Fair play?

[DarkOne]

'lo there,

I'm posting here cause of something that's been bothering me. It started out in the sheeprace cup (you can check the thread there, starting off with PiNK's post regarding FaD.
Now, if it just stayed with that, then that's just a one-time deal, everybody makes mistakes and the situation was corrected. No harm done.

But it's not a one-time deal. It's categorical manipulation of games and frankly, there's no place for that in W:A.
I have no problem with people playing W:A competitively at all, but if you're can play this game in a fair way, then I'm going to have a problem with that.
If TUS values fair play even a bit, then this kind of behaviour should not be accepted! Games should be decided by whoever has the best ideas and/or skills inside the game, not by whoever can cheat and lie their way out of losses or who can piss off their opponents best.

I for one have had enough of people like FaD that gladly make use of other people's hard work and give nothing but trouble in return.
Despite having hosted tournaments for RRkit and WMDB, despite having modded playoffs for fb, despite being a mod at TCB, I've never before met any wormer cause this many problems in just a few games. I have no intention of putting up with crap like this anymore though.
TUS is such a great site with so many challenges, leagues and resources and it would be very sad if people like FaD get the chance to f@#! things up. I for one, will not be a part of TUS any more if mods/admins don't take a stand against this kind of behaviour.

So what's it gonna be?

[pr]

what is your suggestion, d1?

[DarkOne]

well, current complaints have been handled so far, but there's a saying in medicine: ubi pus, evacuat

[MonkeyIsland]

Hai

I for one, will not be a part of TUS any more if mods/admins don't take a stand against this kind of behaviour.

So what's it gonna be?

TUS Cups is in its early version, and it is mod-based. When coding it, I assumed every mod will take care of his own cup. So it's not like the leagues system of the site. However I also coded 'Global mod' for cups. I DO like that you post when something is bothering you. No one else tried to search games and try to gather those info in one place for the cups.
I don't know what exactly you were trying to say or should I read too much in your line? However I do not like threatening or such lines. Because it makes things even worse. You can't put 'TUS staff' under pressure to decide something, because for one thing, it will also teach other people: 'Put us under pressure and get what you want'. It won't work here.

TUS is made my people, everything you see here were simple ideas at first. Then we do a lot of updates to make them suit our needs. It has always been like this and I'm trying to keep it this way. So maybe today you see 'TUS lacks something', but tomorrow, TUS has it for sure.

TUS values sportsmanship a lot. TUS values many things. It has a more clear and friendly community than before. All I'm saying is that TUS is a site of improvement. It grows.

Since you've focused on Cups more than anyone else and you have many experiences as you mentioned I'd like to offer you to be a global mod on cups of course if you care about improving TUS and you think you can handle it.

[Rok]

...
I for one have had enough of people like FaD that gladly make use of other people's hard work and give nothing but trouble in return.
I for one, will not be a part of TUS any more if mods/admins don't take a stand against this kind of behaviour.
...

Are we talking about 2 games here, one in bungee cup and one in sheep race cup? We've seen a greater amount of 'pus' D1, is that really enough to ban someone or for you to give up?

[DarkOne]

Hai

I for one, will not be a part of TUS any more if mods/admins don't take a stand against this kind of behaviour.

So what's it gonna be?

I don't know what exactly you were trying to say or should I read too much in your line? However I do not like threatening or such lines. Because it makes things even worse. You can't put 'TUS staff' under pressure to decide something, because for one thing, it will also teach other people: 'Put us under pressure and get what you want'. It won't work here.

Hi!

Well, first to get things out of your way; I'm just another player here, so I don't have anything to threaten/blackmail/whatever you with anyway. I certainly didn't mean that comment to be read as such.
From my time at fb, I also know that putting mods under pressure a) achieves nothing and b) only pisses off mods/admins. So if you did interpret my post as aggressive towards you, please accept my apologee. It was not directed at you, but rather at the kind of behaviour displayed above. And thanks for still responding in such a calm manner despite the tone of my post. I'll try to tone it down
That said, I didn't ask for any demands either (my reply to pr may have been an overreaction from my part, granted), but rather wanted to raise awareness amongst the staff of this kind of behaviour.

Since you've focused on Cups more than anyone else and you have many experiences as you mentioned I'd like to offer you to be a global mod on cups of course if you care about improving TUS and you think you can handle it.

What's the function of global mods in cups? Do they act only when the regular mods are involved in a complaint or something? I don't want to overstep my boundries and I certainly wouldn't/won't handle any complaints I'm personally involved in (for possible lack of objectivity)

Again, my apologies for the tone of the first post and thanks for the swift response

edit: @ Rok: download the file I added in my post. That's a selection of games in just 2 cups.
Again, I'm not asking for any punishment or what not for the things that have already happened as they have been resolved already.

[MonkeyIsland]

I don't want to overstep my boundries and I certainly wouldn't/won't handle any complaints I'm personally involved in (for possible lack of objectivity)

I take that as a yes then? ^^
I don't know if you use MSN or not. I added your email.

[pr]

There are two open questions:

1. Global cup mods, their functions.

2. What to do with players like Fad.

My opinion:

1. We should add them. Functions: help local mods.

2. Fair play can't be added to the rules. The replays d1 posted are all about the fair component of play.
My suggestion -> pwn your enemy even if your enemy is Fad. On condition that the enemy does not break any written rule.
I get additional satisfaction from won games if my opponent behaves like piece of shit.

[chakkman]

Bungee race is another thing though pr. There is no written rules. That is why we have to have confidence in the players fairness, its vital for this scheme. Guidelines would be the way you usually do a bungee race funner and the usual exposure between players. If that is not given its useless to do a cup with that scheme.

Anyway we can go on talking for hours about this... fact is that there is one single player out of 16 that thinks those guidelines wouldnt apply to him. The question is what we do with him.

[pr]

Bungee race is another thing though pr. There is no written rules. That is why we have to have confidence in the players fairness, its vital for this scheme. Guidelines would be the way you usually do a bungee race funner and the usual exposure between players. If that is not given its useless to do a cup with that scheme.

Anyway we can go on talking for hours about this... fact is that there is one single player out of 16 that thinks those guidelines wouldnt apply to him. The question is what we do with him.

why no written rules?
We can add them I think that those situations in games with d1 and fad can be described.
Don't u agree with it? I know about fair play, I'm just trying to formalize them into strict rules form.

[Rok]

Bungee race is another thing though pr. There is no written rules.

Anyway we can go on talking for hours about this... fact is that there is one single player out of 16 that thinks those guidelines wouldnt apply to him. The question is what we do with him.

There are the rules that you wrote when the cup started, no? If there aren't any, you make them next time, it's your cup, you're the mod, mod = law 

That said, you can ban the mentioned 1/16 of players that cause trouble, hehe.

[DarkOne]

If you look at the replay with Taz, though, you will see that FaD is very much aware of the concept of fair play and the rules following them, yet simply refuses to abide by them.
Like chakkman said, bungeerace is a game of courtesy and the rules (even though not written down) are common knowledge among bungeeracers. A sense of fair play is required to make this game work.

In how much detail must we go with the rules if some people are simply determined to break any rule not written down? Bring in the lawyers!

There was another fine example at the worm olympics (I realise it's not TUS, but I'm seeing this as a trend) where 2 players were in a bungeerace on a map where you could drown. Player 1 drowned very close to the finish and started over. Mind you that he was allowed to teleport to the place where he was before drowning! He just didn't know.
However, when player 2 drowned at the same jump, he did teleport to his previous spot.

Common courtesy is what made this game survive for this long, so I don't want it to disappear like this

[pr]

There are rule avoiders in any type of game. Not only related to WA.
You need to write the rules so they can't do anything.
Everything should be added to the scheme rules. It's just for 1 day to modify scheme rules and
this should work forever if it is written well.

It's not that complicated to add some lines to scheme rules...
E.g. http://www.kb.sinpiso.com/help.html#rules
look here. Almost everything is covered there.

[HHC]

There was another fine example at the worm olympics (I realise it's not TUS, but I'm seeing this as a trend) where 2 players were in a bungeerace on a map where you could drown. Player 1 drowned very close to the finish and started over. Mind you that he was allowed to teleport to the place where he was before drowning! He just didn't know.
However, when player 2 drowned at the same jump, he did teleport to his previous spot.

Yeah.. there hasn't been much of an Olympic spirit in the WO. I sure am glad I wasn't one of the mods.. it was almost undoable with so many idiots spamming the chat. Not to mention the fact the soon-to-be winner of the event is a complete asshole. On the contrary, I've never had any probs in the TUS cups (thus far).

[chakkman]

@ Rok and pr: I posted the rules for situations like those which occured in the Cup description after DarkOne described the incidents in those games. Frankly i wasnt expecting anything like that because i was figuring that every game would be played the FAIR WAY. I mean seriously trying to lame or play false in a Bungee Cup how retarded is that...

Anyway we gotta make sure now that EVERY small single situation that might lead to some1 trying to go through with some lame shit has to be covered, means we have to add a lot of shit which would be obvious for every1 with only a little bit of fair play spirit in them. Well, thats the way things have to be nowadays i guess.