balanced t17 scheme

[Senator]

Would be nice to hear more opinions about Chicken's scheme compared to current TUS scheme. ropa? MI?

Crate probabilities in Chicken's scheme:

All other weapons: 3,9%
Shotgun & cows: 2,4%
Homings & aqua: 2%
Banana: 1,2%

Crate probabilities in TUS scheme:

Flamethrower & old woman: 7%
Dyna, sheep, sheep launcher: 6,8%
Holy: 6,2%
Axe, bow, minigun: 5,3%
Cows: 5,1%
Cluster, uzi, shotgun, grenade, bazooka, mine, skunk, petrol: 3,1%
Homings & aqua: 1,2%
Mole, mortar, baseball bat, banana, handgun: 0,6%

As mentioned, I like Chicken's version because you have to cope with less powerful weapons and end up using girders more before SD, not just for SD camping. I think crate probabilities for homings, aqua and banana are fine in TUS scheme, though. How about these crate probabilities then?

All other weapons: 4,1%
Shotgun & cows: 2,9%
Homings & aqua: 1,3%
Banana: 0,6%

[Aerox]

I think my opinion is already pretty clear on this subject

anyway, what about air strike and napalm strike? any difference in crate probability on those? 

[Anubis]

Do they finally include you in the decision making, ropa? Better late than never.

[Aerox]

what decision making?

I don't think my opinion on this is going to be implemented, it's too drastical, people can't play on islands, they even refuse to play in caverns that don't consist in two layers, your typical team17. Thing is, playing on open maps would solve everything that's wrong with Team17. Which is a scheme much more similar to Intermediate in nature, than what people actually play in practice nowadays, so it would mean they would need to learn from scratch, and it wouldn't feel like their team17 in which girder abuse can slow the game to no end, or where they have to account to many more menaces when darksiding, specially considering girdering is not so easy on an island, nor is proteting yourself, when airstrikes are avaliable.

it becomes a much quicker scheme, one in which one could argue luck plays a bigger role, but so does weapon usage (weapons have more uses in an open map, because open maps have caverns but cavern maps don't have endless sky) either way we will not know how important a role luck would play, in comparison to the actual scheme, unless people actually started playing on regular maps, the rest we do know, since it's common sense.

[lacoste]

Both closed and open map styles have some serious disadvantages unless certain weapons were removed from crates for island play. Initial placement isnt that big of a deal. As of caverns, be it dual layer or even a regular one, no weapon tweaks nor "perfect" probabilities will "fix it" because the core of it is broken - ~13 minutes is simply not enough for the vast majority of games to end before SD or shortly after, and usually the most optimal play for SD in caverns is to secure good position and wait it out for the final blow, or if both of you dont have an answer by the 30+ minute mark, sink and try again (of course its not that simple and optimal play doesnt have to involve bitching SD, but you get what i mean)

[Impossible]

God bless t17-genius ropa for an incredible discovery, took us 15 years to realize we have to play t17 on the island maps

are you serious? you're all noobs played like 300 t17 games and yet acting like you are the last hope of this scheme, suggesting to use island maps today, do you plan to suggest removing luck-based crates tomorrow? do you even have WA installed on your pc? if so, id suggest you to go play intermediate

t17 have huge number of sd tactics such as zone controlling or bluffing, its pretty much like poker, if you feel your opponent got nice cards in preflop you can go agressive on him, start bluffing, go defensive or make it look so

and as poker, as any other game, t17 obviously have its own luck factor, so why dont you instead of crying about it here go to poker forums and tell people they played poker wrong for 450 years because there is still luck factor involved

[avirex]

Yeah, if you change t17 to island maps, your not tweaking the scheme for improvements... Your changing the entire scheme... It's like if you decided to play roper in cavern maps...It's now an entirely different scheme.... its called shoppa.

Now ropa can tell us all how dumb we are, and how genius he is, "the man with all the answers"  lol please ropa, can you tell us again that one story about how smart you are?

[lacoste]

so why dont you instead of crying about it here go to poker forums and tell people they played poker wrong for 450 years because there is still luck factor involved

Hes not talking about luck factor tho..

t17 have huge number of sd tactics such as zone controlling or bluffing, its pretty much like poker, if you feel your opponent got nice cards in preflop you can go agressive on him, start bluffing, go defensive or make it look so

The same can be done on island maps except its harder.

Im not trying to join some revolution here to change t17 scheme, im just signing up under the "caverns are so flawed so maybe we could try islands for laughs"

[Aerox]

Team17 was never intented to be played on dual caverns. Who intended it? League t17 was played in regular caverns and rarelly dual layer, and islands, for fun.

However, dual cavern became the norm because it has the most uniqueness to it. Getting on roof, going from top layer to low with bungee/chute. And therefore people used it as a natural filter (to differentiate team17ers, from those who didn't play the scheme), just like they do with every other scheme, there's countless examples like making bng anchored, deciding AFR for shoppers and fo course...

you know what? too much cringe to handle really. Impo, you started playing in 2003 or 2004, sure 12 years is almost 15 or 16, but fact remains, you've lived the dark ages and missed big part of the decision making, evolution, history, and good old times, so stop being a pretentious little f@#!ing twat, when everytime you've dared said anything about this game's mechanics it's been to make yourself a public fool.

Avirex, you are a bitter senile young idiot, but I'm like you're back at two line bitter posts trying to get at me influenced by this whole grudge you hold because of jealousy, I like you better now than these last couple of days where you were posing as someone articulate and getting involved in debates fetching for the support of the people and most likely trying to show you're not much of an iliterate as we all think.

There's no such a thing as an argument in either of your two posts. If you desire to put one forward, I swear I'll take the time to go through each and every worm related point and educate you on having unique thoughts and not being a tool.

edit: I do have WA installed. You want to challenge me Impossible?

[Husk]

host a cup with these settings and if it gets good feedback I'd say u have a better chance changing something than arguing in this topic

[Aerox]

host a cup with these settings and if it gets good feedback I'd say u have a better chance changing something than arguing in this topic

you're right, but no chance in hell

not only because I don't have time, but why would I suddenly surrender to the ways of this website or its people? cups, communities, way of changing schemes, I think all these things have contributed into making WA a worse place, so excuse me for not supporting it

but most importantly, because it would be a total waste of time. People don't want changes. They want to win. And very few people understand this game well enough to be improvise. So Impo and co, they would lose in an island, because they can't play their poker game which only an ignorant wouldn't realize doesn't happen also on islands, and only him would call girdering while waiting for a dynamite playing poker, but hey, he talks about bluffing in a turn based game! "I'm going to move my worm up here so my opponent thinks I got a dyno!". 

[Senator]

lol I asked for opinions only on Chicken23's scheme versus TUS scheme (difference only in crate probabilities). Now someone mind give support for Chicken's version or explain why TUS scheme is better?

[MonkeyIsland]

I gotta get back playing and it a go.

(There's a chance I get back playing again)

[avirex]

lol.. you are so full of yourself ropa, we all know how much you love yourself, but I think your taking it up even another notch when you suggest im jealous of you...

I think your posts are arrogant as f@#!.. everyone that has ever read TUS forums thinks you arrogant as f@#!, some enjoy the humor that is mixed in with your arrogance though.. Ill admit, sometimes you are funny, but you have that silver spoon your father put wedged so far up your ass, that its hard to laugh with you.

also: you don't even care what happens ropa, because you don't play the game... all you care about is some sort of debate, regardless if your passionate about the change, your just want the debate... you wont be getting it from me.. because i don't care.. i do not think switching to island maps is a good idea, regardless of what you post next, and i doubt there will be too many people that will think its a good idea...


that's about as far as my argument in this thread is going to go... because i don't give a shit if we play t17 on a "burning girders" style map... i just don't care... so my closing argument is "i don't like the 2 islands idea suggested by 'TheBrain' "

[Anubis]

Everyone should love himself, it's a good thing for your psyche. Even being full of yourself is better than being depressive and doubting everything you say/do.