New 2v2 league

[Senator]

If there is enough support, we will start a new 2v2 league on a separate website. Tomi will do the coding.

Why? We could have more 2v2 games than currently with TUS singles 2v2 and clanners
How? Random pairs between the players who are online (new pairs every time)

Shortly
- Click a button on the website to find a 2v2 match
- You see your partner and opponents when a match is found
- You have to play the match or you get penalty points (IF the other 3 players report you didn't agree to play)
- Both pairs pick their own scheme
- You gain points for your own 2v2 ranking

Differences to TUS singles 2v2
- Own league table for 2v2 ranking -> no risk of losing 1v1 points
- You can't select your partner and opponents (the system appoints them to you) -> no avoiding
- To find a match you just click a button on the website and wait -> no desperate "2v2 anyone?" on #AG

More details
- As soon as 4 players have clicked the button on the website, the system
  - balances the pairs based on players' overall points: 1. & 4. versus 2. & 3.
  - creates two game id's for reporting. You see the game id's at pending games
  - opens a window on your screen with all relevant information (the pairs, scheme pick order)
- On the game id site you see
   - the pairs
   - scheme pick order
   - a form for reporting
- Reporting options:
   - Winner (select pair 1 or 2 from the list)
     - Scheme
   - No-show (select a player from the list)
     - If some of the players reports a no-show, the other players can go to click "confirm". If confirmed, the reported player loses some points (-50, for example). If there is no confirmation from two other players in 24h, the game id will disappear automatically.

Point calculation
- Same as TUS singles (2v2), example: (1100+900)/2 versus (1200+750)/2

Everything else is just like in TUS.

Further development
- The system could be set to make more even matches (=more waiting)
- "Find a 2v2 match" button could be added to Great Snooper as well
- If the new league is popular, we might have similar league on TUS sites some day

Please give your vote and feel free to comment! Any idea is appreciated.

[DarkOne]

If you haven't already, you should have a chat with avirex he will be delighted

[Tomi]

This is a post to keep this thread alive if anyone would still like to vote. ^^

[Hussar]

well i allweys was on YES to do a "league button" !!!!!! MI i dunno....... is it that hard?

[Senator]

If you haven't already, you should have a chat with avirex he will be delighted

Yeah I have suggested him this system. The problem was to get it coded but now we have Tomi to do that. We just need some guarantee that it's worth it.

If avirex's 2v2 league managed to attract 32 players, this should do a little better. I'm expecting at least 40-50 "yes" votes. We have indeed got some votes outside avirex's league.

What amazes me is that some people from avirex's 2v2 league have not voted "yes" (although they have visited this topic). Do they really think avirex's system works better? If so, I would like to hear some arguments.

My concern was if people are willing to play this league outside TUS. That may be the issue. Or is the case really that people don't play at all rather than play with some new guys (in case there is no clanner available)? If there are single players from clans online, with this system they could have a 2v2 match without clan tags.

Anyway, there is still plenty of time to vote and not everyone from avirex's 2v2 league have visited this topic yet. I'm expecting a lot more "yes" votes

[Nivman]

well i think the idea is nice but not so sure how active it wil be outside of tus..
2 leagues running on 2 diffrent sites isnt what people are looking for.
 considering the current activety of league games iam not so sure people will be intrest on diffrent 2v2 league,they would prefer get in po with they clans or single.
maybe if MI will alow tomi to code that 2v2 league on the tus site and make it an Experimental season to see how things going then may it will work and increase the whole "league system" since all leagues are in decrease.

[GreatProfe]

I know TRL is only 1 scheme, but it could be a season where players only be able to play 2v2 non clanners and all classic schemes avaliable.

EDIT: I know, matchin button wouldnt exist, at least could get a test.

[Aerox]

You know, there was once a league that allowed 2v2 implemented to singles. It was quite a popular feature because it was very simple.

You could pair up with whoever vs whoever and it would do the calculations based on team strength and such. Whatever points you won or lost where calculated towards your singles ranking, although it could also go with an independent 2v2 league standings, even if you still rank people individually. With fixed teams, it's just a simplified clan league. It doesn't really add much.

I'm sure it wasn't a perfect system, but the idea has always been there for grabs, TUS people.

[Senator]

...

You can play 2v2 matches for TUS singles ranking. Back then people met their friend on AG and looked for a 2v2 opponent. So it was basically two friends against two friends. This new league would be different: random pair against random pair. You can't arrange such matches without a system. Like I said:

Differences to TUS singles 2v2
- Own league table for 2v2 ranking -> no risk of losing 1v1 points
- You can't select your partner and opponents (the system appoints them to you) -> no avoiding
- To find a match you just click a button on the website and wait -> no desperate "2v2 anyone?" on #AG

[Aerox]

Yes, sorry I wasn't clear enough.

I'm trying to have people realize this is a very bad idea.

[Senator]

With fixed teams, it's just a simplified clan league. It doesn't really add much.

I have kind of answered to this already but I'll do it again.

With this new system, you can play 2v2 whenever there is 4 players online (no matter from which clan) = more games
With this new system, also players outside clans can take part = more games
With this new system, matches are balanced (clan matches can be quite unbalanced -> only top clans survive and bad clans die -> we have a group of players who would like to play 2v2 if there was a way)

So I wouldn't say "it doesn't add much". Because of inactivity, we need new systems like this.

[Tomi]

To add my opinion(s) to this topic:

I think the success of this league depens on how well its match-making system can be fine tuned.

- Firstly it could work like: there are 4 players waiting for a game --> calculate the teams and notify them that they can start to play.

- Then a delay could be implemented into it like: there are 3 pro players waiting for a game, and 1 newbie --> wait X seconds and if a player / players join with whom we can start more balanced games (however in this situarion it's not sure that people can play the league in the order they clicked the search button)

- People don't always like to play with a random opponent, so maybe we could let them to play Y games in a season with a specified partner (but in this case the other team should be able to choose if it is okay for them)

- Maybe it could also generate teams.. like there are 8 players who clicked this option, then it will generate 2 teams with 4-4 people and those teams would be like clans for some games (playing the same way as tus clanners now)


So there are many-many options that could be implemented to this league. Some of them are already possible in TUS right now. Please try to choose / tell your opinion regarding to this.

[Aerox]

I'm only curious about the reasons behind making this a different site and not work to implement those ideas to tus

[Senator]

Of course we would rather implement the system on TUS sites. MonkeyIsland should either give Tomi access to code TUS sites or code the system himself. I'm not sure if he is willing to do either.. Maybe we should have another vote like "Do you want to play this kind of 2v2 league on TUS sites?" to put some pressure on MI OR we can test the new league on other website at least a couple of seasons to see how it works in practice. I'm not a fan of new league site either but it looks like the only way to get something happen.

[KoreanRedDragon]

A few preliminary thoughts as I catch up with this discussion:

What's the point of having a team league if at the end of each season, you have a single player at the top of the standings, not a team? I feel all that would do is call for speculation and investigation as to why that particular player ended up #1 and not someone else ("He got randomly paired with Mablak and Random00 in 50% of his games, that vile cheater!") rather than stand to bring any sort of prestige, and hence motivation for the future, to the winner.

On the other hand, if teams are assigned randomly before every match and you can't pick your partner, there's also little point in presenting the standings in terms of top pairs. As a player, you'd have little to no control over who you partners are and would end up having to try and game the system (queue for matches together at just the right times) to get to the top with your preferred team mate, again ridding the standings at the end of the season of any real meaning and prestige.

If the whole point is to simply find games for people who like to play 2v2 but have trouble organising clanners/funners, I imagine a much simpler implementation (more than likely via Tomi's snooper or a simple IRC bot) would do the trick just fine. The way I see it, there's really no real need for an entire league, here on TUS or elsewhere, unless the primary concern is to find the best player/team at X, where X is something that isn't covered by a different league or competition... and of course then also properly reward the winner to give the project a lasting appeal.