The Big Religion/God Debate

[Ramone]

...
I guess I will never know..

Nah man! Don't be desperate, if U are really interested to understand it just go read a few Wiki pages about it and I'm sure U'll understand it.. It's easier to understand Astrophysics than a Bible i.e... ;x

[Prankster]

that video is just amazing! and when galaxies looks like the stars on the sky... and the whole thing is infinite... woah, thats crazy! and even here on the earth our mind is limitated to understand and think in 4 dimensions...

[Cueshark]

Ok, so bringing the shoutbox conversation into a more suitable environment.

I would really appreciate it if someone religious could explain how the bible can be used as evidence for the existence of god.

Obviously the bible has some very nice sections but also has some very nasty sections where god contradicts himself and condones murder when it is one of his holy commandments.  He also allows murder for reasons which would never be allowed in modern society.

For example,

God allows parents to murder their children if the child strikes or swears at the parent.
God condones the murder of women for a variety of reasons.
God condones the murder of homosexuals.
God condones murder for worshipping another god other than himself.

The list goes on.

So which bits of the bible are right and which parts are wrong? 

In my opinion, any god with the awe-inspiring power, sophistication and intelligence to create a universe would not write this....

"A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death"  (Leviticus 21:9)

[nino]

cue if theres something that peoples really dies for it it, religion and soccer lol


this book is just a guide to control peoples and say what they have to do, in the name of god(cos god peoples respect)

look you cant go against god, if u do that then you are senteced with death.

biblie is bullshit imo, nice words and nasty words but there are many books with nice words too, peoples just dont care much cos isnot a book written by "god".

lol funny thing..not even the pope believes in god protection cos when hes outside in public he uses a car with bulletproff xDDD

[MonkeyIsland]

@Cue, (Since you bumped this topic)

I'm not religious to answer you but I live in a religious country. Why you are not considering the change that has been done to bible through time (and all other religious books)?
I mean the editing/adding that people did to it. Bible is so old. People used to rewrite history the way the wanted. Some crazy priests could have add a line to it to make bible make more sense to his time events. I'm saying it is not possible to compare 2 lines in such books.
People believed in many magic stuff in the past 100-200 years, imagine what they were believing in 1000-2000 years go.

[ShyGuy]

@Cue, (Since you bumped this topic)

I'm not religious to answer you but I live in a religious country. Why you are not considering the change that has been done to bible through time (and all other religious books)?
I mean the editing/adding that people did to it. Bible is so old. People used to rewrite history the way the wanted. Some crazy priests could have add a line to it to make bible make more sense to his time events. I'm saying it is not possible to compare 2 lines in such books.
People believed in many magic stuff in the past 100-200 years, imagine what they were believing in 1000-2000 years go.

^ he is right... God did not write the Bible, it is just his inspired word.. most of it has been passed down orally from generation to generation... finding literate people to write things was expensive. 

Also, Cue, biblical scholars usually say taking single verses out of context to prove a point is a logical fallacy.

for the record, I am secular.

[nino]

shy that means that u can be a minister when older? thats not a joke about u not waking for months even being 17 btw

[NinjaCamel]

Cue, that doesnt mean that he should really die. Its just example about how wrong something is.

Btw, why u r so interested about all these things as if u think its just bullshit at the same time?

[Rok]

I don't know why everybody quote the Old Testament so happily, it proves and helps nothing in this religion debate. Cueshark, I could agree with almost everything you wrote in this thread, but you seriously believe anyone but the most die-hard fanatics believes in anything that's written in Old Testament? Like Mir said, you can't read it literally and

Also, Cue, biblical scholars usually say taking single verses out of context to prove a point is a logical fallacy.

.

The only relevant thing that still counts in todays world is the 10 commandments, which are basically nothing more than basic moral principles that any sane person in the world today can and should follow. For example the first sentence of the bible: "In the beginning, God created Sky and Earth" (my own translation). Many atheists laugh about how people can believe this and that God created the universe in 7 days. But considering that it was written like 3000, 4000, dunno, years ago, couldn't it be a clever allegory of big bang and evolution and stuff?

Besides that, Christ rephrased and negated a lot of things from the Old Testament. It's written in New Testament and it's enough for anyone who might choose to live a good Christian's life.

But I agree, The Bible itself doesn't de facto prove the existence of God, nor was written by the God, but clearly by men. And don't take me wrong, I'm Catholic by tradition, not by belief

[Cueshark]

It's just that everyone religious talks about how much they love god.  The only 'evidence' we have for his teachings is the bible.  It is the word of god. 

I shouldn't be able to find that kind of filth written in the bible if it's author is so awesome and loving.

I suppose that's a very simplistic argument but I am very capable of chaning my opinions and updating my view point.

[Dub-c]

God created everything and that is how everything exists. What created god? How does god exist?

[DarkOne]

But considering that it was written like 3000, 4000, dunno, years ago, couldn't it be a clever allegory of big bang and evolution and stuff?

I think you just touched the reason atheists have problems with religion I think most atheists have no problem with people having their own religion and their own ways of dealing with it.
The problem is with people who claim authority and use the bible (or really any other religious book) to serve their own purposes.
Whenever there's a passage they like, it's god's will and it's a moral law that must be adhered to.
Whenever there's a passage that they don't like, well, then it's a cultural thing and has to be seen in the context of a couple of thousand years ago.

As for the 10 commandments: should children honour abusive parents? Should hospitals be closed on sunday?

[Rok]

But considering that it was written like 3000, 4000, dunno, years ago, couldn't it be a clever allegory of big bang and evolution and stuff?

I think you just touched the reason atheists have problems with religion I think most atheists have no problem with people having their own religion and their own ways of dealing with it.
The problem is with people who claim authority and use the bible (or really any other religious book) to serve their own purposes.

Just to make things clear, I'm not one of those who interprets Bible literally. And it's true what you said, the cause of all religion based problems (wars, prejudice, etc.) lies in people who are not able to use critical judment but rather blindly follow the guidance of those you mentioned. (I guess that's what you were saying?)

As for the 10 commandments: should children honour abusive parents? Should hospitals be closed on sunday?

Of course not. Common sense still applies.

And thirdly, the code is more what you call "guidelines" than actual rules.

[Cueshark]

So are we all in agreement that the bible is not 'divine'?

[Rok]

Unless people who wrote it were inspired by some divine voice, then yes, I agree.