barman and his bng skillz

[Crazy]

This,

i think in order to even the playing field, we should as a community accept any visual aids, being there is no way to stop it/determine if someone is actually using them... and personally i dont see really anything wrong with having notes, if you want to be that competitive in this game to the point you take notes, and refer to them in games, you should be able to.... but thats something we all need to agree on, so everyone has equal opportunity and advantage.

and this:

also dev, if you have not noticed your asshole attitude gets you nowhere... not in clans, not in complaint forums, and not here. if you think someone is cheating in roperace why dont you f@#!ing investigate? what in the hell makes you think that its MonkeyIslands job to do such things???  is it not enough he spent hours and hours, days and days, months and months making this site? and updating this site, and continues to maintain it day after day for our enjoyment... not only has he invested his time, but im sure he has invested money in this massive project we call TUS... if you dont think he is doing enough, maybe you should donate a large amount of money to him, to make up for his time, maybe then he can spend more time here trying to please your arrogant ass.  *rant over*

I agree with avi, we should allow visual aids. It's the only way to have a game with equal chances for everyone. I don't like Mablak's idea of a webcamstream of playoffs to prove you're not using visual aid, it's just too much fuzz. We have to clearly state that it's allowed, and move on. Anyhow, this thread has to come something good out from. We have to get a conclusion unlike last time, where the thread kinda died out it nothing. I think a poll where people vote Yes or No for allowing visual aid is the best solution.

[lacoste]

Yeah allow visual aids and then open The Ultimate Shop for transparent sheets for different scrreens and actions. Money will go on promoting a Paper and Worms game to the newcomers.

Oh by the way, Devilage, didnt you promise to be the cheater of the yar? Heres a proof video http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/webdesign-pl-d2041dc5dbb06f9fa34778ad1c2f4472.html

[SPW]

yep, I agree with crazy. But no poll needed since it is a logical rule.

Mablaks idea is good but it will never work with all playoff players. Too much fuzz so I agree to crazy again.

[Free]

What makes this really lame is the fact that barman knew that he's cheating.

BAN VISUAL AIDS. BAN MODDED SPACES. BAN FR.

OG ROPING SINCE 99!

[Mablak]

Why rule out the webcam idea? I don't think there's as much hassle in setting up streaming live, compared to capturing directly from the game. It would take a unified effort but it would result in a more skill-based league. I would pledge to try it.

Also, I don't consider it a logical rule to allow notes, aids, transparencies, paper for straight shots, etc., just because they can't be enforced (except live or with a cam). Macros can't be enforced either, but it's better to disallow them.

How pathetic does the league look to a newcomer, when they see you have to print off distances in order to really play one of the schemes?

[Dulek]

How pathetic does the league look to a newcomer, when they see you have to print off distances in order to really play one of the schemes?

Pretty much the same goes for Poker players and hand probability calculators or so. I'm sure there are such programs and players use it (or use it till a particular point when they memorize it/caclutate by themselfes) for online tournamets.

[MonkeyIsland]

Mablak, people won't do the webcam. It's too much hassle. People won't feel comfortable being watched. (Some may need time before to put on make up), and at the end, many of us have slow connections. It just won't work for us.

The question is can you draw a line with visual aids? I can't see anything good come out of this. As I said earlier, if I had the money to investigate and start off real life worms championship, do you think we would really allow visual aids? No, just a simple screen/equipment.

Narrator: ok it's Barman's turn now. He pulls out his calculator and his notch cheat sheet. He is calculating, calculating, 5 seconds for the turn to end. Yea he starts to notch now, 4, 3, 2, 1  DAMN! he ran out of time... That was so existing. Komo's turn now. Since his previous turn, his thumb is still left on the screen so that he remembers his last angle ...

[Aerox]

there's 2 conclusions:

a) it's cheap. not illegal, but cheap.
b) it virtually can't be successfully persecuted and stopped

on the basis of a and b I'd like to ask only one thing:

can those who use it stop using excuses to appear to be in the moral right of things? You guys are cheats, but you're safe so there's no need to go all defensive. Just give in to the fact and stop making up crazy arguments on how it it's moral because it can't be stopped? you're sounding like f@#!ing Holland.

and since I can't leave without an analogy it's like learning to count cards with notes, a calculator and the help of a professional. You're just learning right? And whilst you enter the casino without any of the above the skill is still banned. I'm not comparing, I'm just eliminating excuses, mainly those that barman uses.

because no one doubts games should be rich in strategies and allow users to come up with different abilities and learning processes, but there's one thing that's more important than all that, and it's sportsmanship, and one of the things sportsmanship covers is fair competition, you're gaining and advantage that defeats the purpose of the game, in BnG, it should be about feeling and whilst winning is more important than anything in a league game, and you're winning without breaking the rules you're still being bad sportsmanlike. Few of you, pretty pretty bad actually.

[TheWalrus]

f@#! I love Ryan.  He's like Dub without the douche.

[Prankster]

No matter how much you, me, or anyone is against them, in a game like W:A, with perfectly reconstructable situations and pixel perfection, making visual aids is a logical step.
However, it's a good thing to have public opinion against visual aids, but if we outright ban them, without an efficient monitoring system, we will only cause unequal chances, because some people will abide the rule, and some simply just won't and will never be caught.
The webcam streaming you recommend, Mablak, only keeps players from using visual aids in certain games..

[Cueshark]

It feels nice pulling off a good shot with a zook or a nade using instinct and judgement.  It may not happen as often as if I used visual aids or notching but I'm pretty sure it's a more satisfying experience.  Must be a bit boring after a while knowing that your shot will be accurate because you've measured it using any of these techniques.

[ANO]

your penis need to spent more time inside holes ( of female or male, this is just your choice )

[Mablak]

Yes aids can't be monitored, but there are other things we disallow despite being unable to monitor. If you want to say aids are a logical step, then your argument equally applies to any kind of macro, or anything you can get away with.

I feel like this completely ruins BnG, there's no need for memory at all if you can just see a list of shots and their notches underneath the opponent worm, I would rather axe the scheme than allow something so mindless.

[TheKomodo]

Komo's turn now. Since his previous turn, his thumb is still left on the screen so that he remembers his last angle ...

I was really gonna stay out of this one but you had to go and mention my name didn't you?

As I explained before, most of my shots would hit 1st turn anyway, so I rarely even used my thumb, it's something I started doing because I minimise alot just to save time from time to time when I missed a shot.

Anyway, it's part of my body, so I can use it if I want, at least I don't mod my keyboard or use tables and graphs or macros or even prit stick tubes to measure distances for kamikaze lol...

Some people value winning as easy as possible over the passion/excitement & fun of learning naturally with average equipment.

Personally speaking, who gives a f@#!, this game is by far too f@#!ed up to save now anyway.

[MonkeyIsland]

lol dude, even people who don't like you, admit your BnG skills. That was just a funny demonstration to show how any "aid" would look like in real world competition.