TEL-System - Need a change?

[Peja]

well, tbh first i thought its not really fair a player gets 15 wins from me, but the matches were more balanced then the others i got on tel.

Maybe somethink, if players like me play tel its not good cause of skills. To fix it we could do a system which includes 2 leagues. in league A are the better players, in league B dudes like me. The best and worst Players would change Leagues in next season. but dunno how to put each player in a league. just an idea.

[SPW]

How exactly 15 games is too high? it is 15 games in 8 weeks. That makes it almost 2 games per week!

So just lets keep it up, it's really not a big deal imo.

I'm fighting to have a real Elite-Rank and not smth like at classic now. That's why I vote for a reset, after every season and no overall-points matters at all.

For example: TEL Season #3, Standings:

1. DENnis (48%)
2. Peja (50%)
3. chuvash (59%)
.
.
50. Crash (87%)
59. Mablak (89%)
64. Random00 (90%)

Where's the sense there? It just makes everything unclear, I dont like such rankings, really. For a "One-Scheme-League" without any sense.

So I pray for a reset and let it run like Season #1 - Season by season. Top 8 at single-ranking moving into PO's.

I really can live with the current game-limit. This isnt the real problem.

[MonkeyIsland]

The system is designed so that high ranked player play with their same level. Looking at the TEL standings, first 2 players are Mablak and Random00, how many times these 2 have played each other? How many times they have played 3rd and 4th?
Reseting each season, means "Komo" player will beat "Peja" player again 15 times. But without reseting, this time "Komo" player wont' get much points by beating "Peja" player. (Hope those quotes says it is just an example)

Changing system is 5 min work for me. Over these 2 years I've seen and I've tried many ways to reach the best solution. Convince me or get convinced please

[SPW]

If everyone agree, there's no need for a change, tho. So I just let others have a word now. Please don't talk about the limits of games per season. This isn't a big deal.

Reset or not - that's the question.

by the way, I dont have any problems with the rating system. It's sometimes tough, but everybody has to live with it.

[nino]

this should be reseted imo


and about the limite of games. hmm ok not a big deal, but with a low limit per player maybe it could force players to play vs others diferent players cos of limit.

i mean..i dont have much time to play, then i sit in the chair to play TEL in da night then i start to play vs someone and then the limit of games dont let me play vs this person again, then i can look for others opponent in ag to play it, making it a bit more balanced, but well just a sugestion, the limit of games isnot really a problem indeed.

[MonkeyIsland]

this should be reseted imo

nino it is not like a vote. We're looking for whys. To see which side will have more pros than cons. In this very thread people mentioned komo vs peja series. I just mentioned with a reset each season, we'll have these repeats each season.

Please everyone who wants to reset or not reset, tell us about the pros and cons.

[GodiTo]

Nice idea, SPW. As HHC said : "I'm with you"

[darKz]

Reset

Pros
+ same starting conditions every season for each player

Cons
- can't think of any right now..

No Reset

Pros
+ players can earn a "safe" playoffs spot through several seasons with their cumulative rating

Cons
- if we keep the "seasonal rating" playoffs spots it's gonna be too easy for newcomers to get into playoffs after a couple seasons passed (see classic league)



I'm for resets every season.

[nino]

Reset

Pros
+ same starting conditions every season for each player

Cons
- can't think of any right now..

No Reset

Pros
+ players can earn a "safe" playoffs spot through several seasons with their cumulative rating

Cons
- if we keep the "seasonal rating" playoffs spots it's gonna be too easy for newcomers to get into playoffs after a couple seasons passed (see classic league)



I'm for resets every season.

MI read above, thats my reasson why i think reset would be good.

ty darkinho xD

[franz]

There are cons for both, but it seems like people are much more passionate about wanting each season starting clean vs the alternative.

With a reset, there are easy points to steal at the beginning of the season when everyone is the same rank (even though we all know that everyone is NOT at the same rank).  So players under 1000 skill level will be giving away their points unfairly to those players fortunate enough to take them early in the season.

It's a trade-off.  
With a reset, good players early in the season have an unfair advantage of taking these points from sub1000 skilled players.  With no reset, this unfairness is gone, but now any good player who joins TEL late without playing in any previous season will get into playoffs easily through seasonal ranking.

Which is more important for the league?  Or can you think of something better?

Edit:  also, maybe there can be a way to adjust # of players who make it into playoffs due to activity?  perhaps since this 1st season seems so active, it can go from 8 to 12?  this bracket would give 1-4 spots a first round bye, and 5-12 fight to play them

[HHC]

My update:  

Reset

Pros
+ Same starting conditions every season for each player, not the burden of history
+ Standings that make sense
+ Neither newbies in, nor 'safe' playoffs spots created (I see this as a Pro René)
+ Every season a new chance, no need to build up a HUGE overall rating
+ Minimum number of games for a playoff spot no longer necessary
+ Leagues more accessible to new players (easy to step in, see above: no longer multiple seasons needed to build up a rank); would probably also stimulate people who have given up to give it a new try (every new season)
+ Different people in playoffs, not just the usual suspects with their 5000+ ranks

Cons
- MI gotta change the system = work
- Perhaps only the very very active people will qualify for playoffs (not that it is easy for inactive people now..)
- Newb bashing pays off (first week all noobs are worth 1000 rating!; same as Elite super veterans pwners)

[Maciej]

ah i kenw ytherw oild be any pirohlems if there is only one schmee but go for trrl ;d;d would be rallty nice ! rope race ftw!

[HHC]

EUREKA Franz! I think I got it all figured out: 


At the moment the # of points won and lost in a match is equal and based on the overall rank.

Example: HHC vs Nino in elite:
HHC wins:
1122 + 55 = 1177 HHC rank
1483 - 55 = 1428 Nino rank

Nino wins:
1122 - 24 = 1098 HHC rank
1483 + 24 = 1507 Nino rank

What might make things interesting is using both the overall rating and the season rating to calculate win and lost points. And apply a different counting for both players:

For the winner:
WINNER = Season rating
LOSER = Overall rating used

For the loser:
WINNER = Overall rating
LOSER = Season rating used

Suppose me and nino have just played our first game of the season. In this case our season rating is naturally 1000 pts. The points would be calculated as follow:

HHC wins:
HHC rating change is based on 1000 for HHC (Season) and 1428 for Nino (Overall): HHC gets roughly +63 points.
Nino rating change is based on 1122 for HHC (Overall) and 1000 for Nino (Season): Nino gets roughly -36 points.

Nino wins:
Nino rating change is based on 1000 for Nino (Season) and 1122 for HHC (Overall): Nino gets roughly +36 points.
HHC rating change is based on 1428 for Nino (Overall) and 1000 for HHC (Season):
HHC gets roughly -20 points.

As you can see, in each match the number of points won and lost isn't equal anymore, but I don't think that's a problem.

The real advantage here is that:
A) Every season everyone will start out the same again. Having a high or low rank will not affect the number of points you get for beating someone. (Random with an overall rank of 1556 and Sillynoob with a rank of just 245 will both receive the same ammount of points for beating HHC, as both of them have the same season rank (1000)).
B) As the season progresses the best players in this particular season will get less points for beating an opponent than someone with a lower season rank (this keeps players from accumulating ranks into the 10.000's, instead überactive players will reach a certain ceiling, where any additional wins hardly give points, while losing games deducts plenty).
C) Most importantly, at the start of a season, beating noobs gives you way less points than beating veterans, even though their seasonal ratings may be the same.

To summarize, this solves everything:
-> a fresh start each month
-> history has no effect on your chances in this season (for good or for bad)
-> no newb bashing
-> being active alone isn't gonna cut it, you need a good record as well


Surely this can't be too hard to code MI?

This system seems pretty solid to me 

[Rok]

Sorry, but this thread is a meh.

This has been discussed like 50 times before, and nobody has come up with a solution to what some of you think is a problem, but it really isn't: How many 'newcomers' has there been so far who were abusing the low rating to gain points fast? One per season, maybe, or something like that? How many newcomers there will be in next season of TEL that will have enough skill to actually take advantage of your precious high ratings? Yeah, not many. And even if there's a reset every season, one can simply wait a month and then rape you.

I'm gonna pick on you now, HHC, nothing personal, but your post comes handy

Pros
+ Same starting conditions every season for each player, not the burden of history   // Not true, more skilled players have huge advantage;

+ Standings that make sense   // there are better ways to solve this, besides that I don't think how current standings don't make sense

+ Neither newbies in, nor 'safe' playoffs spots created (I see this as a Pro René)  // potentially more newbbashing newbies in playoffs

+ Every season a new chance, no need to build up a HUGE overall rating   // I could agree with that. But you don't need THAT HUGE of a rating in current system. Just play enough people with similar rating.

+ Minimum number of games for a playoff spot no longer necessary   // true, but then activity plays bigger role in standings

+ Leagues more accessible to new players (easy to step in, see above: no longer multiple seasons needed to build up a rank); would probably also stimulate people who have given up to give it a new try (every new season)   //  I thought SPW said that it's currently too easy for new players to step in?

+ Different people in playoffs, not just the usual suspects with their 5000+ ranks   // Classic league playoffs have a nice variety of different players , IMO


Cons
- MI gotta change the system = work   // Like MI said, it's not a lot of work
- Perhaps only the very very active people will qualify for playoffs (not that it is easy for inactive people now..)  // I agree, and that's much bigger problem than 1 potential newcomer each season, if you ask me
- Newb bashing pays off (first week all noobs are worth 1000 rating!; same as Elite super veterans pwners)  // Yeah.

[HHC]

Scratch that Rok, read my new post just above yours.