barman and his bng skillz

[Impossible]

but now that barmans outed for it, everyone is  all "oo i do that too" *high five*

I posted this not because of barman but because of my inactivity, if I still would keep trying to win classic league I could rather post how sad everything is but now I dont really care much

[Random00]

It's simply meaningless to ban visual aids, because it's not possible to monitor them.

I stopped using visual aids when they became illegal at tus.
But ye, for most people its probably meaningless, thats true...

[TheKomodo]

Is that why you stopped playing so much Classic TuS? 

j/k

[Aerox]

the only thing that bothers me is, in mablaks thread asking if visual aids should be legal, no one really said much... but now that barmans outed for it, everyone is  all "oo i do that too" *high five*

well, SPW per instance was against it I recall. Now he's okay with it because he probably does it.

As with mostly anyone, once in the boat you vote for the captain.

[TheWalrus]

Everyone uses some kind of visual aid in bng, that's common sense. You have to be able to measure distances to something.

I don't, and I can't assume that everyone else does as well.  It's a game, not going to treat it like a science.

leroy, its what the game has always been...

Thats not even close to being true avi.  The best bng players of early WA didn't notch, the way in which geniusma, psydome, MPH, or dw33b aimed would have made that impossible.

the only thing that bothers me is, in mablaks thread asking if visual aids should be legal, no one really said much... but now that barmans outed for it, everyone is  all "oo i do that too" *high five*

I agree, jump on the cheatwagon, people.  There is plenty of room.  Pretty sure this thread will turn into people like SPW, prank, and impo saying, "Err, the ruler taped to my screen, yeah, I don't use it for league games.  Yeah, thats the ticket!"

I hate to continue cock riding Komo after praising him in the other thread for his warming skills, but I love that the best bng player beat all of your notching monkey asses again and again.  Poetic justice.

[Mablak]

Bar's argument doesn't really hold water, i.e. that it's more efficient not to use aids. You don't need a cumbersome table to look at, you can just print usable shots and their notches right below the distances themselves. Wherever the worm is, you would be able to instantly see all the shots that could hit. You do of course still need other BnG skills, but it's a definite advantage, especially if you happened to forget some notch distances.

I'm with avi, the only thing that bothers me is that people like SPW know about the no visual aids rule, but aren't arguing to reverse it when they use aids themselves.

The only way I see to actually save BnG, if people really want to save it, is to mandate webcam streaming, at least for playoff games. I mean you can get some cheap ones for 10-20 bucks, it would probably take like 2 hours of effort for most people. The question is if people care enough, I would be willing to try it.

[Prankster]

Everyone uses some kind of visual aid in bng, that's common sense. You have to be able to measure distances to something.

I don't, and I can't assume that everyone else does as well.  It's a game, not going to treat it like a science.

Yes, you do, you won't be able to improve otherwise. Of course it's not necessarily a ruler taped to the screen, but oncounsciously remembering object sizes, your screen size, maybe the buttons, or anything you don't even realize. It's psychology, don't know if you look at that as science, or not..
But okay, you have a point that it's not the same as intentionally playing/practicing with direct tools.

The question is: how do you plan to check if someone's using them? And more importantly, how would you deal with the difference between those who already learned the perfect distances by that way and those who don't? barman used to play in a2b (or a2b tourneys at least), he rocked without notching as well.

I'm just saying this is something that's out (and that was in the game physics since ever - correct me if I'm wrong here) and you can't undo it.

And for the record, I'm not using any tools, stop saying that. I'd be against (direct) visual aids too, if there would be sense in it. But I find equal chances more important, since we're talking about an open league here. I can imagine a closed league tho, where manner and ethics are in focus instead of rules, but that's not TUS.

[avirex]

walrus:  ok walrus, i don't mean notching has been around since the start of w:a.. cmon man.. lol don't take it so literal..

leroy said "so this is what w:a has come to" but it *almost* always has been.. just lately notching has been more exposed, and popular, but notching has been around long before wwp was released, however long ago that was.. and i can not speak for all the names you mentioned but I'm pretty sure psydome knew how to notch... the only difference back then was people only notched 3s and 4s really.. and maybe some other shots, but barman really took it to another level... I'm not saying he was the first to do this.. but he really turned bng inside out with his notching table lol..  so I'm not sure if you thing notching is new walrus... but its not.. its been around longer then most of the wormers in this community...


prankster, that's the most asinine thing i have ever heard, comparing knowing the widths of terrains, etc to having a pixel ruler.. c'mon man...

anyway, its honestly safe to say that up until recently notching has been w:a's best kept secret,.and as cheesy as that is to say.. i think its true..

and being that there is no way to really know if anyone is using aids, we should just legalize the aids, to make it a level playing field.. because tbh i don't believe for a second that barman stopped using the aids, and after this thread its obvious he's not the only one.

[Prankster]

I just got to the conclusion that it's not the same, avi.

[Impossible]

The only way I see to actually save BnG, if people really want to save it, is to mandate webcam streaming, at least for playoff games. I mean you can get some cheap ones for 10-20 bucks, it would probably take like 2 hours of effort for most people. The question is if people care enough, I would be willing to try it.

unfortunetly I have a habit to play playoffs nude :|

[TheWalrus]

walrus:  ok walrus, i don't mean notching has been around since the start of w:a.. cmon man.. lol don't take it so literal..

i didn't say anything about the start of wa, you just have to let me know when to start guessing and you stop me when you get to how long you actually meant.

[Devilage]

Now I can see why noobs own in bng nowdays, exact shit happens with new roperacers, I'm sure there is an important amount of players cheating, as always monkeyisland seems to sit and watch, maybe he should stop banning ppl because insulting and start investigating a bit, ah wait that sounds stupid, it's not his job lol, well, some1 teach me nothing D;

[avirex]

walrus...  you made it seem in your post as if notching is a newer thing... its been around for over 10 years i would say... is that close enough to forever??   im just letting you know (if you didn't know already) and others, notching is nothing new.


devilage...  what barman is doing is only cheating if we consider it as cheating... Mablak opened a discussion about this very thing months ago, and no one admitted to using visual aids then, but now all of a sudden everyone is coming out of the wood works saying they have been, and continue to use such visual aids (just not as extensive as barmans)

i think in order to even the playing field, we should as a community accept any visual aids, being there is no way to stop it/determine if someone is actually using them... and personally i dont see really anything wrong with having notes, if you want to be that competitive in this game to the point you take notes, and refer to them in games, you should be able to.... but thats something we all need to agree on, so everyone has equal opportunity and advantage.


also dev, if you have not noticed your asshole attitude gets you nowhere... not in clans, not in complaint forums, and not here. if you think someone is cheating in roperace why dont you f@#!ing investigate? what in the hell makes you think that its MonkeyIslands job to do such things???  is it not enough he spent hours and hours, days and days, months and months making this site? and updating this site, and continues to maintain it day after day for our enjoyment... not only has he invested his time, but im sure he has invested money in this massive project we call TUS... if you dont think he is doing enough, maybe you should donate a large amount of money to him, to make up for his time, maybe then he can spend more time here trying to please your arrogant ass.  *rant over*

[Ryan]

Thank f@#! there are schemes other than bng

[SPW]

prankster and some others are right. You cant forbid visual aids because you cant measure it, there is no proof. Like prankster wrote almost every people using some visual help, a little help like an object which gives you a hand to get about the right angle or power or a big one when creating some roler etc.

You cant control a full community and I would never trust all. Visual aids is just a part of almost every game, not only worms.

Thank f@#! there are schemes other than bng

Its not only bng, you can use it for t17, elite, hyst, inter etc.

Intermediate lovers using visual aids or kind of notching too, for example counting the right position when drop a dynamite on opponents worm. This is also a form of notching and Im sure some people did a table which shows the angle of each position.

We can continue this forever and it wont come to an end.