Elite Map problems

[Casso]

cool another topic about elite maps, maybe someone can answer my question now:

whats the trouble in playin a hhc map (cause everybody knows them) instead of a selfmademap?

most people i know need about 1 or 2 minute creating map (atleast i do). isnt this an unfair advantage for the host cause he got the map already in his mind?

for example: even if i dont want, my head already starts thinking about possible hides, thats long before my opponent can do this.

dont get me wrong, i love self made maps, its so nice to see the different style of each wormer, but i always got this question in my mind.

Not all use HHC's Map so only who use it have an advantage. If each player know the map I don't see any problems but who know better the map can have an advantage.

This is really a nice question, one more reason to use MapGen or random map (even if I do not like)

[Peja]

cooooolooooooors

[Gabriel]

peja
gtfo

[Ray]

peja
gtfo

These are the insightful comments which make it worth reading these forums.

[KoreanRedDragon]

The root of the problem here isn't that people edit maps but rather that HHC's "examples" seem to have made everyone think that an Elite map is supposed to be 95% terrain and 5% open space. This by itself eliminates a bunch of different strategic approaches to playing Elite and makes the scheme easier to master and the matches more boring to watch. When you've seen one, you've pretty much seen them all.

But yeah, using saved maps is even worse. You should just take a little longer to generate a nice new map before the game, reseed the objects a little to make it more complex and start playing. Intermediate experts are laughing at how retarded things have become and nobody is noticing that. A few of us older Elite enthusiasts are crying in a corner and nobody seems to notice that either.

[nino]

i remember when the system used to make so f@#!ing nice random maps. nowadays i dunno what happened if was patch or wtf, but it is really hard to get a playable random map for elite, u need to edit a bit. but ye saved maps sucks.

shit nostalgia   old times porra old timesssssss

[franz]

I'll play on any elite map, so it's not a huge issue, at least to me.
if someone see's obvious map abuse, it can be handled then, maybe make it public. case by case basis I'd say.

[Crazy]

I can agree that the maps in elite contains too much terrain KRD, and it IS kind of boring to watch those games. I prefer an open map over a map that is build/edited a lot. Some players feel the same way, a good example is Nino. I have settled down with this though, thinking it`s a part of the developement of the scheme.

Elite has changed a lot over the years, and you have played you`re part in this change as well KRD.  The power settings of the rope, the removal of crates and so on. To this date I still don`t understand why crates were removed from the scheme, when the majority of wormers voted to keep it as it was.

[KoreanRedDragon]

Do you have the map complexity slider thing set to maximum, nino? It's the thing marked with number 25 in this guide:

http://worms2d.info/Map_Editor_Guide

I'm usually able to generate really nice maps, especially after I reseed the objects a few times. The NNN guys don't even do that, they just click on the map preview in the host/join lobby, and the maps used in this year's CWT have been mostly great anyway. Really shouldn't be a problem, it doesn't take me more than a minute or two, even though I'm really really picky when it comes to maps.

[lacoste]

Totally what KRD said. Now close the topic please.

Edit: Well, leave first Ray's comment, then Casso's, then Dulek's, then KRD's, then nino's, then KRD answering nino and then topic can be closed.

[Alien]

so, who helps casso with his probs now, doesn't matter if you guys don't like his elite map pack idea ?

[KoreanRedDragon]

I have settled down with this though, thinking it`s a part of the developement of the scheme.

I just can't see it as evolution if it made the scheme objectively worse, especially by reducing the tactical variety and the need to anticipate (and defend against) a bunch of different possibilities.

Elite has changed a lot over the years, and you have played you`re part in this change as well KRD.  The power settings of the rope, the removal of crates and so on. To this date I still don`t understand why crates were removed from the scheme, when the majority of wormers voted to keep it as it was.

The way I remember it, the guys on the FB staff were actually reluctant to take crates out of Elite. After talking to the scheme's best players at the time, Kiros decided to go forward with the change anyway and risk the wrath of the oldschoolers. It turned out that it was the best thing that ever happened to Elite and if not sooner, that should have become obvious a few years later when NNN took crates out of Inter as well, and made playing it cool again. This was definitely one of the key accomplishments that place Kir at the top of my personal best-league-admins chart, by the way. But that's slightly off-topic here.

Source: http://www.laene.nl/CE/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1250

[franz]

yea, I actually remember being the one that started the discussion of removing crates. you'll see my thread here: http://www.laene.nl/CE/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1139

[Crazy]

Dope posted a poll about it, and the majority of those who voted, votes yes to keep the crates in the scheme: http://www.laene.nl/CE/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1839&highlight=elite

Kiros never had a democratic way of approaching the case, he never included the entire community to share their opinion. He was open for discussion about it yeah, but he limited the decision making to as you pronounce it KRD, "the best players of the scheme". This is exactly why I find MI a thousand times better league admin then Kiros, he lets everyone share their opinion instead of a small group of people.  I am confident that TUS league will stay alive for a greater amount of time then FB did for that exact reason.

This is very off topic yeah, but do you still honestly find this a good way to run a league, KRD?

[Peja]

"Elite without cr8s is like the internet without porn." awesome

well i could link to this poll about karma