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Author Topic: some changes  (Read 2584 times)

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Online Peja

some changes
« on: October 10, 2011, 03:09 PM »
well mi told me create a topic for this.

imo we should try to make league rules more clear and efficent. i cant give a complete concept i just want to start a discussion about some ideas.


schemes:

bng: im really not that much into this scheme so pls correct if my ideas just suck.

handling sitters: after a sitter you should damage yourself, just counting a - in the hp at the end of game is kinda unfair because with a sitter you destroy the landscape and change the idea. just saying: "make - x"
is an advantage for the peson who shot the sitter because his hide should be touched as well. i know its not in the rules but its a common way in many games.

about darksiding: maybe the a2b rule would help: No Darksiding - You are not allowed to use a hide where you cannot aim directly at your opponent - If you are pushed into a hide and all you can do is zook/bank grenades, you may attempt up to 3 return shots and if any are successful you must move immediately to a hide where you have a direct angle to shoot towards your opponent, this prevents players hiding in such a way that their opponent has no means of a direct shot giving the "darksider" an unfair advantage.

wxw/shopper: there should be a health point punishment like in bng, just dont attack isnt enuogh imo.since cows happen very rarely there, there may isnt a need to change.
                   
shopper scheme change: what about to decrease the weapon power of clusers/flamethrower, it looks kinda inbalanced

roper: we got this discussion before, but i think just delete the no block rule would be positive, atleast it would decrease the trouble.

complaints: what about creating a menu for complaints (like the report a game page). there you could select the kind of the complaint (lagout and report, order, etc) and of course way to show the time of critical situations.

in general: if you lose a game after you claimed a cow, game should stand. (playin = agree to continue) if your opponent refuse to take a penalty just quit.

reporting a game after a lagout without waiting for the opponent and try talk should lead to a lose for the reporter.
sounds a bit  hard but maybe we can stop people to report everything before trying to talk.

at mods in general: there shouldnt be used any kind of jokes or sarcasm in a league complaints thread, even when players acting like dumbasses.

 

so feel free to talk.
                                                               
                     
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 VoK: will do ttrr every map under 30s

Offline Husk

Re: some changes
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2011, 04:35 PM »
bng: im really not that much into this scheme so pls correct if my ideas just suck.

handling sitters: after a sitter you should damage yourself, just counting a - in the hp at the end of game is kinda unfair because with a sitter you destroy the landscape and change the idea. just saying: "make - x"
is an advantage for the peson who shot the sitter because his hide should be touched as well. i know its not in the rules but its a common way in many games.

about darksiding: maybe the a2b rule would help: No Darksiding - You are not allowed to use a hide where you cannot aim directly at your opponent - If you are pushed into a hide and all you can do is zook/bank grenades, you may attempt up to 3 return shots and if any are successful you must move immediately to a hide where you have a direct angle to shoot towards your opponent, this prevents players hiding in such a way that their opponent has no means of a direct shot giving the "darksider" an unfair advantage.

A wise wormer once said: "TUS BnG is war!", maybe give a try for nrbng?

in general: if you lose a game after you claimed a cow, game should stand. (playin = agree to continue) if your opponent refuse to take a penalty just quit.


so feel free to talk.


sometimes the opponent accuses you of cow even tho no rules were broken.
an example: an accidental rope knock in elite or team17 that doesn't change the outcome. your opponent is telling you that u cowed and therefore you should skip, but u try to reason with him and u don't skip. would the mods want us to continue the game or not?

Re: some changes
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2011, 04:37 PM »
well mi told me create a topic for this.

imo we should try to make league rules more clear and efficent. i cant give a complete concept i just want to start a discussion about some ideas.

schemes:

bng: im really not that much into this scheme so pls correct if my ideas just suck.

handling sitters: after a sitter you should damage yourself, just counting a - in the hp at the end of game is kinda unfair because with a sitter you destroy the landscape and change the idea. just saying: "make - x"
is an advantage for the peson who shot the sitter because his hide should be touched as well. i know its not in the rules but its a common way in many games.

Actually...
Quote from: BnG scheme rules
- Sitters are not allowed. (Sitters are grenades that sit for 1/4 second or longer). The penalty for a sitter is a Grenade or Bazooka to and from yourself in an attempt to cause the same damage you previously inflicted.
So in that respect, we agree :)

wxw/shopper: there should be a health point punishment like in bng, just dont attack isnt enuogh imo.since cows happen very rarely there, there may isnt a need to change.

For WxW, perhaps you're on to something here, since the amount of successful attacks isn't all that high in most games (though, of course, some players can attack almost any turn). Let's make it clear that in this case, piles are not allowed 8)

I think damaging yourself in shopper is a bit too much, though. In shopper, there's almost always an attack. If you commit a cow, it basically means you had one shot more than you should have had. If you are forced to hit yourself the turn after, then not only do you lose the turn (which would make the game balanced again), but you also give your opponent an extra free turn as it were (because in that turn, you did your opponent's work)
                   
shopper scheme change: what about to decrease the weapon power of clusers/flamethrower, it looks kinda inbalanced

The subject of the shopper scheme has gone around a few times already, but for clusters and flame throwers, I think you should keep in mind that in some situations, they are very powerful, but in other situations, they are utterly useless. Same as petrol.

complaints: what about creating a menu for complaints (like the report a game page). there you could select the kind of the complaint (lagout and report, order, etc) and of course way to show the time of critical situations.
I quite like this idea. Not sure if MI has anything in store for this in 2.0 :)

in general: if you lose a game after you claimed a cow, game should stand. (playin = agree to continue) if your opponent refuse to take a penalty just quit.

And what if it turns out you were incorrect in calling it a cow (happens to the best of us)? Then you quit a game for no reason and you lose the game. I'd prefer if it were done differently: If you cow, you must take a penalty. If you don't take the penalty and you win, the game is void. If you don't take a penalty and then do another cow, then you lose by default. (first cow = strike 1. not taking a penalty = strike 2. second cow = strike 3).

reporting a game after a lagout without waiting for the opponent and try talk should lead to a lose for the reporter.
sounds a bit  hard but maybe we can stop people to report everything before trying to talk.

Does sound kind of harsh, doesn't it? :) As it is now, games reported because of a lagout are voided (unless there's a huge advantage) and should be replayed. I'm not sure if we should be handing out losses for first time offenders, though. Perhaps if certain people do it a few times, then we could give it a try to handle it with your suggestion.

at mods in general: there shouldnt be used any kind of jokes or sarcasm in a league complaints thread, even when players acting like dumbasses.          

Don't take that away from us, it's all we have! Sounds reasonable :)

Re: some changes
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2011, 04:56 PM »
Great ideas, thinking about how to improve tus is always good imo :).
I'd like to quote what I said in a previous post:
Quote

1) The way we handle complaint has to change if we want tus to not be a drama queen place. I think this thread is a perfect example of a 3 page topic with only 4 or less post that are accurate.
People only involved in the complaint should be able to post and read it and the argument around the game should be more concise and as D1 pointed out there weren't a lot of information to help mod.
Let me suggest you a way to make thing goes better:
Make a form (like when you report a game) with question such as when a rule was broken...This will save time to mod.
Allow only people involved in the game (+clan leader for clanner) to read and see how the complaint is being done and forbid people to post about the complaint in other place than in it. No more drama..

Offline nino

Re: some changes
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2011, 08:53 PM »
husk, i think it was me, i dunno, but i totally agree with nrbng.
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Offline Husk

Re: some changes
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2011, 11:37 PM »
it was darkz [:

Offline nino

Re: some changes
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2011, 12:22 AM »
oh well, i remember i said the same thing times ago.

porra, war is war.

i can imagine on 2nd world war a french complaining with some german cos of a sitter xD
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Re: some changes
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2011, 03:27 AM »
I think just counting yourself to have less hp is fine as a penalty for sitters, but you should have to skip your next go to account for potentially moving the opponent. But hitting yourself with nade or zook isn't the best idea, it could give you a better hide in some situations.

BnG rules need to be vastly simplified though, and we should stop perpetuating the idea that cheapness exists in a game to win.

-There's no reason to have a rule against straight zooks, mainly because you'll never be in a situation in which they're possible on a decent map. I can't remember a single BnG in which I reached a point where straight zooks could be performed.

-There's no point in having a rule against 1 sec nades: you can basically always do a 2 sec LG shot in any situation a 1 sec shot is feasible in, and the purpose of this rule is presumably the same as that of no straight zooks. If you're able to shoot straight at the opponent, then you're inevitably exposing your worm way too much.

-There's very little point in disallowing regular 5 sec nades, the risk for sitters is high enough to deter that. What people are really concerned about are easy roller shots, which are possible with 4 secs most of the time. If anything, regular 4 sec nades should be disallowed, especially to slightly deter 4 sec max power shots.

-Girders should just be removed. Mainly because you can't formulate a simple rule to describe when they're being used for protection versus banking; any girder you place will protect you from some shot or another. To keep girders, we would need a lengthier (and I'd say overcomplicated) rule to describe how much protection you're able to give yourself. And of course some rule seems necessary if girders are to be in the game, or else you could give yourself some insanely good hides. You could simply formulate the rule so that placing any girder allowing you the possibility of banking and hitting your opponent is fair game, though you could probably still place some evil ones that way.

-Sitters should be defined as nades that don't move for 2 frames (.04 seconds), as this could be much more easily judged than the current 1/4 second rule, without needing to check the replay. And we might as well have a lower tolerance for sitting if we can.

Offline franz

Re: some changes
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2011, 06:47 AM »
bng for me is the most stressful scheme simply because the rules try to do too much. they try so hard to make bng fair and fun, but way too often, all they do is continue to make bng into a game of honor, leaving way too many grey-area situations, making opponents get angry at each other. it turns every bng into a less enjoyable game, no matter who wins. that's just my experience. (it even makes me avoid handling bng complaints simply because I honestly don't support the current state of bng and its rules).

like husk/nino have said, I feel no rules bng would do way more good than harm.
even add the ability to be unanchored, with no retreat, if that helps nrbng's case.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: some changes
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2011, 07:46 AM »
The main reason "no sitters" is/became a rule was to stop people aiming really really low angle 4s and 5s grenades, because of how easy it is attack.

Because let's face it, if a grenade stops moving before it explodes doesn't matter does it, when you see someone call a trick shot but it gets stuck by accident even for 0.50s and more it still looks great and still takes alot of skill, even when a 5s LG min bounce gets stuck for the last 0.40s it doesn't make it lame, it makes it LUCKY if anything, and a little bit of good luck shouldn't be punished.

If if was up to me, I would remove the no sitter rule, and simply add this: No low-aimed rolling grenades that risk sitting before exploding, all shots must be aimed to explode on impact without rolling/bouncing around the worm with extra fuse.

If you can throw a 5s LG, 3s,  and make it get stuck at there worm, this is awesome imo.

Even though this would make alot of people happy, some players rely on playing throwing these "lame shots"

I would vote yes for no rules BnG, but I think we should also have a scheme similar to a2b as well, to suit both styles and variety of players, for those who just want to play to win at whatever cost, and those who want to win with "style".

I hope this didn't offend anyone in anyway.

Offline avirex

Re: some changes
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2011, 12:29 PM »
yes, lets make a no rules bng-   

and whatever else komo said, i support him

Offline TheKomodo

Re: some changes
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2011, 12:30 PM »
yes, lets make a no rules bng-   

and whatever else komo said, i support him
* Komito faints...

Offline barman

Re: some changes
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2011, 01:02 PM »
No rules BnG seems like a fine idea to me.

Also, the current "official" scheme has to be simplified. Three pneumatic drills? What for?
Just leave LG, bazooka, grenade and infinite teleports which solve all placement issues.

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Offline Anubis

Re: some changes
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2011, 02:33 PM »
No Rules BnG? I am in, I loved it when it was somewhere supported in another league, probably just 1 season but it was fun. Also unanchored and 3 sec retreat time to jump away/hide. :D

Oh yeah, what about tele too close with no rules bng? It could become a problem if somebody just teleports on top of you. :P

Offline nino

Re: some changes
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2011, 02:53 PM »
No Rules BnG? I am in, I loved it when it was somewhere supported in another league, probably just 1 season but it was fun. Also unanchored and 3 sec retreat time to jump away/hide. :D

Oh yeah, what about tele too close with no rules bng? It could become a problem if somebody just teleports on top of you. :P

how about u get active?

f@#!ing forget others games, play only worms gringo!

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