tying to start a new scheme, just cuz other retarded schemes are not finished, like jetpack or boomrace.. lol... wtf? start my cup plz, serious
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avi you better show more respect for others schemes too, jetpack race and boomrace are awesome, well you know everything is too relative, ask Einstein, and one more thing, if you had a bit more of jesus`s soul in ur heart u`d act diferent. peace and love. xDDDDDDDDD
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Worm Olympics starts in four days, can`t the cup wait til it`s finished? I`m sure it`ll be alot more popular then :D
Edit: by the way, I love the idea avi <3
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Omg, worms olympics lol, a massive 1-2 month noobfest lol.
Plus it's totally unfair, how can countrys actually compete when some countrys have alot more playrs than others lol.
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w2rope cup is open!! come eeverybodyyy!! ;D u tooo crazy, join up! id love to have u in it, even tho u never finished a single cup u join :D
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Needs higher fd.
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Omg, worms olympics lol, a massive 1-2 month noobfest lol.
Plus it's totally unfair, how can countrys actually compete when some countrys have alot more playrs than others lol.
It doesn`t last so long this summer, and hopefully there will be a bit more classic schemes hosted then last olympics. I`m gonna host some myself atleast ;p Not much to do about the countrystats Komo, but you can always go for Gold in Single or help your clan!
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Needs higher fd.
fd is at the highest setting w:a allows lol
edit: join the cup dub!! u too crazy!! 8===D
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w2rope cup is open!! come eeverybodyyy!! ;D u tooo crazy, join up! id love to have u in it, even tho u never finished a single cup u join :D
Lol shut up avi, the only cups I don`t finish are the ones I don`t win, in other words the cups I`m knocked out in :P
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fd is at the highest setting w:a allows lol
Check this replay then avi. You can set higher FD with SchemeEddy (http://worms2d.info/SchemeEddy). :P
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are we ever going to get this scheme into TUS league? im really sick of playing w:a roper, its boring, and lucky... what steps do i have to take to get w2rope into the league? it seems plenty of people like it, whats the hold up? MonkeyI, talk to me man.. talk to me!! :p
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I added a poll. Lets see :)
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\m/ add it! :D
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everyone that has actually tried this scheme, sez its better then regular roper, i would imagine that people voting no, are the ones who have not even tried it...
even if the no vote overtakes the yes, id like people to post valid reasons why its gettin no votes...
i dont think w2w or shoppa should be schemes, but they are... me and alot of people will be pretty upset if this does not come to tus.. but i guess we will just have to wait and see.
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Id wait a bit longer before making a poll, you've really rushed into this whole w2rope thing.
Im not saying I dont like it or that it shouldnt be added, but id give people time to play it for a while before you rush into making a poll, it will be better for the sheme that way!
+ ah MI added the poll, even still, your more likely to get yes votes once the scheme becomes more familliar.
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no1 is even giving it a try... the people that have played more then 1 game of this scheme see the difference, and want the scheme.. i have no yet had anyone that actually played the scheme with me, not say its more tactics involved, and just an all around better scheme....
80% of the people voting no, have not played the scheme im sure, the other 20% of the people are scared they may never win another roper match if this scheme comes to tus, cuz then they wont be able to rely on cr8 luck...
thats my honest opinion..
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also, monkeyisland, shyguy just made a good point....
you should open a thread where each person gets 1 post... the post is their vote... and they make their vote, and give a small explanation, no offense but who the hell is CMV in the shoutbox, what does his vote count for?...
people who have not tried the scheme should not vote... this is frustrating
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Yeah, or maybe like a board of respected and skilled wormers without a biased opinion voting... Everyone who has actually analyzed the scheme and given it a chance has said it should coexist with the current scheme... annoying how we got nothing but positive feedback in this thread yet it still gets all these nos by people who have been hiding the whole time and probably haven't tried the scheme...
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yeh exactly, they havent played the scheme so they're gonna vote no.
If you wait a few weeks, or a couple of months, MANY more people will have played the scheme and the scheme will be more familliar to everyone. Then your far more likely to get yes votes when you make another poll. Hysteria was around for a good six months or so before it became a league scheme, time needs to be given for any new scheme for it to properly sink in.
I understand its frustrating, its angry that people dont "get" the scheme like people who voted yes do. But its been not even 2 weeks since you introduced this scheme to the majority of the public, it'll take more than 2 weeks for a majority of wormers to play and form a valid decision on the scheme. If the scheme works as well as you know it does then there should be no problem with it being accepted and enjoyed by the majority of the community.
THEN is the time consider a poll for it to become a league scheme, not now. Its really too soon when you consider the majority of players won't have even seen this thread let alone played the scheme! Id remove the poll, let the scheme sink in and then re-open it when and if its popularity increases. Otherwise it looks like its not gonna be voted in considering the results at the moment, and the people who want it in will be frustrated. Its not losing be an overhwhelming majoirty, so im sure if you close the poll and re open it in a few weeks, itll be voted in.
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well... lets see how the poll does still... im sure the people in w2rope cup all want it voted yes... theres 20 in the cup, and we have not reached those votes yet.... im confident we can reach 50/50... and if thats the case, it should be accepted imho...
i gave more then enough time for people to try the scheme, i made the scheme, i uploaded the scheme, i had people dl the scheme, i made a cup, i posted replays, many people gave positive feedback...
if people have no tried it yet, its their problem, and very unfair they vote no without trying.... im still confident tho!.. i hold my head high!
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we dont wanna wait tho :/ no1 likes waiting :/
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And I cant believe how many voted no! come out of the bushes who are u if u voted no post here and reasons, ye.
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i gave more then enough time for people to try the scheme, i made the scheme, i uploaded the scheme, i had people dl the scheme, i made a cup, i posted replays, many people gave positive feedback...
you really cant expect everyone to try this scheme in the 2 weeks since you made this topic, its gonna take alot longer than that! Most wormers wont have even read this topic, let alone tried the scheme in the two weeks since you posted it!
You can always make another poll later once the schemes become more familliar I guess, and its quite close now anyway. I guarantee you though, you'll get FAR more yes votes in a couple moths time when everyones played it. As I keep saying this threads been here for 2 weeks... its obvious that not everyone is going to play it within that period.
I understand you've had great feedback from loads of people and the scheme may turn out to be a great addition to the league, but you need to wait!!! You need to be patient... the first ever w2rope cup isnt even over yet... you gotta SLOOOW it down man, its in your best intrests to slow down and give the scheme time to settle in.
Dont forget some people are gonna vote no simply to smite you or other people currently "associated" with the scheme. Annoying, but its gonna happen!
+++ >I just checked the scheme downloads page, your scheme has only been downloaded 25 times... that says it all really. You cant expect everyone to have tried this scheme in the TWO weeks since you made it public. It looks like the majority of people who have voted yes so far, are the people who you have personally shown the scheme to.
Put a link to the scheme on page 1 of this thread, alot of people will be looking for a yellow link to click and wont bother to read where to download the scheme.
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thats why an annonamous poll is bullshit... i know people will vote no just out of spite.. hell, i have dropped like 11 forum karmas in 11 days.. there som1 out there who smites me once per day, i just think its funny (hi hater **waves**)
and nail, i have said the same thing in each post.. u dont feel its enough time, i respect ur opinion, i just dont agree.... its not like im intoducing some crazy idea of a scheme.. im just altering a current scheme to make it better...
and the reason im trying to rush it as u say, is cuz regular roper is just not enjoyable after u have played this scheme, anyone who has played it agrees.... once u played w2rope scheme, and then u have to tus waroper, its disgusting watching the game be given away do to cr8s. not even enjoyable
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and nail, i have said the same thing in each post.. u dont feel its enough time, i respect ur opinion, i just dont agree.... its not like im intoducing some crazy idea of a scheme.. im just altering a current scheme to make it better...
I wont say anymore, just that the scheme has only been downloaded 25 times. Irrespective of your or my opinion, this is proof that two weeks is not enough time to expect the scheme to have been played and recognised amongst the majority of the community!
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goes to show, the people voting no are full of shit.. scheme been downloaded 25 times, and there is 25 votes for no... kinda ironic, aint it?
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goes to show, the people voting no are full of shit.. scheme been downloaded 25 times, and there is 25 votes for no... kinda ironic, aint it?
Everyone disagreeing with you is full of shit. Nice attitude.
I personally think that the roper scheme is fine, but there might be a change of rules like "Agree on CBA or no CBA before the game". The current roper scheme is traditional (modifying it is like playing Elite without shotgun).
Yes, I know I'm going to be smited. Go on, trolls. Have fun!
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uhmm.. that just proves my point that u did not even both to try the scheme b4 forming an opinion...
yeah, great idea, lets make cr8 rules optional with the current scheme... then no1 will bother ever gettin a cr8 b4 a hit, lets just use our newb 10 second retreat!..... retarded... really
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This scheme is good for cowards, as it encourages waiting for mistakes. You can just attack, pick up easy crates and wait for falls when your opponent tries to get hard crate. Also, if both players will use this strategy, then crate luck factor just isn't eliminated, so it becomes pointless.
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It is not a scheme for cowards... seriously? You wait for mistakes in all schemes... If you are skilled enough to go for the crate and attack in 13 seconds, then gj for your skill... you are actually rewarded... but if you test your roping skill and make a mistake, that is your own fault... It is sickening how so many people have been brainwashed into thinking the standard roper scheme now is OK.
How on earth can you accept a scheme where the game engine randomly decides if you will be able to make an attack or not some turns? HOW I ASK?!?!?!?!? WHY DO YOU GUYS ACCEPT THIS! THINK ABOUT IT!
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It is sickening how so many people have been brainwashed into thinking the standard roper scheme now is OK.
I think that standard scheme sucks too, but this is poor attempt of fixing it, imo. Crate luck puts a big flaw in any roper modification, sadly.
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Actually it's a valid point that the game still decides if you can get a crate or not. You may still be the guy who gets the hard crates which you can't reach in 13sec, thus decide to just attack. It happens again, you attack again. Then your opponent will have 3 crates if he decides to take them (which would be smart). Of course you can prevent him from doing so by taking the crates yourself, but you'd miss your attack that way.. Ahh, my brain won't allow complex thinking now but you get what I mean! Crate luck is still a factor.
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darkz, go back and read my stats of the replay me and shy made.. i cant remember for sure, and too lazy to go back couple pages of this thread and check, but i had about 13 impossible cr8s, and 2 "maybes" and he had 6 inpossible cr8s, and 2 maybes... and the game was still very very close, and only ended when i made a very bad mistake at end...
so id have to say you guys are wrong... if it was a cr8 rule game, there is no possible way on earth it would have ended that close in HP, i would have been SCREWED with more then double his impossible cr8s, and thats a fact....
its obvious no1 has taken the time to read, watch replays, and actually try the scheme, b4 forming opinions..
but honestly i would not expect any different from most of you.
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You need to make the replay more obvious, it only has 9 downloads. It would help if you put it with on the 1st post in the thread, along with the link to the scheme.
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its clear no1 gives a f@#!, they r 2 newb for a real rope scheme.. they just want to continue with sets that are f@#!in dated back 10 years, when W:A players were just learning to rope....
the sets were 15second turns, and 10 second retreat for a reason when w:a first came out, cuz u were all newbs....
i was hoping after 10 years u guyz could adjust the scheme a bit, but guess not.
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guys, remember.. this isn't replacing roper... it is just an alternative... you don't have to pick w2roper... i think on those grounds and on the grounds that almost all of the "nos" havent tried the scheme, it should get passed with at least 40% of the vote...
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I think that should be replaced OR shouldnt be added, coz 2 Ropers Schme would be boring.
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voted "no"... pros will be loosing this shit to noobs sometimes anyway xd
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its clear no1 gives a f@#!, they r 2 newb for a real rope scheme.. they just want to continue with sets that are f@#!in dated back 10 years, when W:A players were just learning to rope....
the sets were 15second turns, and 10 second retreat for a reason when w:a first came out, cuz u were all newbs....
i was hoping after 10 years u guyz could adjust the scheme a bit, but guess not.
How about you actually give people a f@#!ing chance to play the scheme before asking for a poll? People don't like change, it's been a week since you've posted the scheme and you're surprised people are voting no? OH NOS TOYS OUT THE PRAM. I love ropers and am not exactly inactive and still haven't had that much time to play many w2ropers to get a good feel for it. As you say we've gone 10 years without w2 ropers and you're trying to get everyone to convert within a week. If you actually left it for a month or two, let people finish the cup (which would surely prove all the best people are winning right?) then maybe you would have grounds to start calling us retarded noobs etc. I dunno wtf you expected.
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It's actually been over 11 years :P
But yeah, give it some time Jeff, this is a VERY GOOD idea, you don't want to rush it and ruin it, but obviously try your best to push it.
If you really care about it, as well as this w2 cup, I would host alot of w2rope funners in AG with any random people that play TuS, spread the word as much as possible, gain the support of people who like it, and be patient.
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Aaand... Somebody deleted my post. Coolage.
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I think that should be replaced OR shouldnt be added, coz 2 Ropers Schme would be boring.
strange opinion m8 ;D
for example:
What is more boring?
-if u have to eat all ur life cheese burgers
-if u can choose between pizza and cheese burgers,so sometimes u eat C burgers and some times pizza
xDDD i think the 1st version is more boring ^^
(i kno` weird examples)
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You'd get fat either way. :D
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I think that should be replaced OR shouldnt be added, coz 2 Ropers Schme would be boring.
strange opinion m8 ;D
for example:
What is more boring?
-if u have to eat all ur life cheese burgers
-if u can choose between pizza and cheese burgers,so sometimes u eat C burgers and some times pizza
xDDD i think the 1st version is more boring ^^
(i kno` weird examples)
strange comparison m8 ;D
because i dont eat to have fun (atleast me) , i do it cos i need it
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i kno` m8,weird examples,but that doesen't metter,it was just ment to prove that if u can choose between 2 things is less boring than doing allways the same one :D
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Madden, i kinda blew up sure.. but im just frustrated at all the people that openly admitted they voted no, without even trying the scheme...
the longer i wait, the less fresh the idea is... if i wait 2 months imho i would still get people voting no, the only difference u would say "u shoulda made the poll when the idea was fresh in peples heads" grass is always greener.. and btw f@#! u madden ;)
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Madden, i kinda blew up sure.. but im just frustrated at all the people that openly admitted they voted no, without even trying the scheme...
oh XD he cant sleep cos of my vote , nice to see that my vote keep ur mind busy
i would like change my vote to "yes" , so i make u happy and u stop crying and making indirect posts about my vote , its kinda annoying
but whatever , i played ur scheme , is not that bad , even i liked it a little bit ,but not to add it to this league (yet( u know , noone know this scheme)), i still prefer the original roper
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remember guaton, it isn't eliminating the current scheme, just giving an alternate to the many people who want it... I think i saw an option to take your vote out but I don't see it anymore.. so idk how you will change your vote
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guaton, i was not even talking about you, dont feel too special about urself buddy
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@everybody,
To change your vote, click on "remove vote" next to the poll on top of this thread, then vote again.
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its nice to see some of the people who voted b4 viewing this thread, and actually trying the scheme, have taken the time to try it out and are now reconsidering their votes.. thanks everyone :P..
MI, check private msg plz
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Also there have been some new weird accounts and they have voted right after their sign ups.
Quit this thing, these votes will be sorted out.
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if your talking about exzorsist (or however he spell his name) he just made a tus account, and voted yes.. he is a long time w2 roper (dibz knows him) and he is going to be installing w:a 2day or 2marrow, u will see more of him.. so his vote is good. ty
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There are actually 5-6 accounts like this and no exzorsist or any nickname similar to that between votes.
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lmfao, i just asked him his tus name... he said ed_schoony, or suttin haha.. so thats exsorsizt :D
MI, check PM
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Well i know you would love to see this as a league scheme but cheating this poll won't help anyone... if people don't want it you'll have to face it. That's called democracy. No need to dictate people what's the best for them. That's no good for any1...
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wtf? whos cheating the poll? you maybe? ed_schoony is exzorist hes long time w2 players, and has played w:a.. he coming back, his vote counts
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Whatever, just seemed like you want to push this through at any cost. :)
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yes, and i do, thanks for noticing.. but dont accuse of me bullshit, its like when crash accused chicken of having a tool to kick him from game.. r u crash chakkman? or.. just sayin
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Nah, just figured you told a few guys you know from your w2 times to vote in this. And if 5 or 6 new accounts get created and the first action from those guys are to vote in this poll it's kinda suspicious don't u think?
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i told exzor to make an account and vote, he is also a w:a player too! and how do u know the new accounts formed were for yes votes? ur talking bullshit u dont know, what if the new accounts were for NO votes.... MI said new accounts were made just for votes, but he did not say in favor of what.. so plz stfu talkin stuff u know nothing about :D
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Why so defensive, i was not trying to offend you in any way. :) I simply figured that when MonkeyIsland says there have been accounts created for voting on this poll they were created to vote yes, unless you can point out to me why they coulda been created to vote no.
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I'm innocent.
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Well i know you would love to see this as a league scheme but cheating this poll won't help anyone... if people don't want it you'll have to face it. That's called democracy. No need to dictate people what's the best for them. That's no good for any1...
u r directly accusing me of cheating the poll...
Why so defensive, i was not trying to offend you in any way. :) I simply figured that when MonkeyIsland says there have been accounts created for voting on this poll they were created to vote yes, unless you can point out to me why they coulda been created to vote no.
and then wonder why i simply defend myself?.. whoa, ur a f@#!in dumbass for real :D
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oh, and why would accounts be created to vote no? id guess just to smite me, considering my karma has dropped 15 in 1 week.. so lets use our heads...
besides, monkey island will sort out the poll and see what the bad votes r, (in favor of yes, or nos) he will sort it out.. its not up to you to accuse me of cheating anything just because u find it hard to believe people would not cheat in the favor of no votes?... wait till MI posts final results, u will see.
but until that times comes, give me +1 karma to make up for all the f@#! heads that enjoy smiting me :D
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i voted.. happy now? :P
btw, anyone who doesn't vote for this is a lame noob that doesn't want to lose games to pros lol
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for me it only serves to W2 and no Worms Armageddon...useless scheme ;x
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I liked the scheme
but it could be the scheme original Worms 2
map with destructible and 12s: P
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We aren't trying to make an exact replica of the scheme from w2...
The reason it is 13 seconds instead of 12 is because WA is a lot more floaty than w2... in w2, I hear roping was a lot more fast paced.
As for the destructible land, i don't think WA is ready to accept that much of a change. We have to go step by step :p
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@avirex,
chakkman really didn't mean anything against you. You are counting yourself as one side of the argument while over 40 votes were on w2roper side that time. You take every negative thing to w2roper to yourself.
Stop pouncing on every idea against w2roper. It makes people vote against it more.
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that voting is rigged anyway. personal votes should be there. opposition from owners are always stronger than its oppenent fraction. the line of the last few hours is ridicolous, imo.
we should be careful with changing things at basic leagues. not every change makes it better.
just remember my words.
allthought, its a good thing to make schemes better or different. but it takes some time till more than half of community can agree with it. otherwise we will lose more ppl than take part in it.
I didnt read the whole thread. maybe there were any good ideas, how to warm up with that new scheme. but put it directly in the basic ladder it wont be a good move, imo.
Keep working for new schemes and dont missunderstand me. ;)
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@avirex,
chakkman really didn't mean anything against you. You are counting yourself as one side of the argument while over 40 votes were on w2roper side that time. You take every negative thing to w2roper to yourself.
Stop pouncing on every idea against w2roper. It makes people vote against it more.
im sorry, but if u read all his posts, he most certainly seems he is accusing me...
and he even went as far to say i probably have assked many w2 buddies to come and vote. lol but whatever, im not mad, i dont mind.
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If this was really an overall league, it would include EVERY possible scheme.
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@avirex,
chakkman really didn't mean anything against you. You are counting yourself as one side of the argument while over 40 votes were on w2roper side that time. You take every negative thing to w2roper to yourself.
Stop pouncing on every idea against w2roper. It makes people vote against it more.
im sorry, but if u read all his posts, he most certainly seems he is accusing me...
and he even went as far to say i probably have assked many w2 buddies to come and vote. lol but whatever, im not mad, i dont mind.
lol @ any w2 buddies giving a shit enough to join tus to vote. Noone has played w2 for probably 6 years
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Seems interesting, i vote yes. I started to hate classic roper because of crate rape.
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The scheme would need considerable discussion to get the sets right in my opinion. Although that is obviously a thought for later.
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GEtting inactiv ppl that u have on ur msn that used to play w2 its not good avi they'll just vote and never play, so hows that good to the active voting community? seems u call them to vote on ur favor and u dont care if they will play leagues or not, I'm actuallu not sure about the w2 roper scheme on our league I played it and I just don't seem to like it too much, I like having the challenge of the crates but if the community wants it we'll all have to get use to it and train.
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Avi and I have been hosting the scheme like crazy in ag and introducing the scheme to many people... we got a lot of people to change their votes after playing... that's the reason why we are winning the poll right now
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For some weird reason, the number of "no" votes haven't decreased at all...
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yes dev, train!! train indeed, cuz now these are pro sets, u wont be able to rely on luck anymore.
MonkeyIsland: considering the poll states "a second choice to classic roper" 50% is more then enough to put this into action, right? about half of the community will pick their rope scheme based on the luck of the cr8s, and the other half will pick rope scheme based on their skills, and tactic... and both will be equally accepted.. im excited.
btw hey orange!
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Also, MI, check these out:
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-34856/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-34857/
Avirex and dibz reporting w2roper games BEFORE THE POLL HAS ENDED. I don't want to comment on that.
For God's sake, why the hell do you open a thread and even a poll, if you already keep reporting games with that scheme, before the poll actually ends? "I don't care whether people mind it or not, I'm going to report it, 'cause nobody will notice! OMG I'm so eviiiil!"
I'd suggest deleting these games.
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And if it's legal to report games this way, then there's no point of the poll, because it's already possible to agree on a w2roper game, so there's no need to add w2roper "as a second choice to classic roper".
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For some weird reason, the number of "no" votes haven't decreased at all...
Lol yeah, gj with registering fakes XD
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And if it's legal to report games this way, then there's no point of the poll, because it's already possible to agree on a w2roper game, so there's no need to add w2roper "as a second choice to classic roper".
AFAIK ATM you can make any changes to the schemes you want TBH, as long as both players agree on it...IMO. If this gets passed then if someone wants to choose w2 roper, the opponent can't object.
Amirite?
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No, actually CMV is right because w2rope isn't an official league scheme now IMO TBH.
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So... Can I report a game of Comet Dodging vs Ray, for example, if we both agree, as elite? Modifying a scheme afaik can only work out in small aspects (girder number or super weapons in t17, crates or no crates in intermediate, having or not having drills in BnG), but not in aspects such as rules and turn time...
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For some weird reason, the number of "no" votes haven't decreased at all...
There have been people changing their vote no matter what you'd like to think... The no votes did go down the moment they changed their vote, but some people still voted no along the way which is why they "haven't decreased at all..." Come on... that argument was pig-shitty.
So... Can I report a game of Comet Dodging vs Ray, for example, if we both agree, as elite? Modifying a scheme afaik can only work out in small aspects (girder number or super weapons in t17, crates or no crates in intermediate, having or not having drills in BnG), but not in aspects such as rules and turn time...
No, you can't, because THOSE ARE TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT SCHEMES... You guys act like w2roper is such a completely different scheme... have you even tried it? You play it on the same kind of maps as a roper, you have the same weapons as a roper, you have the same number of worms as a roper, and the object is the same... 2 seconds are cut off the turn time and retreat is 5 seconds and there is no crate rule... big deal.
For some weird reason, the number of "no" votes haven't decreased at all...
Lol yeah, gj with registering fakes XD
Ask MI who the recent voters have been. Not fake accounts.... You jerks who never gave the scheme a try are just getting sour because we've actually spread the word more and people actually like the game
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1. I'm not arguing, I'm telling the facts. It would be fine if we, mortal TUS users could keep track on what's happening - we can never know what's behind the scenes.
2. W2roper is a lot different indeed. Otherwise, why would we have WxW shopper and Shopper seperated? All they differ from each other is the WBA rule - meaning WxW differs less from Shopper than W2Rope from the original WA Roper.
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And I've been writing "W2Roper" instead of "W2Rope", forgive me for that.
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@all,
I've already deleted the fake votes. I check the poll once in a while and clean it up.
@Avi & dibz,
Reporting those game while the poll is not finished yet is direct disrespect to the community. You both get a warning for that.
Games deleted.
I admire you wanting this scheme this much, but you gotta learn to "play fair". By playing fair you still can win. You are ruining the community respect toward yourselves just because you can't wait a bit longer and call any negative idea, stupid.
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Well... If people want w2rope(r?) this bad, I'll have to accept it regardless of what I think about it...
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Well... If people want w2rope(r?) this bad, I'll have to accept it regardless of what I think about it...
u cant change a scheme that have been played for years with a poll. lol its should not be like that
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@CMV
I disagree with the separation of wxw and shoppa, but that is just me. I remember in a PO with cfc we couldn't pick wxw AND shoppa in the same set, so there you go... I'd imagine it would be the same for roper and w2roper once it becomes a scheme.
@beer
Once again, for the 100th time, we aren't replacing roper, so saying we are changing a scheme is weak... you can always play your silly luck filled roper whenever you please.
MI said he deleted the "fake" votes, and the poll is 61-50... what
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@beer
Once again, for the 100th time, we aren't replacing roper, so saying we are changing a scheme is weak... you can always play your silly luck filled roper whenever you please.
MI said he deleted the "fake" votes, and the poll is 61-50... what
but no point to be 2 rope schemes there.. also i bit there will be ppl that will never play that. and then what? when u want play that and someone dont?
silly lucky filled scheme that u've been playd for years shy...
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beer everyone knows you never did good with ropes so why do u care, in w2roper "YOU" got more chances than in normal roper
w2 roper FTW.
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beer, I was forced to play roper because WA hadn't evolved and I didnt have a better idea until avi showed me w2roper... roper has always been my most hated scheme, not including wxw
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I'd like to see this scheme.
Sometimes I win games that I do not deserve imo in roper because of crate luck.
Did not read all the page (bit too lazy to filter spam and useful comment) but this got my support :).
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beer, I was forced to play roper because WA hadn't evolved and I didnt have a better idea until avi showed me w2roper... roper has always been my most hated scheme, not including wxw
yea also the most played.. lucky is a factor that must be in games. evry game has lucky.
thats a risk factor wich make a game be a game :)
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Not the most played... I play ttrr man
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T17 has luck factor, too - shall we replace that as well?
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Not the most played... I play ttrr man
lol yes, w/e. most played in leagues!
T17 has luck factor, too - shall we replace that as well?
lol ey
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t17 is noted for its luck factor, and everyone accepts it, and there is no way to change it.. u idiot..
roper should be based upon skill, now give it a rest..
MonkeyI: me and dibz agreed to w2roper, we enjoy the scheme better, and we did not realize it would be against rules to play it, as long as we both agreed... im kinda annoyed you give us a warning... but ok..... actually its not ok, thats bullshit.... but ok..
MonkeyI: if two people agree to an elite scheme, but then say "hey, do u mind if i take mines and barrels out of the scheme? imho i think they are lucky, and make for lack of hides if they land in the wrong spot" the other guy sez "sure buddy, i feel the same way.. go ahead and remove mines and barrels" lmfao...
will they get warned? just sayin
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@beer
Once again, for the 100th time, we aren't replacing roper, so saying we are changing a scheme is weak... you can always play your silly luck filled roper whenever you please.
You guys are bashing normal roper way too hard.. "silly luck filled roper"? You make it sound like everyone who has played roper is an idiot for playing it because "why haven't they noticed how silly and luck filled it is?!" Either that or you'll say anything just to make w2rope look good.
Show me one game where someone didn't make any mistakes and still lost due to crates. I'm absolutely positive this is harder than you think. Then prove that this happens all the time. Because it doesn't.
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franz.. shy is not the only one who thinks it... more and more think it, and more and more are coming to see it, so chill... stop PMS'ing
and yeah, i have seen perfect games b4.. who does the winner go to? the better cr8s.. duh
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franz.. shy is not the only one who thinks it... more and more think it, and more and more are coming to see it, so chill... stop PMS'ing
and yeah, i have seen perfect games b4.. who does the winner go to? the better cr8s.. duh
empty words without any replay(s)
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You guys are bashing normal roper way too hard.. "silly luck filled roper"? You make it sound like everyone who has played roper is an idiot for playing it because "why haven't they noticed how silly and luck filled it is?!" Either that or you'll say anything just to make w2rope look good.
Show me one game where someone didn't make any mistakes and still lost due to crates. I'm absolutely positive this is harder than you think. Then prove that this happens all the time. Because it doesn't.
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franz, i obviously dont have games saved on archive lmfao... thats so stupid..
besides, its harder to have a perfect game when all ur cr8s r hard right? u need to rush and maybe force a fall... so easier cr8s will win in that respect as well...
besides the point is not how often it happens, the point is to stop it from happening.. simple as that.
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"t17 is noted for its luck factor, and everyone accepts it, and there is no way to change it.. u idiot.."
It was the same with roper, up to now. It was noted for its luck factor, everybody accepted it, and people thought there was no way to change it. I just tried to be sarcastic with the t17 example. And will you stop calling me an idiot, please? You could as well receive a warning for disrespecting other people...
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ehhh... modified :) i will bite my tongue for once in my life.
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MonkeyI: if two people agree to an elite scheme, but then say "hey, do u mind if i take mines and barrels out of the scheme? imho i think they are lucky, and make for lack of hides if they land in the wrong spot" the other guy sez "sure buddy, i feel the same way.. go ahead and remove mines and barrels" lmfao...
Do not put minor and major details of a scheme in one place. Mines and barrels for Elite scheme are minor details of the scheme. 2 people can NOT remove WBA rule from WxW upon agreement and report it as WxW, however they can agree on adding super sheep to WxW scheme. That's the difference.
We delete these kind of games which has a major rule break but we usually do not warn if it is their first time.
The reason you got warn was because we had a whole topic and poll going on and you chose to ignore them all. We are not a clan site with 10 members. I'm dealing with many members of the community.
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franz, i obviously dont have games saved on archive lmfao... thats so stupid..
well then I still say that if you can't show a single game where someone didn't make any mistakes and still lost due to crates -> it rarely ever happens.
besides, its harder to have a perfect game when all ur cr8s r hard right? u need to rush and maybe force a fall... so easier cr8s will win in that respect as well...
besides the point is not how often it happens, the point is to stop it from happening.. simple as that.
that's the thing.. part of the strategy of roper is keeping your cool and composure when getting hard crates and therefore not making mistakes when they do happen. way too often people rush too hard for an impossible crate and force a fall like you say, then they complain "WTF CRATES." did the crate make you fall? no, you lost your cool and you made a mistake. that ends up being much worse than the alternative -> get the crate and return safely.
I'm not bashing w2rope by the way, I'll usually play just about anything. I just think you guys are bashing too hard the roper we've played and enjoyed for years.
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Well, even if I think sometimes you get crate bashed it's not often. But you often play against people that will hide in top after 5 turn because they got the last 5 crate easy and could attack you when it wasn't your case (even if you didn't fall).
And hidding in top is imo lame and kill the game. So just for that this scheme is worth the shot imo since it avoids it.
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as u know, im from w2.. i thought ur guys rope sets were retarded from the start tbh... and this is not the first time i have tried to bring these sets to w:a.. (its just the first time anyone listens)
and as i have said in this thread b4, just because u have played a scheme for a long period of time, and its considered "classic" does not mean its perfect, and needs not improvement.
MonkeyI: me and dibz agreed to play w2roper... knowing we were sacraficing our own points, and what not.. it was between no1 else but me and dibz... i really dont understand this warning (not that i personally care about it) but i just dont understand it...
but if u feel its needed, go for it... im done discussing it
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"me and dibz agreed to play w2roper..." Read what MI wrote before replying, for God's sake.
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Well, even if I think sometimes you get crate bashed it's not often. But you often play against people that will hide in top after 5 turn because they got the last 5 crate easy and could attack you when it wasn't your case (even if you didn't fall).
And hidding in top is imo lame and kill the game. So just for that this scheme is worth the shot imo since it avoids it.
it's not often, I agree. I think more often is people making mistakes due to the crates, so we shouldn't be blaming crates like everyone is doing. we should be blaming ourselves and focus on playing mistake-free.
since you brought up the 'hide on top strat', I have to comment. there is no rule about the 'hide on top strat' but you can help avoid frustration if you agree beforehand with your opponent about it. I do enjoy playing without that strat, but I know that I can't force people to play it. so if we both agree it's allowed before the game starts, then if I have a lead near the end, I use the strat, and hopefully they start to hate the strat if they start losing to it a lot ;)
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as u know, im from w2.. i thought ur guys rope sets were retarded from the start tbh... and this is not the first time i have tried to bring these sets to w:a.. (its just the first time anyone listens)
and as i have said in this thread b4, just because u have played a scheme for a long period of time, and its considered "classic" does not mean its perfect, and needs not improvement.
you can call the rope sets retarded, but it's probably the most played game outside of shopper that's been enjoyed for 10+ years. that has to count for something. I just don't want you guys to make people HATE rope with your 'retarded/silly/luckfilled' language just to make people start to like w2rope.
try to get people to like w2rope for its own merit, not because we have to HATE normal roper.
use those reasons you say in your last sentence, that you're 'trying to improve a long considered classic scheme that isn't perfect.' say stuff like that and make it sound like w2rope is a nice alternative that people can enjoy.
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You jerks who never gave the scheme a try are just getting sour because we've actually spread the word more and people actually like the game
Lmao, I've tried this scheme you f@#!ing retard, I didn't like it coz it doesn't solve roper's problems, satisfied? gg.
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w2 shouldnt be added
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popular vote disagrees.
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this poll is even more stupid then u are.
u and shy, both never did nothing for tus, and dnt give a fuk about it.. u guys are just here after all that time cose there is not other league with all of those ''cool'' oldskool.
u dnt have the right of change a think that existe for year, and is one of most played schemes in leagues, i guess the most.
is a fuking poll enough ofr that?! there is only 100 or 200.. even if evryone would vote yes, in my eyes it should not ever be add to 'Classic League' cose its not classic, and it will never be.
u must see where is ur place
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beer, i respect ur opinion... about as much as my shit im bout to drop in the toilet when im done typing here.
btw, shoppa, wxa, hysteria, etc are not classic.. just cuz they were on w:a b4 u, does not mean they are classic lol.
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Define "classic".
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beer, i respect ur opinion... about as much as my shit im bout to drop in the toilet when im done typing here.
btw, shoppa, wxa, hysteria, etc are not classic.. just cuz they were on w:a b4 u, does not mean they are classic lol.
it make them even more classic that a scheme that has 1 week on w:a. lol its realy not classic.
ps, i dnt give a fuk about what u think about me.
i cant just see u trying to make this XTC, cose its not. think about it, here u are a normal player as i am, not a super cool oldskoolr.
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i don't think there is more room for debate... we've gone out and showed the public the scheme, and as you can see in the poll, they find it league worthy, just how like hysteria was voted in.
franz, even if people need to keep their cool and composure when getting a hard crate, why should they accept a scheme that allows the game engine dictate even a single turn in the game?
And I know you guys bring up the argument that t17, shoppa, whatever is luck too, I agree with you and I hope we can find some way to make them less luck filled! But right now, we actually found an alternate to roper that the majority likes.
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add w2 roper!
big pros agree.. like dibz,high skilled roper says to add it!
listen him yo
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popular vote disagrees.
Lmao, when there were more people voting for "no", you said this poll is dumb and everyone are stupid. Then, you asked random noobs in ag to vote, so there are more "yes" votes now, and thus the poll surprisingly became fair and worth attention. Hilariously pathetic XD
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popular vote disagrees.
Lmao, when there were more people voting for "no", you said this poll is dumb and everyone are stupid. Then, you asked random noobs in ag to vote, so there are more "yes" votes now, and thus the poll surprisingly became fair and worth attention. Hilariously pathetic XD
+1 lol
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popular vote disagrees.
Lmao, when there were more people voting for "no", you said this poll is dumb and everyone are stupid. Then, you asked random noobs in ag to vote, so there are more "yes" votes now, and thus the poll surprisingly became fair and worth attention. Hilariously pathetic XD
I'm afraid you are terribly misinformed... asking random noobs to vote yes? Didn't you already read MI deleted all the bogus votes? We worked hard to get out and host the scheme and show the people... they responded... I'm getting pissed now
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popular vote disagrees.
Lmao, when there were more people voting for "no", you said this poll is dumb and everyone are stupid. Then, you asked random noobs in ag to vote, so there are more "yes" votes now, and thus the poll surprisingly became fair and worth attention. Hilariously pathetic XD
yea, i alredy said that avirex is lickyingass evryone to vote, and since 90% of wormers are dumbs and like a nice lick ass from an old player, its working..
but even if this poll whould be that true, and it has 1000 votes!! could we change the roper scheme? it doesnt even any sense in my eyes..
or even add an other 'rope' schemes? whats the point? lets also had bng without rules?
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Beer, you accuse us of saying the poll was shit when the no's were leading, yet you had no problem back then accepting that almost all of the no's came from people who never gave the scheme a glance... now that we showed a lot of those people the scheme and they changed their vote, you bitch? You say we are bullshitting the poll? The poll was already bullshitted but you were fine with it because that time it was in your favor.
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no, im saing even if the poll has 500 yes (truth votes) to 50, it woundnt be a reason to change.. we are trying to change something that was alwys like that and evryone have enjoyed. thats the point here, u cant just change it, even if its has lots of lucky or not.. roper is roper and it has CBA, otherwise u can call it a roper.
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Call it roper, call it an alternate to roper, call it a new scheme for all I care... It is league worthy, people agree... 500-50 would be a reason to change, it is just another scheme in the league... make the the stats separate from roper... it doesn't matter... a lot of people want this scheme in the league, that's what matters
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franz, even if people need to keep their cool and composure when getting a hard crate, why should they accept a scheme that allows the game engine dictate even a single turn in the game?
because in the end the best player that game wins just about every time anyway.
I agree that it would be nice to have a roper scheme that doesn't let the game engine dictate even a single turn, so only 100% skill is involved, but what would that look like? Would it even be fun? Does w2rope really achieve that goal? Isn't it still possible for one player to get extremely lucky with a crate next to him every turn of the game? To me that still looks like the game engine dictating turns of the game.
a roper scheme truly without luck would be one without health crates entirely. you could just go w2w every turn so that way every turn is treated equal. would this really be fun?
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"I agree that it would be nice to have a roper scheme that doesn't let the game engine dictate even a single turn, so only 100% skill is involved, but what would that look like? Would it even be fun? Does w2rope really achieve that goal? Isn't it still possible for one player to get extremely lucky with a crate next to him every turn of the game? To me that still looks like the game engine dictating turns of the game."
check out the thread avi made a few days ago... it has a replay of him and I playing w2roper... he also wrote down the crate stats... he got like 10 impossible crates as opposed to mine 5 or something, and the game was still very close because avi used some tactics... watch the replay or something :p
"you could just go w2w every turn so that way every turn is treated equal. would this really be fun?"
The roper scheme now is more closely related to what you described there than anything... In roper, you fetch crates, use a mine, and hide in the same hiding spots all game... really monotonous.
The replay avi posted, we are all over the map doing tactics.. it is really interesting
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i had 13 impossible, shyguy had 5... franz, please watch the replay b4 u continue... and maybe try the scheme some if u have not already
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check out the thread avi made a few days ago... it has a replay of him and I playing w2roper... he also wrote down the crate stats... he got like 10 impossible crates as opposed to mine 5 or something, and the game was still very close because avi used some tactics... watch the replay or something :p
ok I watched the replay, but I can't say it was pretty. you both had quite a few mistakes and missed opportunities. since you guys really seem to think this replay proves something, I have to say that it actually doesn't. If you have a replay that isn't as messy as this one, I'd like to see it, but as for this one, I'll tell you why I don't like it.
I went through each turn and I tried to keep track of all the damage lost from mistakes and missed opportunities. I also awarded +damage when you guys attacked higher than the average 47 attack. what did I find?
well, in avi's post about the replay, he mentions at 8 minutes that although he had more impossible crates, he was winning 262-209. yes, that is all true, but tallying shyguy's mistakes, I had him at -328 in lost damage vs avi's -136 in lost damage. that's the real reason why avi was leading here.
avi also mentions at 12 minutes he had 'a wopping 9 crates that were impossible, and 1 questionable, and shy still only 2-2... yet the score was just about tied, me having 172, and shyguy having 174.' yet again shyguy's mistakes tallied him at -334 vs avi's -199.
avi ends by saying "by the end of the game i had 13 impossible, and 1 questionable.. and shy had 5 impossible and 2 questionable, it was not until i gave myself 20 FD second to last turn, and totally blew my last turn killing myself was the game over... there were plenty of cr8s on the map for me to retreive and hide, if i had not fallen there was plenty of possibility for me to have won... therefor shy was the better skilled player of this match, cr8s had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome."
until your last turn avi, shyguy had -357 in lost damage while you had only -220. I argue that shyguy was NOT the better skilled player of this match, and that cr8s DEFINITELY had something to do with the outcome of keeping shyguy ahead.
do you have a better replay I can check? =\
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i had 13 impossible, shyguy had 5... franz, please watch the replay b4 u continue... and maybe try the scheme some if u have not already
The scheme sucks, its not w2 sets. Needs reworked.
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because in the end the best player that game wins just about every time anyway.
I totally disagree, it's my opinion, so i'll leave it at that :)
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Let me add my 2 cents.
@avirex: About the popular vote saying 'yes' - it only says so because you and shyguy agitated for it heavily and no one bothered to agitate against it. Before that the poll went in favor of 'no', remember?
You say w2 scheme eliminates crate luck. You are WRONG. Crates still affect the game in a different way. Read what franz wrote and think about it, because I couldn't agree more with him.
And before you start calling me an idiot, note that I voted yes. I think it's a nice way of playing ropes with different strategy and as far as I'm concerned it can be another scheme in the league. But your bashing of regular roper scheme is silly. People lose because of mistakes and very rarely only because of bad crates. And when it happens, you're probably playing on a fabrousse map with no hides and 1 evil crate spot ;D
@beer: "classic" roper will not be changed in any way. w2rope would only be another scheme in the league, with separated rating (IF it will be added, of course).
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That's weird, because i've literally seen over a thousand games at least lost because of bad crates
Note, i've been playing for over 11 years, I am NOT exaggerating the number of games i've seen lost due to bad crates.
I personally voted no, not because I don't like it or anything, it's ok, I still prefer normal roper, even with the crate rape lol, the reason I still play this game, is because I like what I am used to, and the people I play with and if everything started changing, I wouldn't feel right.
The main reason I voted no, I wouldn't mind playing this 1on1, if someone else picked it, even though I don't play TuS anymore atm, but I couldn't stand having to play this scheme in a clanner, and if it DOES get voted in, and I am asked, i'll just point blank refuse, if everyone enjoys this that's cool, but I just don't think this is a solution, but it's a good start, at least some people are actually trying to get something done about it.
The w2w without health idea would be great, if it wasn't for the, who starts 1st problem.
I personally think roper should be left the way it is, because even with this scheme, it still doesn't fully solve the problem, and from what i've witnessed, there IS still quite a bit of crate rape.
This is my opinion, and if ANYONE disagrees, don't start mouthing off, just tell me you disagree, a detailed explanation why, and we will agree to disagree, otherwise it'll be another pointless, endless arguement because EVERY single one of us here is stubborn when it comes to online arguements.
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That's weird, because i've literally seen over a thousand games at least lost because of bad crates
Note, i've been playing for over 11 years, I am NOT exaggerating the number of games i've seen lost due to bad crates.
And you played millions of others which you won/lose because the opponent was simply better/worse.
People have a thing called selective memory. You're much more likely to remember the crate rape which cost someone a win than your own fault or an average game where there were no evil crates. The percentage of games lost only coz of bad crates is still fairly low, and that's a fact.
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And you played millions of others which you won/lose because the opponent was simply better/worse.
People have a thing called selective memory. You're much more likely to remember the crate rape which cost someone a win than your own fault or an average game where there were no evil crates. The percentage of games lost only coz of bad crates is still fairly low, and that's a fact.
Yes, of course, but still, 80% of games i've played & seen, consist of alot of hard crates, especially on ridiculous maps that alot of people host with nowadays.
To me, and I am not lying, seriously, in the last 2 years, MOST games I play in, or watch in clanners, someone gets bad crates most of the game, now i'm not saying this always results in a loss, but when it comes down to like say, you have 54hp and opponent has 20hp, his turn, his crate is RIGHT next to you, he hits you for 47, you now have 7hp left, and he has 40hp, his hide is hittable with a mine on head without a knock, but guess what, you have played better the WHOLE game, and RIGHT at the last minute, when you really should deserve the win, you get a crate at the other side of the map tucked right under, you get the crate, perfect roping even get back fast, but not fast enough to make a hit, you toss a grenade in hope of a lucky hit, you get your good hide back, next turn, he gets a crate directly above, - GG you lose cuz of crates.
I have seen this happen at least a hundred times like this, and it's happened to me alot, but whatever, it's just a game lol, hence why I BnG so much, to me it's all skill, and that's my opinion :)
It's quite funny though, i'll play the map, complain but not seriously complain, just mention the fact it's going to turn out that 1 player will get crate raped, and 1 player ALWAYS does.
And it's not selective memory with me, it's a fact, I actually remember the games I lose more, because i've played bad. It is just more annoying when you are the better player for THAT game, and lose because your opponent gets crates right next to them, all game, and 90% of your crates, are on the other side of the map, and tucked in right under... It happens too much either way, but then again, that's what makes the game kind of fun, the hope you get good crates, or even better, EVERYONE gets good crates, and you just play better :)
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check out the thread avi made a few days ago... it has a replay of him and I playing w2roper... he also wrote down the crate stats... he got like 10 impossible crates as opposed to mine 5 or something, and the game was still very close because avi used some tactics... watch the replay or something :p
ok I watched the replay, but I can't say it was pretty. you both had quite a few mistakes and missed opportunities. since you guys really seem to think this replay proves something, I have to say that it actually doesn't. If you have a replay that isn't as messy as this one, I'd like to see it, but as for this one, I'll tell you why I don't like it.
I went through each turn and I tried to keep track of all the damage lost from mistakes and missed opportunities. I also awarded +damage when you guys attacked higher than the average 47 attack. what did I find?
well, in avi's post about the replay, he mentions at 8 minutes that although he had more impossible crates, he was winning 262-209. yes, that is all true, but tallying shyguy's mistakes, I had him at -328 in lost damage vs avi's -136 in lost damage. that's the real reason why avi was leading here.
avi also mentions at 12 minutes he had 'a wopping 9 crates that were impossible, and 1 questionable, and shy still only 2-2... yet the score was just about tied, me having 172, and shyguy having 174.' yet again shyguy's mistakes tallied him at -334 vs avi's -199.
avi ends by saying "by the end of the game i had 13 impossible, and 1 questionable.. and shy had 5 impossible and 2 questionable, it was not until i gave myself 20 FD second to last turn, and totally blew my last turn killing myself was the game over... there were plenty of cr8s on the map for me to retreive and hide, if i had not fallen there was plenty of possibility for me to have won... therefor shy was the better skilled player of this match, cr8s had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome."
until your last turn avi, shyguy had -357 in lost damage while you had only -220. I argue that shyguy was NOT the better skilled player of this match, and that cr8s DEFINITELY had something to do with the outcome of keeping shyguy ahead.
do you have a better replay I can check? =\
franz, its good that u actually watched the replay b4 continued... thank you, at least that's a start!! i would ask you to also try the scheme b4 you go on any further, but that may be pushing it...
now, there is no doubt mistakes had been made... but these mistakes were not do to "you have to go after a cr8 other side of the map" thats the point... he took risks in the game trying to get cr8 + attack when he shouldnt have.. there were time with 2 cr8s on the map, and he would only get one trying to come back for an attack, miss attack and hurt himself... to me, it was poor choice and him being an idiot... (happy everyone? i called shyguy an idiot)
however, if were able to get his cr8 and return for an attack these situations it could have created a huge advantage for himself due to his skill... sometimes in this scheme though u need to put your skill/pride aside and just do a smart play :P but nope, shy was being an idiot (called him an idiot twice hahaha..)
and franz, im not saying that the scheme is perfect, or it eliminates cr8 luck, cuz there will never be way to as far as i see... but like komo said (but still does not like the scheme lol) this is a good start.. and imo a very good start... im open to any ideas to make this scheme better. and no dub, not put dyno's in it, and destructable land, but thnx.
edit: i can also remember a time i got hit.. -47 went to the middle of the map after getting 2 cr8s... +46 so im at -1 he came and made an attack -47 so now im at -48, and because i was in the middle of the map, he only had 13 seconds to get to me, he could not get his cr8 b4 attack, and just attcked me.... and.. HO HO HO retreat only 5 seconds, he could not get it on his retreat... and now that i was already in the middle, his hard cr8, became my easy cr8... i was able to get his, mine, and attack... putting me up 46 so now im at -2... and him down to -47.... and thats just one strategy i can remember, we both were using different strats
Let me add my 2 cents.
@avirex: About the popular vote saying 'yes' - it only says so because you and shyguy agitated for it heavily and no one bothered to agitate against it. Before that the poll went in favor of 'no', remember?
You say w2 scheme eliminates crate luck. You are WRONG. Crates still affect the game in a different way. Read what franz wrote and think about it, because I couldn't agree more with him.
And before you start calling me an idiot, note that I voted yes. I think it's a nice way of playing ropes with different strategy and as far as I'm concerned it can be another scheme in the league. But your bashing of regular roper scheme is silly. People lose because of mistakes and very rarely only because of bad crates. And when it happens, you're probably playing on a fabrousse map with no hides and 1 evil crate spot ;D
@beer: "classic" roper will not be changed in any way. w2rope would only be another scheme in the league, with separated rating (IF it will be added, of course).
well rok, monkeyisland told me he also likes the idea, and voted yes... but the way i was going about it, and just complaining on forums was getting me nowhere, he told me i have to advertise the scheme, and get people to play it in AG, and let them see the scheme for what its worth, and then hopefully they change their "NO's" to "YES's" and thats what me and shy did.. we got on the grind, and yes, MANY MANY people changed their no votes to yes's... and some that had not yet voted, voted yes... you saying we agitated it almost seems like ur accusing us of rigging it too lol...
me and shy are nothing more then a couple of idiot (i called us both idiot!) politicians campaigning our idea!!
edit: u say "yes its a nice way of playing ropers with a diff strategy" where does the different come in? seriously.... what is the strategy in current ropers??? fetch ur cr8, make an attack, and hide in that very hard hide that neither of have wanted to leave all game?? is that reallly a strategy?? just sayin
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you saying we agitated it almost seems like ur accusing us of rigging it too lol...
me and shy are nothing more then a couple of idiot (i called us both idiot!) politicians campaigning our idea!!
I didn't say it's wrong, I only meant that the result of the vote would probably be tighter if someone was telling people to vote 'no'. Just saying, nevermind.
edit: u say "yes its a nice way of playing ropers with a diff strategy" where does the different come in? seriously.... what is the strategy in current ropers??? fetch ur cr8, make an attack, and hide in that very hard hide that neither of have wanted to leave all game?? is that reallly a strategy?? just sayin
Fine, I'll rephrase: It's a nice way of playing ropers with some strategy :) Current roper scheme is about rope skills (and cr8 luck, you'd add), I don't think whoever invented it was thinking about strategic aspects. There are some in 2v2 games nonetheless.
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To me, and I am not lying, seriously, in the last 2 years, MOST games I play in, or watch in clanners, someone gets bad crates most of the game, now i'm not saying this always results in a loss, but when it comes down to like say, you have 54hp and opponent has 20hp, his turn, his crate is RIGHT next to you, he hits you for 47, you now have 7hp left, and he has 40hp, his hide is hittable with a mine on head without a knock, but guess what, you have played better the WHOLE game, and RIGHT at the last minute, when you really should deserve the win, you get a crate at the other side of the map tucked right under, you get the crate, perfect roping even get back fast, but not fast enough to make a hit, you toss a grenade in hope of a lucky hit, you get your good hide back, next turn, he gets a crate directly above, - GG you lose cuz of crates.
that's why everyone thinks there is crate rape. they lose on the last turn, and they blame the crate instead of them self.. but did they really play their best game the whole game? was it 100% the game's fault?
That's weird, because i've literally seen over a thousand games at least lost because of bad crates
Note, i've been playing for over 11 years, I am NOT exaggerating the number of games i've seen lost due to bad crates.
seriously, just find one game from your recent memory even here on the tus site and show it to us. I still stand by my quote below.
well then I still say that if you can't show a single game where someone didn't make any mistakes and still lost due to crates -> it rarely ever happens.
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oh and avi, nice words. I like how you're defending w2rope. you make good points.
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true like franz i hardly ever lose cos of cr8s. unless i mess up ie fall trying to hard to get a cr8 but then its my fault.
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Avi, I said I think the scheme is ok, meaning I like it, but I still prefer normal roper.
franz, If you hit every turn of a game, you started 2nd, your opponent misses 1 turn, and at the end of the game, what I said happens, sorry but, I don't how that ISN'T crate rape...
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komo, that's the point. when was the last time you hit every turn of a game?
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I think that all of U guys needs to try to play some WormsReloaded https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/worms-reloaded/ (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/worms-reloaded/) just to realize some things... xD
Btw, why don't U have it on "free" league and give it a try-out times... After few months see what happens and bring it to "classic" if ppl likes it... Problem [solved] ;)
After all, there's always ttrr for "pure-roping-skill" contest..
Or even some "style-warm" contests...
Whatever ya want, I ain't the one to talk about it anyway ;X
Play some BnG's! xD
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do people even play free league?...
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To me, and I am not lying, seriously, in the last 2 years, MOST games I play in, or watch in clanners, someone gets bad crates most of the game, now i'm not saying this always results in a loss, but when it comes down to like say, you have 54hp and opponent has 20hp, his turn, his crate is RIGHT next to you, he hits you for 47, you now have 7hp left, and he has 40hp, his hide is hittable with a mine on head without a knock, but guess what, you have played better the WHOLE game, and RIGHT at the last minute, when you really should deserve the win, you get a crate at the other side of the map tucked right under, you get the crate, perfect roping even get back fast, but not fast enough to make a hit, you toss a grenade in hope of a lucky hit, you get your good hide back, next turn, he gets a crate directly above, - GG you lose cuz of crates.
that's why everyone thinks there is crate rape. they lose on the last turn, and they blame the crate instead of them self.. but did they really play their best game the whole game? was it 100% the game's fault?
That's weird, because i've literally seen over a thousand games at least lost because of bad crates
Note, i've been playing for over 11 years, I am NOT exaggerating the number of games i've seen lost due to bad crates.
seriously, just find one game from your recent memory even here on the tus site and show it to us. I still stand by my quote below.
well then I still say that if you can't show a single game where someone didn't make any mistakes and still lost due to crates -> it rarely ever happens.
You have no say in this. You're the one who claimed to have a vagina. :D:D:D:DD:D:D:D:
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<3
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komo, that's the point. when was the last time you hit every turn of a game?
Well before I broke the keyboard I was used to at the start of this year, I actually do it quite alot where I get every crate and attack, because I don't host on ridiculous maps, but even on ridiculous maps, when my crate wasn't at the other side of the map and tucked under, I would always attack.
This year, i've only done it about 3 times out of about 300 ropers, cuz i've been screwing around trying diff keyboards and stuff, I finally found one I like, so shouldn't be too long before I get used to it
At the end of the day, like I said, this is going to be a pointless debate, because you have your opinion which is fine, and I have my opinion which is also fine, most ropers I encounter I get crate raped, some people forget I used to be an EXTREMELY strong and fast roper before I started playing BnG which is why alot of people will shrug me off, franz, you should know better, i've beat you on many occasions back in the day as have you beat me, but I guess that's when you were a girl... Lol.
You have your opinion, I respect it, it's what you feel, but I feel what I feel and I guess I must just have bad luck most of the time when it comes to getting crates, because obviously you don't sound like you have it as bad as me.
But you are correct, this year, most of my games have lost because I haven't played good, but still half of those games I could have won easy if my crates were not pathetic lol, recently I always fall trying to get a hard crate...
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oh I definitely remember when you were mainly a roper/warmer pro. you had my respect then, so don't assume that you don't still have my respect now (you just mainly play bng now is all :P)
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Hah, that last post made me a Hero Member :D:D
And yeah, I loved the days of sitting, getting stoned, playing worms.
I remember I stayed awake for 2 weeks (I swear, no lie) smoking weed, drinking Irn Bru and playing this...
Irn Bru makes me hyper by the way, it helped to stay awake, my mum and dad were on holiday.
I sleep for 3 days after this though,lol, I know you will all look at this and think, 2 weeks? Pfft no way, But I swear, when I was like 16-17 (6-7 years ago) I used to stay up for days at a time, on multiple occasions playing, WA is partly the reason why I work nightshift now, and why I can outlast anyone I know at drinking and staying awake longest lol, there's no way I could stay awake for 2 weeks now, i'm well unfit now, but I could still manage 3-4 days, if I wasn't working, and I could do anything I want.
In those 2 weeks, IMO was the best roping i've EVER done, I will NEVER do better than that.
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i used to love when franz had a pussy.
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i used to love when franz had a pussy.
I 2nd that :)
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...and why I can outlast anyone I know at drinking and staying awake longest lol...
Don't say that twice! I hope I'll meet ya someday and put ya under table in drinking contest!!! ;D We might also have a drunken fight, so I can revenge all those zooks and nades on my head that I got from U! XD
lol
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I'll change my vote from yes to no because after playing a couple of w2ropes I don't see how there can't be crate rape in this scheme. It's the same as in normal Roper, imho the newfound tactics in this scheme are very questionable.
In the end it's still down to crates spawning at random places.
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darkz, random cr8 is nothing we can do.. bad cr8s will be bad cr8s.. sure... but u can do things in w2roper to help urself even with bad cr8s, and still come out ahead...
in standard rope, if u get all bad cr8s, ur f@#!ed... but whatever..
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Now this is what I call an indecisive poll. 75-75. XD
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yeh lol, lmao
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the w2 scheme really shoud be accepted, cause will be a 2nd scheme, then play that only who want, isnt a obligation ;) .. and is a inovation too.. always new schemes have to be tested =*
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i'm gonna make poll about adding comet dodgings (or how it's called) to league then. I'm sure every noob will accept it and it will be must added
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YEEEEEEEEEEEEH COS ADDIN W2 ROPE AS A SECOND CHOICE TO ROPER IS LIIIIIKEEEEE ADING COMET DOGGING TO THE CLASSIK LEAGEU
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i see you understand me Nail!
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i saw it in video few month ago... at least my friend help me to found this replay.
time 5:40
so where is bad luck?
mb bad skills all voted "yes"?
cheers ae
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I think I'm the only person that doesn't have a clue what w2rope scheme is!
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most of the yes votes are from the higher skilled ropers. maciej... so ur "LETS ADD COMET.. " whatever u said, i hardly read it.. is just stupid.... but thats ok. im used to it
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not really avi...
this scheme sux!
5 secs for retreat rofl!
i vote no!
if keep retreat 10 secs...i vote yes!
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zippo.. the rest of ur clan voted yes... notice i said higher skilled ropers? i dont think u fit into that category :D
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Zippo vs avirex at tus....
2-0 in last game...and i was stoped...like now!
wow! PWNED!
aww...i undestand now...why 5 sec retreat...cuz hide on tops....hmmmmm!!
if u only make a rule about hide on tops....dont need that scheme.
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besides, u should not lol at 5 second retreat, u should lol at 10 second retreat...... what f@#!in reason should retreat time outlast a mine? i guess if you were a new player and hardly knew how to rope, then i can see the logic in it.. otherwise... i dont understand
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lol big deal, u beat me 2-0... i had just woken up from a nap, and i hardly can care less.. i dont take it as serious as you do... u bitched and moaned and complained and swore while i was winning, then as u take a lead.. u get all happy, lmfao.. ur like a little kid
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nah i dont get happy....if u want we can play more ropers now....i wake up have 40 minutes...and i'm stoped...and gg u ;D
easy like a little duck =D
btw....i like 10 sec retreat cuz i like change the sides of my hides....
if all only do a rule about hide on tops....will keep good the old scheme.
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Just watch Error's replay. It explains everything.
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ok, so should we all use programs to enhance our roping??? is that what ur getting at? lmfao.. u guys dont know shit
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guys.. is a second scheme.. the original scheme will remain.. lol.. only will add a new option for us.. =PPP
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ok, so should we all use programs to enhance our roping???
What the hell are you talking about? You can't live with the fact that there are better ropers than you?
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sure there are some better ropers then me... some are legit, some cheat.. youngster
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IDIOTER! LOL
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avirex, u talking too much shit about ppl/things that goes out of discussion. watch ur words, ok?
p.s. hi zippo aeee
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wow ;o
ok, so should we all use programs to enhance our roping???
What the hell are you talking about? You can't live with the fact that there are better ropers than you?
applaud ae rofl!
ps: hi error ae =P
avi shiiiu now ;P
82 vs 79....= no w2 scheme ;P
this is scheme sux as well =DD
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error, im only saying the truth, in other words
aeeeeeee truth only!! no truth but truth aeeeeeee
hehehuaauahua ok??? sooo shuuiiiiii gg
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Don't say anything you can't prove. No offense.
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82 vs 79....= no w2 scheme ;P
this is scheme sux as well =DD
sux is u have 10 seconds to run, sux is play in indestructible maps, sux is play a turn with 15 seconds...
82 votes to NO - nor Half of the players that voted no play roper.. most only play ground games.. and the ppl that voted Yes mean that play roper and know that "CAN" be a nice "CHOICE" to play.
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very true titio! most of the yes votes are from the more respected, skilled, oldschool, strategic, players...
(b4 i get flamed... im not saying the no votes do not have any respected players)
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Don't say anything you can't prove. No offense.
notice you and error are the only ones saying anything? lmfao... i wonder why?
there is nothing for me to prove, its pretty much common knowledge.. but neither of you would know that, cuz u were no around when anubis played... u only know of him from that 1 replay lol
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very true titio! most of the yes votes are from the more respected, skilled, oldschool, strategic, players...
(b4 i get flamed... im not saying the no votes do not have any respected players)
yeh avirex, but the most of players that voted No, dont play roper.. =P .. i think that this questionary should be remaked by only the active ropers players " top 20 or 50 "
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very true titio! most of the yes votes are from the more respected, skilled, oldschool, strategic, players...
(b4 i get flamed... im not saying the no votes do not have any respected players)
yeh avirex, but the most of players that voted No, dont play roper..
What is wrong with that? If I wasn't a roper I would vote No also, because in my defense this adds another scheme to lose more points with... There should only be 1 roper scheme, and I really don't care which, both schemes are good, I just prefer Roper because yes, it's what I am used to, what's wrong with that? But if w2Rope went official, I would practise it and get good at it because I will always enjoy roper games, no matter what scheme is used...
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very true titio! most of the yes votes are from the more respected, skilled, oldschool, strategic, players...
(b4 i get flamed... im not saying the no votes do not have any respected players)
It's a very good thing that you have access to who voted yes and who voted no. Ridiculous. Stop this, you're just making an idiot out of yourself.
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very true titio! most of the yes votes are from the more respected, skilled, oldschool, strategic, players...
(b4 i get flamed... im not saying the no votes do not have any respected players)
It's a very good thing that you have access to who voted yes and who voted no. Ridiculous. Stop this, you're just making an idiot out of yourself.
no CMV, isnt ridiculous, he said the truth, u know..
What is wrong with that? If I wasn't a roper I would vote No also, because in my defense this adds another scheme to lose more points with... There should only be 1 roper scheme, and I really don't care which, both schemes are good, I just prefer Roper because yes, it's what I am used to, what's wrong with that? But if w2Rope went official, I would practise it and get good at it because I will always enjoy roper games, no matter what scheme is used...
btw, Komo is right too
the non ropers players, obvious that voted no to protect yourself.. unhappy have much more ground-players than ropers players.. at last roper is 1 scheme, ground schemes have an infinity of them.
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There are quadrillions of Roper variations. My first roper scheme was 15s turntime, 5s retreat time. I've also heard of some "drill first turn" (?) rule in the original w2 scheme, not sure about that tho.
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in the w2 scheme (played in w2 game) , u start in fixed positions, not teleported positions, then u dont have weapons in 1st turn, u just get ur cr8 and hide where u want. was 11 sec of turn and 5 to retreat.
can be have some variations at the wa roper scheme but the scheme used here in tus in only one. =P
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We've talked about W2roper scheme, In this new season we'll try W2rope scheme as a second choice to classic roper to see how the results will turn out. Upon any kind of disagreement the classic roper scheme must be played. , you cannot force players to pick W2Roper.
Monkey Island
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=*
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yeah, so bite the bullet and stfu :D
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I totally agree with komo, it's not about the scheme or the cr8s or even the rules. It's simply about the maps. Why do we need highly complex maps where you basically need to rr through a cavern to get a cr8. (I am myself a good rrer so I don't have a problem with it) But still can't get the reason. It makes no sense. Why are there maps where, even if you rope like a demigod, you can't possibly make it to the cr8 + attack. Have you ever noticed that lower skilled people usually ALWAYS pick harder maps? Not because they are more funnier, it's just so they have a higher chance of cr8 rape. When I hosted ropers I made maps that were fairly low, not that complex and I usually won them or lost because I f@#!ed up.
And Avi, you talk about w2 scheme and stuff, I have played w2 ropers, even ladder and almost all maps were really easy. And that's why in w2 the land was destructable, because it didn't matter if land got destroyed as the map itself was already easy. I have a w2 rope mappack and there is maximum 1-2 hard maps where I would say, ok there it could be possible not to get cr8 + attack.
Old players knew what is right, easier maps mean less cr8 rape. The solution is so easy, yet so less see it.
Most people blame the maps, pixel here, pixel there. f@#!ing hide, etc. and what do people change? The scheme/rules... yeah right wake up. ^^
It's basically like when we are playing on flat maps bng and people complain about straight zook shots, what will they do? Add a rule don't straight zook instead of changing map. ;)
And another thing, check all the very old competitive players, Jmoberg and his rival hamster. both players would nowadays suck ass because the maps are totally uncommon for them. And warmer maps were the same, open no weird cavern RR style. why would you warm on maps when in reality you rope on 3x harder maps, makes no sense. It's basically when you train for a 45 sec RR maps and practise on something like 20sec map. I remember back in the days (WL, Cl2k) it was normal for ropers to use maps from SfX, and they were so open and yet so fair. I don't remember any cr8 rape. If you were a top roper you could do any cr8 + attack.
fact is, back in the days there existed almost no cr8 rape. The technical thing added to Ropers added cr8 luck. People added more land, weird caverns and that shit to maps to make it interesting, that is right it is more interesting. But it is NOT useful to get rid of cr8 rape.
Another thing what I wanted to say is, basically most people believe the easier the map the higher the chances for a newb to win the match. Well if that would be the case newbs would win easy RR maps. Like 20sec turners. But that is not the case. And the same would happen for easier roper maps. Hell I would say even if you make 2 plain Hills in a map with almost zero obstacles still 99% of the time the more skilled roper will win...
And more fall damage like in w2 would add skill. in w2 if you messed up it was basically a GG, you could get up to 100 dmg if you naded someone well. And even if you hit someone on the bottom you could do a lot more dmg than you can with W:A scheme. That and waterdrop (another thing totally senseless added to the roper scheme in W:A in my opinion) should be changed.
Well I think that's enough for now, that's how I would get rid of cr8 luck. Just another scheme without looking at the source of the problem isn't doing good.
Last but not least, your w2 scheme ported to W:A added wind luck since zooka is the most powerful attack in your scheme. There are also impossible zooka shots with certain hides/wind so another luck factor added to the already existing cr8 luck. In worms2 the nade was the best. Zooka only if time ran out or hide was too hard for a decent nade so you simply destroyed the hide. -.-
I am pro w2 ropers. But at least port it 1:1. same scheme, same maps, same fd same weapon priority.
Whatever will be done, I hope it is at least fun. :p
P.S.: I would rather lose to someone who roped perfect (no fall, good attacks, fd) than to one f@#!ing cr8 that dropped in a hell of a cavern on the other island EVEN if I know the other player can't rope that well.
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Thank you Kai, and I couldn't agree more with everything you said...
I am in favour of backtracking maps, not updating schemes...
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It's the generation ttrr, when I was in SfX, sometimes in clanners it was even said, Map's too high, please reduce height. It was not uncommon to do Powerspikes in serious ropers, you had the room, VolcoM, SupremE (Makaveli the german one), Jmoberg and many more had awesome power spikes which they even used in league games. How many power spikers have we left? 0, maybe once in a lifetime someone does them but they disappeared long long time ago in clanners. You could cross the map within 4 seconds, do a powerspike. Get back up and still have about 3-4 seconds left even if the cr8 was at the possible worst position on the map. And there were people that could do that every turn, it was pure skill. Now you see people lurking on the map (compared to older maps). The generation ttrr (it began with the rise of ttrr, rr30seconds/45 it was still good) brought a lot of cr8 luck to the maps. It seems most map makers want to create maps where there are:
1. Extremely stupid caverns with RR aspects. (cr8 luck depends on the room there is inbweteen the land for cr8s, it's totally unnecessary)
2. A f@#!ing thousand hides with basically zero use in a real roper. (Why offer 15 useless hides when only one good hide is used; instead create 2-3 good ones on each side of the map) less possibly cr8 rape. fabrousse maps for example are not that high, but have a thousand hides. You think someone with a chainsaw randomly went through the map just to make hides with no real purpose.
3. Destroy the fluent creation of the map by the editor. Why the f@#! do people need to change so much in the map editor. It creates pixels, looks shitty and most of the time you can't improve an already good map. If a map is crap in the map editor you can't edit it to be good. If a map is good in the map editor leave it how it is. 1-2 hides on the left side, 1-2 in the middle and 1-2 good hides on the right. You don't need more, get it! You can leave the island alone, yeah the big land. No you don't need to make a lot of tiny holes, and you don't need to add a few torch like passages...
Sometimes I think the map would work perfectly for an elite map. So much caverns and hides, just awesome. If your map is capable of being an elite map it's a fail map.
Maybe I will post some randomly generated maps that, in my opinion, would certainly suit well for a roper match. Maybe even show some maps that are totally stupid to rope on to clarify what I want to express.
Over the time the maps got harder, if we would need something to change it's the turn time. 15 seconds are on some hardcore maps not even enough to make it to a crate on the same island. (You hide deep in the left side of the left island, cr8 is right side deep into the left island. If you use elite maps then at least use elite turn timer. ;) j/k
But I guess people are too used to this new kind of roping. (rr like)
Edit: Maybe it's generation elite, elite was not that popular years ago, by the look of some maps they are def. generation elite. xD There are maximum 4 worms in a roper, I'd say 8 hides maximum are well enough (if you decide not to pile). But what do we have? 20 hides +..... 20+ chances of cr8 rape. Smart map creation that is yup yup... -.-
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Sorry for doublepost but I don't want to create so many wall of texts.
My idea of hides on each island side:
General: A good hide should always have 1-2 positive effect and at least 1 negative effect. If a hide only has positive effects for the one hiding in it it will be abused.
Hide #1: Easy to knock worm, easy to attack without knock, hard to do fall damage. "Good for beginning of the match"
Hide #2: Hard to knock worm, easy or medium to attack without knock, but if you are a skilled knocker you can make easy fd to your opponent 50-55. "Beginning of match or midgame"
Hide #3: Hard to knock worm, hard to attack without knock, but if you knock you do fd it's 65+; would be in upper Part of the island. "Best for situations when you have low health so you need to avoid an attack"
This should be on left/right side.
On top of each island a little hide with a little risk of getting FD for the winning worm when it's near the end with a quite huge advantage.
That's it, noone can tell me someone can create 20+ hides that have a pattern, a purpose. They are just made for the love of making hides. When I pick maps out of the map editor I don't look how complex the map is, I look out for fair hides and fair map flow. (No bottleneck where you need to rr up)
really, we have so many creative map makers in the community. Has never anyone of you thought about defeating cr8 luck by making fair roper maps? I mean you know the problem, you know how you can reduce cr8 luck, why is noone attempting it? Stop making millions of RR maps. Make 50-100 ownage roper maps with fair hides, no pixels, a nice flow, and try to reduce cr8 luck to zero. (cr8 drops that are really impossible) You don't even need to be a good roper to know when a map has spots where you cant get cr8 + attack. :O
We can decide where the cr8s have to drop, the engine just randomly chooses one place. So we need to reduce the place for the cr8s that are too hard for 15 seconds. We can guide the engine to the places we want it to drop.
Let's stop being the slaves of the engine! Lets rise against the engine! xD
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this game will never evolve into anything other then what it is now.... because you, and others think the steps to take in order to fix the problems are easy maps? lmfao...
i guess thats ur opinion, but damn... how silly is it to downgrade the maps we play on, rather then upgrade your scheme??
if ur windows vista runs slow on ur PC, should u downgrade your windows? or upgrade ur PC? haha
but whatever, w2roper is already on tus.. so we can stop the debate...
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avirex, anubis is right though, it's got ridiculous, and fixing the maps is obviously the better choice because it has already been proven to work in the past, no scheme will fix these maps...
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yes, in the past when u were all trying to learn to shadow, it worked great... if u want an evolution the only solution evolve.... only solution evolve....
and komo, just because u agree with somone, does not make them right... somtimes u forget that :D
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Anu has very good points, yes it may be because im shit but it's much more fun to rope with some space heh and yes crate rape is also decreased and solid consistant roping with an eye to get the most damage possible is rewarded.
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Creating very tough roper maps is like creating w12w-s or 8000x8000+ shopper maps. It's not the scheme's fault, but the people's who love to exceed the borders. Don't want to get crateraped? Grab a map where you can rope smoothly, and voilá! No crate rape anymore. Don't complain about getting wet after jumping into the river. I agree with Anubis and Komo.
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Oh my... I cringed when I read anubis describing the amount of hides and quality of hides should be on a map... Players use the best 1 or 2 hides on a map all game, I just you want to make it more obvious which hides those are by limiting the amount... Tell me what is so fun about mindlessly fetching crates and returning to the same hide all game? Especially on one of these god forsaken miracle maps you guys preach about? Sounds like the most boring game of my life, if you ask me.
Hell I would say even if you make 2 plain Hills in a map with almost zero obstacles still 99% of the time the more skilled roper will win...
You mean 99% of the time whoever goes first will win?
avirex, anubis is right though, it's got ridiculous, and fixing the maps is obviously the better choice because it has already been proven to work in the past, no scheme will fix these maps...
If you want to talk about the past, why do you not mention how w2 evolved their roping scheme over the years?
No scheme will fix the maps? Make me the hardest roper map you can make, and w2roper will "fix" it... if you want to know how it "fixes" it, read the countless number of points and arguments we have made in this thread, or play the scheme.
From what I'm reading, you guys want roper to be played on some marshmallow and cupcake map, with one or two hides being used the whole game, and where not a shred of tactical thinking comes into play... Because if you ask me, ANY scheme which requires killing a worm has to have tactics to it.
1. Extremely stupid caverns with RR aspects. (cr8 luck depends on the room there is inbweteen the land for cr8s, it's totally unnecessary)
2. A f@#!ing thousand hides with basically zero use in a real roper. (Why offer 15 useless hides when only one good hide is used; instead create 2-3 good ones on each side of the map) less possibly cr8 rape. fabrousse maps for example are not that high, but have a thousand hides. You think someone with a chainsaw randomly went through the map just to make hides with no real purpose.
Would you not agree that rr is one of the best ways to show off your roping abilities and skill? So why not implement that into A ROPING SCHEME? w2roper allows you to play on these "Extremely stupid caverns with RR aspects", you aren't forced to get the crate... but the more skilled you are at roping in this environment, the more likely you will be able to get further crates and attack. If you are truly a better roper than your opponent, then your crate length span should be larger than his, thus making true skill pay off.
Another thing what I wanted to say is, basically most people believe the easier the map the higher the chances for a newb to win the match. Well if that would be the case newbs would win easy RR maps. Like 20sec turners. But that is not the case.
Every time you come up with a scenario, you compare a pro with a noob, which is why your arguments and points are so convoluted and just plain out wrong. You don't tus someone nowadays that totally has no rhythm at roping or idea what they are doing, except for a few exceptions... those of which you shouldn't have a problem with anyway...
w2roper was made so the more skilled player could win more often than not... For example, dibz could be playing alcoholico at a regular roper... dibz is a much more skilled and distinguished roper than alcoholico, but alcoholico is still good at roping... he can go and fetch crates just like anyone else who knows how to use a rope... What roper today was doing, was allowing the alcoholicos of ropers win against the dibzes because of bad crate drops. Period. There are no tactics, no chance for one another to outsmart each other for an edge. Period. If you had these 2 play on your plain, lower, wide roper maps for 100 matches, I am betting you the score would be closer to 50-50 than what w2roper has to offer. The better roper and better strategist will be able to win more often than not. Period.
Anubis, it is true if you play a noob at a 20 second turner, it won't be easier to win... but only because HE IS A NOOB. I know from experience the wider the rr map gets, the closer the times become when two good ropers are playing. The tighter the map gets, the bigger the gaps become. A time of 50 vs a time of 52 on an AZ01 map, for example, does not show much... but if you took those same ropers and put them on a tighter qp map, the difference would be greater.
Creating very tough roper maps is like creating w12w-s or 8000x8000+ shopper maps. It's not the scheme's fault, but the people's who love to exceed the borders. Don't want to get crateraped? Grab a map where you can rope smoothly, and voilá! No crate rape anymore. Don't complain about getting wet after jumping into the river. I agree with Anubis and Komo.
I don't like wxw, w4w, w8w, w12w, etc, at all, but what you are saying is that you want one of those wide maps with at most 4 walls with no hides... They are all over the place, and they take 2 minutes to make in ms paint... enjoy roping around 8 lines connected to each other
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guess there is not much more to say.. lol
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I guess these hard maps had been made for players who wanna improve their skills.
And there come back the "I wanna have fun and be better" and "I wanna win, even letting a arm".
On a side, you'll like to play on some kinds of maps for some reasons.
On the other side, it's all the contrary.
As long as there will be those 2 sides, it will be impossible for everybody to be happy.
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Dunno how to make this quote look good so I will use this as my response xD.
Oh my... I cringed when I read anubis describing the amount of hides and quality of hides should be on a map... Players use the best 1 or 2 hides on a map all game, I just you want to make it more obvious which hides those are by limiting the amount... Tell me what is so fun about mindlessly fetching crates and returning to the same hide all game? Especially on one of these god forsaken miracle maps you guys preach about? Sounds like the most boring game of my life, if you ask me.
Hell I would say even if you make 2 plain Hills in a map with almost zero obstacles still 99% of the time the more skilled roper will win...
You mean 99% of the time whoever goes first will win?
No I mean that the one using the weapons better will win. People actually try to make roper another RR. Well believe me or not but 5 years + ago I was a shitty RR but still managed to be extremely good in Ropers. A good Roper was capable of: Never fall, always get cr8 + attack, most of the time you could do fd to a worm even though it was hiding on the bottom of the map. Nowadays most map don't allow you to do cr8 + attack because it's impossible, would you TTRR where it is impossible to get through a part? I would not. And don't tell me that's because of the evolution of wormers, I was one of the wormers that evolved so fast and I didn't like RR although I was good at the ropes. Most NBR (cept volrin, wargod) guys weren't THAT good at RR but owned at roper. It used to be 2 different things. We had ownage RR and we had ownage Ropers. People made maps closer to RR or tighter/harder so people that are good at ropers now are even good at RR and vice versa. Thats WRONG!!! The schemes/maps should encourage you to rope different to start with. You should feel good at roper or good at rr not both at the same time if you havn't practised both schemes.
avirex, anubis is right though, it's got ridiculous, and fixing the maps is obviously the better choice because it has already been proven to work in the past, no scheme will fix these maps...
If you want to talk about the past, why do you not mention how w2 evolved their roping scheme over the years?
No scheme will fix the maps? Make me the hardest roper map you can make, and w2roper will "fix" it... if you want to know how it "fixes" it, read the countless number of points and arguments we have made in this thread, or play the scheme.
From what I'm reading, you guys want roper to be played on some marshmallow and cupcake map, with one or two hides being used the whole game, and where not a shred of tactical thinking comes into play... Because if you ask me, ANY scheme which requires killing a worm has to have tactics to it.
I have played w2 scheme, like I have said I have played w2 ladders, even got up to top10. Ah btw: The reason w2scheme has lower turn timer isn't even mentioned here. It's not because people couldn't set 15, or 14. But the maps they use + the a lot faster roping you have in w2 due the engine made the w2 scheme have less seconds. And the reason we have 15 seconds is because simply in early days before patch x.x W:A were not able to set 12-13 seconds.
1. Extremely stupid caverns with RR aspects. (cr8 luck depends on the room there is inbweteen the land for cr8s, it's totally unnecessary)
2. A f@#!ing thousand hides with basically zero use in a real roper. (Why offer 15 useless hides when only one good hide is used; instead create 2-3 good ones on each side of the map) less possibly cr8 rape. fabrousse maps for example are not that high, but have a thousand hides. You think someone with a chainsaw randomly went through the map just to make hides with no real purpose.
Would you not agree that rr is one of the best ways to show off your roping abilities and skill? So why not implement that into A ROPING SCHEME? w2roper allows you to play on these "Extremely stupid caverns with RR aspects", you aren't forced to get the crate... but the more skilled you are at roping in this environment, the more likely you will be able to get further crates and attack. If you are truly a better roper than your opponent, then your crate length span should be larger than his, thus making true skill pay off.
Yes, it's a good way to show RR skills, but it shouldn't be implemented in Roper because it should be a different scheme, not a rr with cr8s. And I have already said in my initial post: I am pro w2scheme, but use the exact same scheme, your scheme currently has some flaws that could be fixed by using the official w2 scheme. :)
Another thing what I wanted to say is, basically most people believe the easier the map the higher the chances for a newb to win the match. Well if that would be the case newbs would win easy RR maps. Like 20sec turners. But that is not the case.
Every time you come up with a scenario, you compare a pro with a noob, which is why your arguments and points are so convoluted and just plain out wrong. You don't tus someone nowadays that totally has no rhythm at roping or idea what they are doing, except for a few exceptions... those of which you shouldn't have a problem with anyway...
w2roper was made so the more skilled player could win more often than not... For example, dibz could be playing alcoholico at a regular roper... dibz is a much more skilled and distinguished roper than alcoholico, but alcoholico is still good at roping... he can go and fetch crates just like anyone else who knows how to use a rope... What roper today was doing, was allowing the alcoholicos of ropers win against the dibzes because of bad crate drops. Period. There are no tactics, no chance for one another to outsmart each other for an edge. Period. If you had these 2 play on your plain, lower, wide roper maps for 100 matches, I am betting you the score would be closer to 50-50 than what w2roper has to offer. The better roper and better strategist will be able to win more often than not. Period.
Anubis, it is true if you play a noob at a 20 second turner, it won't be easier to win... but only because HE IS A NOOB. I know from experience the wider the rr map gets, the closer the times become when two good ropers are playing. The tighter the map gets, the bigger the gaps become. A time of 50 vs a time of 52 on an AZ01 map, for example, does not show much... but if you took those same ropers and put them on a tighter qp map, the difference would be greater.
Maybe I put the wrong term, I didn't want to say newbs, I just wanted to express lower skilled ropers than the current bext ropers. So sorry for that missinformation. I still believe the more skilled roper will win vs. a lower skilled roper when maps are a lot easier. Currently the lower skilled roper can win vs. the higher skilled one. (W:A Roper is still the offical one if both parties don't agree on (w2)roper scheme.
And why the f@#! have you changed the official w2 scheme! You talk about tactics yet you get rid of destructable land, that part made it a lot more tactical than your crippled w2 scheme!
Creating very tough roper maps is like creating w12w-s or 8000x8000+ shopper maps. It's not the scheme's fault, but the people's who love to exceed the borders. Don't want to get crateraped? Grab a map where you can rope smoothly, and voilá! No crate rape anymore. Don't complain about getting wet after jumping into the river. I agree with Anubis and Komo.
I don't like wxw, w4w, w8w, w12w, etc, at all, but what you are saying is that you want one of those wide maps with at most 4 walls with no hides... They are all over the place, and they take 2 minutes to make in ms paint... enjoy roping around 8 lines connected to each other
No, what CMV means is that you shouldn't try to make the hardest roper map on earth with a million obstacles and then complain it's the scheme fault. The map makers try to bend the borders of whats possible but noone tests if it is actually possible and still the maps get used in LEAGUE games. BnG maps used to be shitty, but then people found a way to make even hides on both sides, BnG Maps sometimes had uneven hides, the team that started first got a better side and the match was over if the guys could play BnG well. Noone has ever thought about a standard for Roper maps. We even have a standard for TTRR maps, most maps are 40-55 in league matches. It's doable for everyone. I dont see 90+ seconds ultra tight maps which only 2-3 RRers can do well. We need something like that in ropers too.
And as final words:
We have fair maps, in TTRR, in BnG, in Elite. Why can't we have fair maps in Roper?
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Just had a fun roper with dark and he took an usual map that is used for ropers. The map itself isn't that hard to rope on but when I saw the hides I was like WTF is this supposed to do good cept for cr8 rape. I will show you what I mean by putting worms into the hides/areas which are totally dumb and explain why.
Pause game after all worms have been placed.
Vader: Wtf is this? Noone will ever hide there, the chances of getting FD are immense and even zooking is easy as shit. Fill area with Land.
Baumwurzel: This hide would be an ok hide, it's not really the best but it would fit for a hide. You can easily attack the worm and doing FD is hard. (Remember 1 positive and 1 negative)
Behemoth: Ultra f@#!ing useless hide, easy FD, easy to attack and even easy to zook. Fill with land.
Astgeflecht: This hide is sweet for a 1st turn anti zook hide. After that is becomes useless due the high chance of FD and you can attack worm easily even without knock. Hide can stay because of its tactical anti zook.
Bolt Thrower: This hide is again very useless, easy knock, easy attack, high chances of FD. Fill with land.
Blumengestrüpp: WTF? Fill with land. It's just getting cr8s there.
Amon Amarth: The whole area down there is extremely bullshit and only does the thing we hate: drops of cr8s we can't possible make an attack after. The hide where the worm is standing is good, it should be transported to the left side to have at least 2 good hides on the left side.
Unterholz: All the 5 hides are useless, well the one above Unterholz is at least a tiny bit ok.
Looking at this map all I can see are 2, maximum 3 hides that are useful in a roper match, the rest is just space for cr8s that can rape you.
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Shyguy: "If you want to talk about the past, why do you not mention how w2 evolved their roping scheme over the years?
No scheme will fix the maps? Make me the hardest roper map you can make, and w2roper will "fix" it... if you want to know how it "fixes" it, read the countless number of points and arguments we have made in this thread, or play the scheme.
From what I'm reading, you guys want roper to be played on some marshmallow and cupcake map, with one or two hides being used the whole game, and where not a shred of tactical thinking comes into play... Because if you ask me, ANY scheme which requires killing a worm has to have tactics to it."
w2 has NOTHING to do with WA ropers, NOTHING, Yes, roping came from w2, but the 2 are TOTALLY different and shouldn't even be compared.
Now we have that out the way, sorry but w2Roper, doesn't fix anything, if you want to think it does, thats fair enough it's your opinion and I have my opinion.
I'll play 10 ropers with you, on maps of my kind, with the original scheme, and 10 ropers with you, on maps of your picking, with your scheme, and I bet, if we both rope consistent every game, the more consistent one of us will win MY VERSION more than they will win YOUR VERSION.
At the end of the day I don't really care, I don't have to play w2 Ropers in leagues so i'm happy, and if I decide to pick Roper, I can host with one of my maps, and the person who ropes better will win, and if I win, I will have some pride because it was skill, not crate luck, and if I lose, i'll be happy for the winner because he played better than me, and didn't win because of crates.
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ur right komo... your absolutely right
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[Offtopic]
and if I lose, i'll be happy for the winner because he played better than me, and didn't win because of crates.
Great to hear this. :)
[/Offtopic]
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this is a fkn long ass thread but im understandin a lot of the first post etc... roper is broken in wa
here's another w2 inspired rope scheme that plays pretty much the same but u get more retreat
basics are:
- destructible terrain, best played with maps with thin boundarys so the map opens up as u play
- 10s turn time + 10s retreat
- no cba - same strategy as avis but this time u get time to attack and can get crate after attack
- no delay on weapons
- higher fd like w2 - u dont wanna fall + be careful of hiding on top
optionals:
- set sd to whatever u want
- water drop, dont matter on and off
same strategy in that u dont wanna hide close to ur opponent cos they get easy attack and 10s to rope to their crate
still ain't perfect scheme but plays fun and is more strategic than get crate (lucky) and hide close to opponent
see replay for example, watch in fast forward u can get the idea pretty quick (press 5 on ur keyboard)
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ps. this scheme is better cos u dont have the same fkn hide all game. u can actually use the rest of the 85%+ of the map.
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Couldn't agree more with Anubis.
Why do you think I made the 50 qp maps and the 15ish Magic maps?
Because that ever glorious moment when you get a league rr, and some dude picks a map that only he has ever RRed and guess what, it's a f@#!ing clusterf@#!. (Yes, 2 f@#!s)
Did you know a bad roper can beat you on his own special 8turn "pixel rope-snag hiding" map?
[important note: I prefer Herms more interesting maps. (Love his evils) but you cant do that to people in league.]
QP maps are the level playing field of RR
some 2 turn some 3ish and 3 of them are 30sec maps. noone gets badlucked.
Roper needs to be on level playing field maps.
"map too high" "to close to ceiling" pick again.
I remember Jmoberg and many more saying no to the bullshit.
Personally I can rope on either, but wont.
Make it fun, thats why we rope.
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just read some of anubis old post....
anubis the purpose of making this "w2roper" scheme was to bring a better, more skill, more tactic scheme to w:a, i had to keep in mind how f@#!ing stubborn everyone is, and how they will do anything to resist change... so i knew drastic changes would not work... i tried to make a nice blend of both w2, and w:a schemes... i guess me calling it "w2roper" scheme was a mistake, because it threw many people off (that dont know any better) and said "wtf, thats not the official w2 roper scheme"
well, maybe your memory is gone anubis, but w2 never had an official scheme, everyone played different, the higher ranked picked their scheme, and told their opponent the variations.... for example.. IRwlz played with 3 worms, whats official about that? some people played with no zooks, some played with no power weaps, some played with a f@#!ing super sheep, i played with an instant mine on the map ... so you tell me what is the official w2 scheme, and lets give it a try.
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I won't read up on a thread already discussed to it's fullest 1 year and a half ago (my last post in 22 August 2011). Don't necro old threads lol.
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you read... i dont blame you for not responding... just sick of people talking when thye dont know wth they talking about...
komo was notorious for it in this thread, and judging by this page (im not going to read back either) you contributed..
everyone was so against change, but truth be told any one that actually gave this scheme a half a chance said it was a HUGE improvement...
its a shame this game will never evolve passed the newb f@#!ing 15 second scheme you all learned to rope on... oh well.