Because 99% of my old friends that played W:A quit.
Maybe we should sign a petition to ban Mole Shoppers?Mole shoppa, like torn/ripped jeans on young women, is a mere fad and will disappear in a few years.
LitMaybe we should sign a petition to ban Mole Shoppers?Mole shoppa, like torn/ripped jeans on young women, is a mere fad and will disappear in a few years.
Maybe we should sign a petition to ban Mole Shoppers?Mole shoppa, like torn/ripped jeans on young women, is a mere fad and will disappear in a few years.
Because 99% of my old friends that played W:A quit.
Is it hard to make new friends on WA?
Because 99% of my old friends that played W:A quit.
Is it hard to make new friends on WA?
Not interested in making friends with people I have nothing in common with.
I used to play the game 24/7, but the moment I got my first full time job in 2013 was the beginning of the end of my worms "career" ;) I probably would've left at some point anyway since the state of the community seems a bit... boring? Where is everyone? Amazing how the league activity went from a normal 1500-2000 games per season a year ago to basically zero right now... seems like as soon as a significant number of players leave the game, everyone else just follows suit?
The last game in my replays folder is from July 2016, haven't touched worms ever since. I've never been much of a gamer, so I haven't really played other games either. Bought a bunch of classics (Portal, Civ 5 etc.) for fun during the last two christmas breaks, logged ~80 hours and that's about it. I'm probably already at an age when it's really hard to get into a new activity, especially when I have a bunch of other hobbies (astronomy, photography, programming) to fill my free time with.
Don't bother Kradie. :)
Maybe we should sign a petition to ban Mole Shoppers?Mole shoppa, like torn/ripped jeans on young women, is a mere fad and will disappear in a few years.
You mean yourselves.
Mole is the most strategy & tactical based game, just like chess. Everybody who doesn't enjoy it is simply a sub-human. Unless you play on a resolution higher than 1366x768. If so, then I feel sorry for you, cuz you probably suck at jumping from pixel to pixel. Streamed 1920x1080 looks like sh*t.
Don't bother Kradie. :)
How can I not bother when I believe someone's post is cynical and shallow? Things change with the times, but it's too bad that there are people that linger to a time which is passed. This does not mean one shouldn't allow themselves to begin a new and adapt with the times.
I can understand that people's memories are their pride, but they are also their weakness. With them, it prvents a person to move on from their pride. You are a prisoner of your memories, We can long to something that made us, but we can't let it overrule our authority to become more.
You don't want to play, because it lacks the necessary ingredient for a complete experience that you once felt. It might be you who lacks the ability to add substance for a new experience.
Maybe we should sign a petition to ban Mole Shoppers?Mole shoppa, like torn/ripped jeans on young women, is a mere fad and will disappear in a few years.
You mean yourselves.
Mole is the most strategy & tactical based game, just like chess. Everybody who doesn't enjoy it is simply a sub-human. Unless you play on a resolution higher than 1366x768. If so, then I feel sorry for you, cuz you probably suck at jumping from pixel to pixel. Streamed 1920x1080 looks like sh*t.
Bahahaha….
Mole Shopper is a joke, my friend. It is basically a noob version of regular shopper in which you don't even need rope skills, or one could look at it as a sort of dumbed-town Team17. Much of the game is total luck and randomness and requires very little strategy compared to, say, Elite or Intermediate at high levels. The reason why so many noobs play Mole is because it's so easy and basically anyone has a chance of winning regardless of personal skill.
Maybe we should sign a petition to ban Mole Shoppers?Mole shoppa, like torn/ripped jeans on young women, is a mere fad and will disappear in a few years.
You mean yourselves.
Mole is the most strategy & tactical based game, just like chess. Everybody who doesn't enjoy it is simply a sub-human. Unless you play on a resolution higher than 1366x768. If so, then I feel sorry for you, cuz you probably suck at jumping from pixel to pixel. Streamed 1920x1080 looks like sh*t.
Bahahaha….
Mole Shopper is a joke, my friend. It is basically a noob version of regular shopper in which you don't even need rope skills, or one could look at it as a sort of dumbed-town Team17. Much of the game is total luck and randomness and requires very little strategy compared to, say, Elite or Intermediate at high levels. The reason why so many noobs play Mole is because it's so easy and basically anyone has a chance of winning regardless of personal skill.
Luck based scheme? Dude, I would easily crush you in this scheme 300x times in a row. Everything is a skill over there
- hiding
- mole as a bumerang
- knowing when to steal, when to invade
- sprint across the map + parachute jumps to extreme extent
- the best possible executions, even with the worst weapons that you've got
Dude, I mean it. I will pay you 40$ if you ever defeat me in 20 games. Do you accept the challenge? It's so annoying to have ignorants like you, calling everything they don't know "Luck-Based". It's just sh*t mentality.
*I don't see any teams playing roper/elite/time trial rope race/bazooka and grenade.
*Playoff games are too hard to schedule for me.
*Cup games are too hard to schedule for me.
No point sitting in AG wasting time.
Imagine then, Zalo, how annoying is to have people like you saying that mole is the most tactical scheme when you have literally played nothing else competitively. Mole could be luck based or not, I don't think people care (out of the mole shopping community). Ever thought why the 'most tactical scheme' never made it to any serious league besides free?
Ever considered the dedication of NNN members? EA community? Do you consider their schemes don't have the RNG factor of crates? All you can think about or talk is about mole shopper, so sit there and shut up if you don't know.
@topic, I don't play often because I dislike the slow pace of mole shopping so I just play whenever people I know pm me somewhere else.
Maybe we should sign a petition to ban Mole Shoppers?Mole shoppa, like torn/ripped jeans on young women, is a mere fad and will disappear in a few years.
You mean yourselves.
Mole is the most strategy & tactical based game, just like chess. Everybody who doesn't enjoy it is simply a sub-human. Unless you play on a resolution higher than 1366x768. If so, then I feel sorry for you, cuz you probably suck at jumping from pixel to pixel. Streamed 1920x1080 looks like sh*t.
Bahahaha….
Mole Shopper is a joke, my friend. It is basically a noob version of regular shopper in which you don't even need rope skills, or one could look at it as a sort of dumbed-town Team17. Much of the game is total luck and randomness and requires very little strategy compared to, say, Elite or Intermediate at high levels. The reason why so many noobs play Mole is because it's so easy and basically anyone has a chance of winning regardless of personal skill.
Luck based scheme? Dude, I would easily crush you in this scheme 300x times in a row. Everything is a skill over there
- hiding
- mole as a bumerang
- knowing when to steal, when to invade
- sprint across the map + parachute jumps to extreme extent
- the best possible executions, even with the worst weapons that you've got
Dude, I mean it. I will pay you 40$ if you ever defeat me in 20 games. Do you accept the challenge? It's so annoying to have ignorants like you, calling everything they don't know "Luck-Based". It's just sh*t mentality.
I almost fell asleep reading this.*I don't see any teams playing roper/elite/time trial rope race/bazooka and grenade.
*Playoff games are too hard to schedule for me.
*Cup games are too hard to schedule for me.
Honestly, when my hand itches to play a roper or rr I simply play offline. No point sitting in AG wasting time. I have even played BnG vs the AI and it wasn't that bad if you anchor them lol. And the AI doesn't even abuse sitters! :D
f@#! the other 5 days of the week? 7/5 = 1.4No point sitting in AG wasting time.
a hint for not-players:
if you got time on a weekend evening, then come to ag.
f@#! the rest of the week though.
More than I expect from you.Maybe we should sign a petition to ban Mole Shoppers?Mole shoppa, like torn/ripped jeans on young women, is a mere fad and will disappear in a few years.
You mean yourselves.
Mole is the most strategy & tactical based game, just like chess. Everybody who doesn't enjoy it is simply a sub-human. Unless you play on a resolution higher than 1366x768. If so, then I feel sorry for you, cuz you probably suck at jumping from pixel to pixel. Streamed 1920x1080 looks like sh*t.
Bahahaha….
Mole Shopper is a joke, my friend. It is basically a noob version of regular shopper in which you don't even need rope skills, or one could look at it as a sort of dumbed-town Team17. Much of the game is total luck and randomness and requires very little strategy compared to, say, Elite or Intermediate at high levels. The reason why so many noobs play Mole is because it's so easy and basically anyone has a chance of winning regardless of personal skill.
Luck based scheme? Dude, I would easily crush you in this scheme 300x times in a row. Everything is a skill over there
- hiding
- mole as a bumerang
- knowing when to steal, when to invade
- sprint across the map + parachute jumps to extreme extent
- the best possible executions, even with the worst weapons that you've got
Dude, I mean it. I will pay you 40$ if you ever defeat me in 20 games. Do you accept the challenge? It's so annoying to have ignorants like you, calling everything they don't know "Luck-Based". It's just sh*t mentality.
what did you expect from skunk?
Mole shopper is no more difficult to play at a decent level than any other scheme. It is incredibly basic, in fact. I would never play 20 games of mole shopper vs. anyone because it's boring and too lucky for my tastes. I've played plenty of mole shoppers, so it's not like I don't know the scheme and how it is played. I'm not ignorant and lacking the super duper moleshop secrets to winning. Hiding, stealing, invading, chuting, etc... all of this stuff is present in many other schemes. To say that mole shopper is the most tactical/strategic scheme is ludicrous and lots of people agree. Not trying to get you pissed off or whatever because clearly you love it but that's how I view it. To me, mole is just a funner scheme to play when nobody else feels like playing something more serious in AG. There's a reason why it is so popular amongst noobs... because it is very easy to play and almost anyone has a chance of winning, especially in 4-6 player games. Random luck plays a huge part in the game whether you can recognize that or not.
Mole shopper is no more difficult to play at a decent level than any other scheme. It is incredibly basic, in fact. I would never play 20 games of mole shopper vs. anyone because it's boring and too lucky for my tastes. I've played plenty of mole shoppers, so it's not like I don't know the scheme and how it is played. I'm not ignorant and lacking the super duper moleshop secrets to winning. Hiding, stealing, invading, chuting, etc... all of this stuff is present in many other schemes. To say that mole shopper is the most tactical/strategic scheme is ludicrous and lots of people agree. Not trying to get you pissed off or whatever because clearly you love it but that's how I view it. To me, mole is just a funner scheme to play when nobody else feels like playing something more serious in AG. There's a reason why it is so popular amongst noobs... because it is very easy to play and almost anyone has a chance of winning, especially in 4-6 player games. Random luck plays a huge part in the game whether you can recognize that or not.
Ignorance part #2
I doubt I would even lose 1 worm out of 4 against you. You clearly don't know this scheme.
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/free-standings/Mole_Shopper/?s=overall
https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-1035/
https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-1051/
https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-1052/
Nobody wins 1st out of 32 people, or wins 100x games in a row, or 3x cups in a row "by accident" or because of your imaginary "huge amount of luck". You are just an ignorant, Sir.
kids, family life, when i find time outside of work and for myself its usually spent watching tv series if i'm not spending free time with my partner.
I'd like an hour or so a day/every other day if i knew i could come to ag and find tus games..
If mole is so luck-based, why don't you accept Zalo's challenge Skunk? Instead of playing 20 games, just play until you win. Should just be a game or two, right?
Well sure his statement that it's the most strategic scheme is obviously bullcrap. I don't think anyone took that seriously. I'm just saying that it's more skill-based and strategic than you give it credit for. I don't think it's boring at all. Talking about the TUS scheme here.If mole is so luck-based, why don't you accept Zalo's challenge Skunk? Instead of playing 20 games, just play until you win. Should just be a game or two, right?
Because I'd rather spend my time available for gaming doing something fun rather than having a pissing contest playing a scheme that I don't really enjoy due to random luck. That said, if I was in AG and nobody else had anything decent hosted and friends weren't online I wouldn't turn down a game. Besides, even if he won 2-3 games in a row vs. me that wouldn't prove his point that Mole is the most strategic/tactical scheme of all time. My issue is with that claim. To me, the scheme clearly is not. On top of that, if he is claiming that Mole is the most strategic scheme of all time he is by extension claiming himself to be the #1 best player because wouldn't it stand to reason that whoever dominates the most competitive/strategic non-rope-based scheme is therefore the best player? If Mole is more strategic and tactical than say, Intermediate or Elite, then wouldn't that dominant player also dominate those schemes as well? The reason why all of this sounds absurd is because his original premise is absurd. Mole is not the most strategic/tactical scheme there is just as I said, and it is also a highly luck-based scheme, just as I said. Clearly Zalo is quite good at Mole according the rankings but he has played over 2x more ranked games than ANYONE else, plus out of the 200+ players who have ranked Moles recorded in that list, roughly 5% of them at most are truly high-level players. Anyway, I'm not trying to make anyone angry here; I'm just trying to interject with a bit of rationality. To me, bragging about being the best Mole player is no different than claiming to be the best at T17.
Well sure his statement that it's the most strategic scheme is obviously bullcrap. I don't think anyone took that seriously. I'm just saying that it's more skill-based and strategic than you give it credit for. I don't think it's boring at all. Talking about the TUS scheme here.If mole is so luck-based, why don't you accept Zalo's challenge Skunk? Instead of playing 20 games, just play until you win. Should just be a game or two, right?
Because I'd rather spend my time available for gaming doing something fun rather than having a pissing contest playing a scheme that I don't really enjoy due to random luck. That said, if I was in AG and nobody else had anything decent hosted and friends weren't online I wouldn't turn down a game. Besides, even if he won 2-3 games in a row vs. me that wouldn't prove his point that Mole is the most strategic/tactical scheme of all time. My issue is with that claim. To me, the scheme clearly is not. On top of that, if he is claiming that Mole is the most strategic scheme of all time he is by extension claiming himself to be the #1 best player because wouldn't it stand to reason that whoever dominates the most competitive/strategic non-rope-based scheme is therefore the best player? If Mole is more strategic and tactical than say, Intermediate or Elite, then wouldn't that dominant player also dominate those schemes as well? The reason why all of this sounds absurd is because his original premise is absurd. Mole is not the most strategic/tactical scheme there is just as I said, and it is also a highly luck-based scheme, just as I said. Clearly Zalo is quite good at Mole according the rankings but he has played over 2x more ranked games than ANYONE else, plus out of the 200+ players who have ranked Moles recorded in that list, roughly 5% of them at most are truly high-level players. Anyway, I'm not trying to make anyone angry here; I'm just trying to interject with a bit of rationality. To me, bragging about being the best Mole player is no different than claiming to be the best at T17.
Skunk why don't you at least check the tus scheme before making accusations.
I am on your side but the fact you don't even wanna check the scheme first is ignorant.
The TUS scheme has superweapons disabled, limited girder range (vs unlimited), slow water rise, regular banana (vs. gold powered), and random placement. Not sure if it's played with manual placement in leagues since I've never played mole for tus. You still have the hilariously overpowered clusters, airstrike, baseball bat, firepunch, dragonball, shotgun, etc. There's lots of opportunity to darkside or block until you have good weapons, so the luck element isn't that huge.
Just like any scheme on WA not all the top players play it on TUS. Not that I count myself among the top mole players (far from it). FMA is probably better than Zalo and he's played like 6 tus games. You probably wouldn't recognize that name because he is a serial-aliaser. Every game he changes his name and country flag.
After playing however many thousand Worms games I don't care about winning anymore. I often root for the other guy to win because he probably cares more. Games with zero luck factor are what I find boring. Those games often just reward whoever plays the safest and most boringly -- dAiNa dominated the league at one time but her roping was like watching paint dry. To each their own I guess. But I do find Team 17 pretty boring as well.
Not very coherent point but I feel that if you wish to continue ripping on mole shopper you should put your skills to the test first.
If mole is so luck-based, why don't you accept Zalo's challenge Skunk? Instead of playing 20 games, just play until you win. Should just be a game or two, right?
Because I'd rather spend my time available for gaming doing something fun rather than having a pissing contest playing a scheme that I don't really enjoy due to random luck. That said, if I was in AG and nobody else had anything decent hosted and friends weren't online I wouldn't turn down a game. Besides, even if he won 2-3 games in a row vs. me that wouldn't prove his point that Mole is the most strategic/tactical scheme of all time. My issue is with that claim. To me, the scheme clearly is not. On top of that, if he is claiming that Mole is the most strategic scheme of all time he is by extension claiming himself to be the #1 best player because wouldn't it stand to reason that whoever dominates the most competitive/strategic non-rope-based scheme is therefore the best player? If Mole is more strategic and tactical than say, Intermediate or Elite, then wouldn't that dominant player also dominate those schemes as well? The reason why all of this sounds absurd is because his original premise is absurd. Mole is not the most strategic/tactical scheme there is just as I said, and it is also a highly luck-based scheme, just as I said. Clearly Zalo is quite good at Mole according the rankings but he has played over 2x more ranked games than ANYONE else, plus out of the 200+ players who have ranked Moles recorded in that list, roughly 5-10% of them are truly high-level players in my opinion, and most of them have very few ranked games recorded. Anyway, I'm not trying to make anyone angry here; I'm just trying to interject with a bit of rationality. To me, bragging about being the best Mole player is no different than claiming to be the best at T17. I am certain that if more skilled players decided to start playing a bunch of ranked mole (for whatever reason) the rankings would look radically different.
@Zalo, I find your commitment to Mole Shopper more impressive than your skills, because I personally agree with skunk, it's nowhere near as highly skilled as you think it is. And i'll always expect you to defend that, it's admirable haha!
By the way every single scheme has luck factor whether you realize it or not.
Luck, as in your genetics as a human, your ability to understand and improvise, plan and carry out.
And where you were born and how you were raised contributes to that, and that's completely random luck...
Do you have a family that can buy you a good keyboard for roping, were you raised in a place with opportunities to get a good job and buy good equipment?
There is so much more underneath the iceberg than you will ever realize ;)
@Zalo, I find your commitment to Mole Shopper more impressive than your skills, because I personally agree with skunk, it's nowhere near as highly skilled as you think it is. And i'll always expect you to defend that, it's admirable haha!
Anyone wants to earn 40$? way is open, just win in any of 5 games against me, and 40$ is yours.
Big RR/TTRR still has random wind.By the way every single scheme has luck factor whether you realize it or not.
Luck, as in your genetics as a human, your ability to understand and improvise, plan and carry out.
And where you were born and how you were raised contributes to that, and that's completely random luck...
Do you have a family that can buy you a good keyboard for roping, were you raised in a place with opportunities to get a good job and buy good equipment?
There is so much more underneath the iceberg than you will ever realize ;)
@Zalo, I find your commitment to Mole Shopper more impressive than your skills, because I personally agree with skunk, it's nowhere near as highly skilled as you think it is. And i'll always expect you to defend that, it's admirable haha!
That is going off of the deep end.
There are certain schemes that have no luck involved, like TTRR, Big RR, etc. Of course we could argue about people not having the exact same keyboards and whatnot but that's really reaching and pretty stupid. I could also argue that I can't play TTRR at 7 a.m. because of the light coming in through my window and reflecting on my screen.
Anyone wants to earn 40$? way is open, just win in any of 5 games against me, and 40$ is yours.
Anyone wants to earn 40$? way is open, just win in any of 5 games against me, and 40$ is yours.
I could also argue that I can't play TTRR at 7 a.m. because of the light coming in through my window and reflecting on my screen.
I'd play anyone for money in bng with a 3-5 sec shot clock, confident I can beat any bng player not named komo in this fashion pretty easily. paypal anyone?Anyone wants to earn 40$? way is open, just win in any of 5 games against me, and 40$ is yours.
That's the problem Zalo, pretty much nobody wants to...
You and I are alike, you for Mole Shopper, me for BnG, but there was better competition in BnG than Mole Shopper, it was a more popular scheme, although I never met anybody who took it as seriously/passionate as I did, the only person who ever sort of equalled me was barman, but he was a hardcore notcher and got his league stats through that method, and he came too late in the game so didn't have as good an opportunity as I did to get the stats that I got.
skunk is entirely right, you are alone in your passion on TUS, most of your games are noob bashing because pretty much nobody even takes Mole Shopper seriously except you, and I had the same problem in BnG, I lacked world class competition on a daily basis, there were some great players but they weren't active enough, I only got to play Random00 once, he was one of the best I ever played.
I can admit that my stats would probably not be as impressive if there were other people who took BnG as seriously as I did, and the same goes to you and Mole Shopper.
That's what skunk is trying to say.I could also argue that I can't play TTRR at 7 a.m. because of the light coming in through my window and reflecting on my screen.
That's legit lol.
1 problem with Worms is lag, frames skipping etc, that's entirely luck unless you know what settings and hardware to use perfectly, but most people don't have access to that information, or they don't know how, or they can't buy new hardware etc.
You can play a 0% luck scheme, yes, but there will always be luck because even missing 0.02 of 1 turn can lose you a game, make you miss/fall/lose turn.
But, I get the point,
I'd play anyone for money in bng with a 3-5 sec shot clock, confident I can beat any bng player not named komo in this fashion pretty easily. paypal anyone?Anyone wants to earn 40$? way is open, just win in any of 5 games against me, and 40$ is yours.
That's the problem Zalo, pretty much nobody wants to...
You and I are alike, you for Mole Shopper, me for BnG, but there was better competition in BnG than Mole Shopper, it was a more popular scheme, although I never met anybody who took it as seriously/passionate as I did, the only person who ever sort of equalled me was barman, but he was a hardcore notcher and got his league stats through that method, and he came too late in the game so didn't have as good an opportunity as I did to get the stats that I got.
skunk is entirely right, you are alone in your passion on TUS, most of your games are noob bashing because pretty much nobody even takes Mole Shopper seriously except you, and I had the same problem in BnG, I lacked world class competition on a daily basis, there were some great players but they weren't active enough, I only got to play Random00 once, he was one of the best I ever played.
I can admit that my stats would probably not be as impressive if there were other people who took BnG as seriously as I did, and the same goes to you and Mole Shopper.
That's what skunk is trying to say.I could also argue that I can't play TTRR at 7 a.m. because of the light coming in through my window and reflecting on my screen.
That's legit lol.
1 problem with Worms is lag, frames skipping etc, that's entirely luck unless you know what settings and hardware to use perfectly, but most people don't have access to that information, or they don't know how, or they can't buy new hardware etc.
You can play a 0% luck scheme, yes, but there will always be luck because even missing 0.02 of 1 turn can lose you a game, make you miss/fall/lose turn.
But, I get the point,
I'd play anyone for money in bng with a 3-5 sec shot clock, confident I can beat any bng player not named komo in this fashion pretty easily. paypal anyone?Anyone wants to earn 40$? way is open, just win in any of 5 games against me, and 40$ is yours.
That's the problem Zalo, pretty much nobody wants to...
You and I are alike, you for Mole Shopper, me for BnG, but there was better competition in BnG than Mole Shopper, it was a more popular scheme, although I never met anybody who took it as seriously/passionate as I did, the only person who ever sort of equalled me was barman, but he was a hardcore notcher and got his league stats through that method, and he came too late in the game so didn't have as good an opportunity as I did to get the stats that I got.
skunk is entirely right, you are alone in your passion on TUS, most of your games are noob bashing because pretty much nobody even takes Mole Shopper seriously except you, and I had the same problem in BnG, I lacked world class competition on a daily basis, there were some great players but they weren't active enough, I only got to play Random00 once, he was one of the best I ever played.
I can admit that my stats would probably not be as impressive if there were other people who took BnG as seriously as I did, and the same goes to you and Mole Shopper.
That's what skunk is trying to say.I could also argue that I can't play TTRR at 7 a.m. because of the light coming in through my window and reflecting on my screen.
That's legit lol.
1 problem with Worms is lag, frames skipping etc, that's entirely luck unless you know what settings and hardware to use perfectly, but most people don't have access to that information, or they don't know how, or they can't buy new hardware etc.
You can play a 0% luck scheme, yes, but there will always be luck because even missing 0.02 of 1 turn can lose you a game, make you miss/fall/lose turn.
But, I get the point,
Big RR/TTRR still has random wind.By the way every single scheme has luck factor whether you realize it or not.
Luck, as in your genetics as a human, your ability to understand and improvise, plan and carry out.
And where you were born and how you were raised contributes to that, and that's completely random luck...
Do you have a family that can buy you a good keyboard for roping, were you raised in a place with opportunities to get a good job and buy good equipment?
There is so much more underneath the iceberg than you will ever realize ;)
@Zalo, I find your commitment to Mole Shopper more impressive than your skills, because I personally agree with skunk, it's nowhere near as highly skilled as you think it is. And i'll always expect you to defend that, it's admirable haha!
That is going off of the deep end.
There are certain schemes that have no luck involved, like TTRR, Big RR, etc. Of course we could argue about people not having the exact same keyboards and whatnot but that's really reaching and pretty stupid. I could also argue that I can't play TTRR at 7 a.m. because of the light coming in through my window and reflecting on my screen.Quote from: ZaLoAnyone wants to earn 40$? way is open, just win in any of 5 games against me, and 40$ is yours.
Wind is only a factor if you fall. Falling isn't luck.
Wind is only a factor if you fall.
Wind is only a factor if you fall.
How?
If you climbing in rr and get full red/blue wind after small fail. There's no way to continue climbing but to go on the bottom with chute/enter manouver. It's considered unlucky if, for example, your opponent gets 0 wind.
But ppl who'll go that far are salty idiots, imo.
I... (x1000 times)
Everything's easy...
Your reactions...
It's not like he's making a big deal out of it, just stating that it IS a factor of luck, which is true, you cannot argue it whatsoever.
Wind is only a factor if you fall. Falling isn't luck.
It's not like he's making a big deal out of it, just stating that it IS a factor of luck, which is true, you cannot argue it whatsoever.Wind is only a factor if you fall. Falling isn't luck.
umm.... but skunk3 said it's not really any factor, Sensei didn't say anything wrong here...
you don't even realize your own mistakes
Yeah that's fine mate, watch this space, i'll make something of myself, while selfish ignorant people like you never achieve anything worth talking about lol.
You will never be a legend at anything, ever.
You've played RL for ages and still suck, not as much as me lol, but you still suck.
Why are there so many pictures?Sensei is trying to cheer himself up after getting roasted
you are alone in your passion on TUS, most of your games are noob bashing because pretty much nobody even takes Mole Shopper seriously except you, and I had the same problem in BnG, I lacked world class competition on a daily basis, there were some great players but they weren't active enoughYou are wrong; there have been and there still are many pro Mole Shopper players out there. Also, you can’t take just TUS leagues into consideration as there are players who don’t participate in them. Some play only cups/tournaments, and others don’t even use TUS at all, even very pro players, as I’ve found some of them in the depths of WormNET. Such skilled players that make you wonder questions like "how come you're not at TUS?" "how come you don't participate in tournaments/cups?" I even like calling these players "Molers of the Shadows". Anyway, it's not that players don't care to play Mole Shopper seriously. They sure do; what they don't give a spit about is playing on TUS leagues, that's all, mainly the pro Mole players of today, so don’t look just at the TUS leaderboards. You can have a better notion of the best players if you take a look at the recent cups, even though, they're not all there. And they do play Mole daily because I know them and see them every day; they’re constantly trying to get better as they can, and even after 3 cups, no one managed to defeat Zalo. And no, before anyone makes any false accusations, I’m not any Zalo fanboy, not even close to that; I’m just saying facts.
Obviously mole is going to be more strategic than, say, roper or shopper (because there isn't a ton of strategy involved in those schemes), but I think it is debatable as to whether it is any more or less strategic than T17 (I'd say they are about the same in terms of skill level), and it is most definitely far less strategic than Intermediate, Elite, Darkside, Strategic, etc.
If Mole is more strategic and tactical than say, Intermediate or Elite, then wouldn't that dominant player also dominate those schemes as well?No, because they’re more technical than strategic. I explain more below:
Mole shopper is no more difficult to play at a decent level than any other scheme. It is incredibly basicEven though the Mole Bomb is the standard weapon in this scheme, you would be surprised if you knew all the tricks and moves you can do with it. A normal mole shot only takes 36HP, but it can take 200HP if you are not careful. And it’s not just used in attacks; it works as a tool as well on things you must do “right” in order to be successful in the game. A “basic player”, like you say, who already masters ground playing would spend a very hard time trying to get the Mole Bomb working for them, because it’s pretty much the only scheme you would want to use that weapon, and you will need to use it many, many times, and every turn counts. Basic players won’t even understand why sometimes the mole digs backwards when they play the scheme. Plus it takes some practice to be able to use it however you want. Needing to use the Mole Bomb in so many turns during a match, any “basic player” would be quickly doomed before a player who knows how to use it, so the only place you’ll be able to use your general scheme skills would be at the bottom of a pit.
I've played plenty of mole shoppers, so it's not like I don't know the scheme and how it is played. I'm not ignorant and lacking the super duper moleshop secrets to winning. Hiding, stealing, invading, chuting, etc... all of this stuff is present in many other schemes.Where are your best games, Skunk? This is the only Mole Shopper game from you registered on TUS:
Mole Shopper is a joke, my friend. It is basically a noob version of regular shopper in which you don't even need rope skillsThis would be true only if the worms all started in a same open area.
There's a reason why it is so popular amongst noobs... because it is very easy to play and almost anyone has a chance of winning, especially in 4-6 player games.Please, Skunk, don’t say the same mistake twice. You were already told before that no one is talking about HB mole FFAs. Those are sure lottery, yes.
I was talking about funner moles at first, and you're talking about ranked mole games.It doesn’t matter if it’s funner or ranked, what matters is which Mole Shopper scheme is being played. Anyway, what I answered you above also apply to TUS Mole scheme.
(because I've never played a ranked match, why in the f@#! would I want to?)You don’t need to play a ranked match to play on a pro Mole Shopper scheme. In fact, most matches aren’t ranked because nobody (or almost no one) cares about TUS leagues stats today anymore pretty much, because the fun comes from the game itself. They just don’t feel the need to register their games at TUS leagues because there is no reason to, but they’re still playing out there. Just because TUS league Mole games aren’t being played much today, it doesn’t mean that pro Mole matches aren’t happening in WormNET.
Your record, to me, only signifies that you participated in a bunch of Asbest style ranked noob bashing and that not too many other players actually take ranked mole seriously because only 4 players out of 244 had a total number of games played in the triple digits, with yours being more than double the total of the next player with the most total games played.Zalo’s played more Mole games than anyone else, yes, but number of games played doesn’t necessarily mean skill. There are more skilled players than what the TUS league numbers show.
Ostensibly the only real difference between a funner mole and a ranked mole is gonna be the starting placement. My guess was correct.
I couldda swore that it said something about placing worms in holes to start.The scheme description hasn’t been rewritten after Ramone’s last edit on the scheme, on which I’m assuming he must have changed to random placement upon request during some old Mole cup on November 19, 2008. It seems you really just remember the scheme back at that time, the time when there was still so much to discover about it. Not knowing that Mole Shopper has never been played with manual placement ever since somewhen in 2008 (10 years ago) just shows your only point here is to keep saying crap about what you do not know.
TBH I was only thinking of starting inventory and basic settings, not about stuff like gold banana (I pretend it doesn't exist) and whatnot.That’s only in HB scheme, forget about it.
I don't need to be a director to critique a film, nor do I need to be a chef to critique a dish.I’m sorry, but Mole is different. You do need to understand the scheme very well in order to have a plausible opinion about it. Unless you can understand what a good and what a bad move is in Mole and explain the existing strategy behind the moves in the matches, you can’t evaluate how strategic the scheme actually is since you can’t understand how it works. I was noob in Mole one day too as everyone else, and I can tell how much of the strategy I couldn’t see and the moves that I should have made that I didn’t for not knowing the right priorities. Mole Shopper is really very similar to chess: a person who has just learned the rules isn’t capable of having a deep analysis of a match between two grandmasters. And trust me, I also didn't like Mole at first, but later on, it clicked to me what was so marvelous about it.
Hahah. I got roasted? Don't think Komo is capable of doing such thing.
But cute from you, WTF8.
Hahah. I got roasted? Don't think Komo is capable of doing such thing.
But cute from you, WTF8.
Actually, I could easily stick a big stick up your ass and shove you over a fire, spin you round and round, but you'd probably enjoy the stick part so that would ruin it for me :(
Mate, at least I actually have stuff to brag about bwahaha!
I am extremely confident in my ability to make music
LMAO! So f**king funny how clueless people are around here, thanks :D
I love how your insults are always unoriginal and obvious mate, you ALWAYS do the obvious, attack a person on things you think matters most to them lol, if you wanna shock someone, surprise them ;)
How does it feel to be less creative than people like Asbest and Taner?
I am extremely confident in my ability to make music, and what makes this even better, is you've complimented my music in the past :D AHAHAHAHAHA!
LMFAO you're hopeless LOL! F**k me i'm actually crying cuz I laughed too much.
Edit - Ladies and gents, notice who keeps derailing this conversation? I keep talking about the subject, this fool keeps trying to attack my personality, LMAO! So f**king funny how clueless people are around here, thanks :D
wall of text
To be honest Kradie, sometimes it just passes the time, and I enjoy slagging each other, it's fun :)
One of my favourite comedians is Frankie Boyle.
Nothing to do with thinking or feeling better or worse than anyone else, not sure why you even added that, was pretty pointless lol.
And actually have a lot to say about a lot of interesting things :)
can we have any specific examples of those countless things discovered, so this wall of text doesn't look like empty talk?The answer to this was already in my post when I said: “Seriously, just compare the games from these old cups/tournaments to the recent ones. You’ll see an immense level difference. The ones that understand how mole works literally “laugh” at how noobish games from old cups were.”
other than the obligatory piece of paper in form of mole's trajectoryI consider such a thing cheating as you are using materials that go beyond your hands, plus for the fact it removes your real skill of aiming the mole, using only what the game offers you. Same goes for the Laser Sight weapon in the game… if you’re going to use a physical ruler on your screen, then what is the purpose of having such a utility present in the game? That’s why I consider things like that cheating; you’re using more means than what the game gives you.
Let's look at various definitions of the word strategic:Nope, on the contrary: long-term strategy appears on the 2 first definitions of yours, and there is no other scheme that can be more long-term strategic than Mole, and that is undeniable since the more technical schemes, such as Intermediate, require short-term tactics since due to the fact you start the game already in the middle of the fight with all the worms exposed (they’re clearly closer to the Action game genre than Mole is). In Mole, you can take your time to advance carefully and even to set up ambushes, which I’m pretty sure it’s something you don’t really get to see in these more technical schemes (I might be wrong, but I highly doubt it considering the overall look of the schemes and since that ambushes are organized attacks that require certain elements and time to be prepared, hence naturally occupying a bigger spot in the long-term strategy side). Mole Shopper is much more about strategy, planning than performing the best possible attacks. I do understand the concept of “strategic”.
1.
relating to the identification of long-term or overall aims and interests and the means of achieving them.
2.
relating to the gaining of overall or long-term military advantage.
3.
helping to achieve a plan, for example in business or politics:
4.
used to provide military forces with an advantage:
If you truly understand each invididual word, and what they mean as a collective, then it's VERY surprising you claim Mole Shopper to be THE most strategic WA scheme, it's ignorant towards the definition of the word.
But I still don't see it as strategic as Elite/Intermediate because both these schemes share all that, with the added element of other skills/techniques/strategies.You can’t really say they “share all that” because they’re very distinct from Mole. Just the fact that the worms start exposed already prevents you from doing many moves and tactics you’d do in Mole.
Elite/Intermediate lack the luck factor that Mole Shopper has which is determined by crates, this is luck, you cannot argue that, whether or not it has a huge impact isn't as important as the fact that crates dictate a lot of your turns, which is luck/random, however this does actually add an extra element of skill/strategy which Elite/Intermediate doesn't have, because you have to be versatile and adapt to any situation, but the same goes for Elite/Intermediate, you have to be versatile and adapt to any situation and keep on top of things.As I already explained, crate luck is a minor aspect in Mole Shopper, and like you said, you have to adapt to any situation. If you're unlucky with crates in Mole, you have infinite amount of girders to play defensively until you feel ready to decide to risk your worms' safety for a counter-attack. Also, having less worms or less HP doesn’t necessarily mean you’re losing.
However though, because Elite/Intermediate both have a static weapon selection, there is less chance of getting "the perfect weapon at the right time", which to me makes it less luck based than Mole Shopper, which makes the strategy more important.The strategy you say resumes to short-term tactics to reduce your enemy worms number as fast/efficient as you can. It’s not like you have the time to think and focus about the very best route, taking the game as a whole.
Until fairly recently I have historically avoided this site like the plague because I hate the notion that only TUS enshrines the 'best' players.Well said.
What I am saying here is that I doubt a Mole player of today with 2 years of experience would be able to easily defeat a Mole player of yesteryear with 2 years of experience.Well, I have beaten players who play ages before I even started. Being a newer player or not, it doesn't make a difference. What makes the difference is the efficiency of the strategy you use. Some players learn faster than others, and there are also different playing styles among the players in Mole Shopper. Some are more aggressive, some are more defensive, some go more for crates etc; it all depends on the style that feels more convenient for them to play, and this is one of the aspects I like the most in Mole; it makes the game scenarios become even more variable and consequently enriches the scheme.
I also fail to understand how or why Mole supposedly requires a greater degree of tactical OR technical skill than any other scheme. Knowing when to hide, knowing how to chute, knowing how to best utilize a weapon and when, knowing how to darkside, etc.... these are all competencies shared by many other schemes. Mole isn't unique in this regard by any means.If you're so sure about that, then why don't you bring your best Intermediate player to face the best Mole Shopper Player in Mole Shopper? That would be a way to confirm if what you're saying is true or not.
I will admit that my experience with the TUS Mole scheme is extremely limited, but TBH I don't even need to play a scheme to understand how it works. I've been playing Worms for so long that all I need to do is see the options/settings 'on paper' and I can, in my head, understand how the game will play. I also do not understand how you can dismiss the overall luck factor in the scheme.Hahaha... funny contradiction of yours here when you say you don't understand how I can dismiss the overall luck factor right after saying “I can, in my head, understand how the game will play”. The answer is simple: you simply can’t! You can’t because you haven’t got the slightest idea of how the strategy in that game plays like. It’s just like getting a chess variant of which you only know the rules and start saying you know everything that is possible and what is not, how it will play etc… Anybody who creates a game won’t see everything right off the bat before even testing it (and even after playing a few times); that’s even common sense. And like I said, luck becomes irrelevant if you play with a more efficient strategy; it means nothing if you won’t be able to use it.
Where the crates drop and what they contain is random, and although it generally holds true that they will likely spawn in the biggest cave, that's not always the case. You can of course attempt to manipulate the map in such a way that you maximize crate drops that are accessable to you, but at the end of the day it is still wildly random.Haha, interestingly funny to see the how the outsiders of the Mole World see it. They all immediately direct their minds to crates as if crates were the center of the universe. Well, what if I told you that crates aren’t everything? I have won many games in which my arsenal was x3 smaller than my opponent’s. The crate access might be random, but the victory access at the end of the day is not. Again, you might have the weapons, but you might not be able to use them. It’s no surprise that the terrain is all enclosed and there are unlimited girders. This scheme is indeed a masterpiece.
My estimation of Mole is that it almost invariably comes down to spawns, crate luck, and going all-out at sudden death for kills and/or depriving the other player of high ground and forcing them to drown. Everything else that occurs before that point is basically just crate hoarding and positioning, which, as I said, isn't exactly the epitome of tactical nor technical Worms gameplay.OMG, man… you sure know how to waste people’s time. I shouldn’t even be writing things to you. I thought we were talking about the same thing now, but you’re so ignorant you keep standing there saying things as if you know them, but even if you did know them, it wouldn’t mean anything because you’re not talking about the right matter here. “Forcing them to drown”??? You even made me remind myself of this part of this AVGN episode here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6DtVHqyYts&t=10m46s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6DtVHqyYts&t=10m46s)). What are you even talking about? That never happens! Oh, right… you’re thinking about HB Mole again, that noob scheme that water swallows all worms. Well, you’re going off the subject (again). I can only imagine how you deal with research and academic work. But anyway, you should AT LEAST watch a TUS mole match to see what it’s like so you can have a brainwash as to forget about that horrid HB scheme and get to know what you’re “trying” to talk about.
I'll admit that I do not know how/why sometimes the mole digs backwards but I am sure that there's a simple explanation. Care to elucidate? Also, how does a mole do 200 damage? I've never seen that.Mole digs in the direction that it’s going, so once it collides on a wall and you activate it, it digs backwards because it had already started going towards the reverse direction by the time you activate it. Yes, very simple explanation.
I was only attempting to argue that Mole isn't nearly as hardcore as some of you clearly think it is.But it’s only logical that the ones who play it daily know infinitely more about it than someone like you who never plays it. What made you believe you could know more in the first place? It’s like you’re a plumber arguing with a doctor about medicine.
I contend that the random luck plays a much larger factor that ya'll will admitImpossible. This scheme has already been dissect by Zalo. You’ll never be able to prove your untrue point. Plus if you ever tried showing us a replay of your game in which you want to prove in detail why luck there was a great factor, your lack of technical and strategic skills would make the luck become irrelevant; and if by any chance you become a very good Mole player, by that time you will already have realized that the scheme isn’t greatly about luck as you think now, and then your opinion about it will be a complete reversal.
that it doesn't take as much competency as certain other schemes, and that in general it's kind of noob bait. In AG I am constantly seeing noobs hosting and playing it, which says something.The biggest problem that I see in this is that there is no way newcomers to mole can get to know the TUS scheme easily. I always like to meet new Mole players and show them the right mole path, which is to play TUS scheme instead, so I teach them how to load it in HB. I’ve always assumed that the standard HB scheme isn’t the TUS one just so that the game doesn’t take too long to finish and gets limited to some 20 minutes since a TUS scheme match may take x2 and sometimes even x3 as long, just like a chess match.
The main skill involved in Mole is quite simply just using the mole... making sure that it digs in exactly the way you want it to every time. That doesn't seem like a very difficult task to master compared to many of the other technical skills/competencies present within W:A as a whole. I am certain that if I actually gave a crap about Mole I could master the scheme in a relatively short period of time compared to what it would take to master something like roping, bng, elite, etc. As a matter of fact, this thread has inspired me to start playing more Mole games (with the updated TUS scheme) because I want to see first-hand if there is more to the scheme than I believe or if I am right after all.This is inspiring to read. Go for it, Skunk, work hard and you’ll be a big one like us!
edit 1: I watched that replay file and even though my opponent got TWO select worms via crates, I still only lost because I killed myself with a cow that I thought would pass through a girder. To me it looked like it would work, but instead of going over the girder it dropped right below me and killed me. I was in control of the match pretty much the whole time even though the guy started with 3 of his worms at the top and I only had one.At first, I had seen very useless moves in that match, so when I read this, I thought your analysis was hilarious, but watching the game closely now again, everything you say is true, even though it’s easily noticeable it’s possible to improve in lots of different aspects (and that’s just a old as hell game, I know). It’s not worth making an analysis of such a game due to the many obvious bad moves, so I’ll just comment on the things you said:
edit 2: I played a couple of Mole games today and although it was the HB scheme and not the TUS scheme, it was exactly as I remembered overall in terms of how it's played. I won both games too.Nice, that’s a start. But trust me; there are too many luck factors in HB mole that makes a fair game impossible to be had in serious competition. These factors are Gold Banana Bomb, fast water rise, unlimited girder range and unpredictable super weapons like Concrete Donkey, Armageddon, Indian Nuclear Test, Earthquake etc. You won’t go anywhere playing HB scheme.
In Mole, you can take your time to advance carefully and even to set up ambushes, which I’m pretty sure it’s something you don’t really get to see in these more technical schemes (I might be wrong, but I highly doubt it considering the overall look of the schemes and since that ambushes are organized attacks that require certain elements and time to be prepared, hence naturally occupying a bigger spot in the long-term strategy side). Mole Shopper is much more about strategy, planning than performing the best possible attacks. I do understand the concept of “strategic”.
You can’t really say they “share all that” because they’re very distinct from Mole. Just the fact that the worms start exposed already prevents you from doing many moves and tactics you’d do in Mole.
The thing is that the technical aspect of these schemes is more predominant, so this consequently ends up removing room for the strategic aspect, making it become secondary. It works like a scale (at least as far as WA goes); if you add too much technical aspect, the strategic aspect ends up being reduced and vice versa. You might not know, but killing the worms as fast/efficient as possible in Mole games has nothing to do with being good at it; it’s totally different from Intermediate, in which you gain advantage by simply looking for the most effective attacks possible on a regular basis. I know Intermediate has more than just that, such as putting worms to safety and other things, but the fast flow of the scheme granted by the exposure of your worms that forces you to fight right away already makes it more technical than strategic, whereas Mole is the very opposite.
As I already explained, crate luck is a minor aspect in Mole Shopper, and like you said, you have to adapt to any situation. If you're unlucky with crates in Mole, you have infinite amount of girders to play defensively until you feel ready to decide to risk your worms' safety for a counter-attack. Also, having less worms or less HP doesn’t necessarily mean you’re losing.
And it's not because there are no crates in Intermediate that it automatically becomes more luck-based. The luck you might have in positions in Intermediate, on the other hand, is much more crucial than crates luck in Mole.
:
Even if I lose a game due to my own mistakes, I never ever go with arguments like "ah, he had banana and that's why he won", because I know I'd have had my chance if I hadn't failed a move during the match. Noobs in Mole should be forbidden from talking about luck in crates until they actually understand the game as grandmasters, and by that I mean being capable of explaining their own reasoning for their move choice. Like I already said, the scheme is so rich in strategy and tricks that the biggest spread in the matches are granted much more from to the strategy utilized than from the luck on crates.
Well, I have beaten players who play ages before I even started. Being a newer player or not, it doesn't make a difference. What makes the difference is the efficiency of the strategy you use. Some players learn faster than others, and there are also different playing styles among the players in Mole Shopper. Some are more aggressive, some are more defensive, some go more for crates etc; it all depends on the style that feels more convenient for them to play, and this is one of the aspects I like the most in Mole; it makes the game scenarios become even more variable and consequently enriches the scheme.
QuoteI also fail to understand how or why Mole supposedly requires a greater degree of tactical OR technical skill than any other scheme. Knowing when to hide, knowing how to chute, knowing how to best utilize a weapon and when, knowing how to darkside, etc.... these are all competencies shared by many other schemes. Mole isn't unique in this regard by any means.
If you're so sure about that, then why don't you bring your best Intermediate player to face the best Mole Shopper Player in Mole Shopper? That would be a way to confirm if what you're saying is true or not.
Hahaha... funny contradiction of yours here when you say you don't understand how I can dismiss the overall luck factor right after saying “I can, in my head, understand how the game will play”. The answer is simple: you simply can’t! You can’t because you haven’t got the slightest idea of how the strategy in that game plays like. It’s just like getting a chess variant of which you only know the rules and start saying you know everything that is possible and what is not, how it will play etc…
I have won many games in which my arsenal was x3 smaller than my opponent’s. The crate access might be random, but the victory access at the end of the day is not. Again, you might have the weapons, but you might not be able to use them. It’s no surprise that the terrain is all enclosed and there are unlimited girders. This scheme is indeed a masterpiece.
(rant about skunk3 talk)
Many times during a match you’ll prefer using the simple Mole Bomb instead of a stronger weapon, even if you have a Banana Bomb, kinda like why Snake wields a knife along with his handgun in MGS3.
QuoteI was only attempting to argue that Mole isn't nearly as hardcore as some of you clearly think it is.But it’s only logical that the ones who play it daily know infinitely more about it than someone like you who never plays it. What made you believe you could know more in the first place? It’s like you’re a plumber arguing with a doctor about medicine.
CRATE LUCK MEANS NOTHINGquite the ignorance mantra right here
YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MOLE
ANYONE WHO DISAGREES SHOULD BE FORBIDDEN TO TALK
THE SCHEME IS SO RICH IN STRATEGY
THE SCHEME IS MASTERPIECE
Dude it's not about saying whether mole shopper is luck based or not and nobody cares out of the mole shopping community, it's about having the arrogance to say it's the most.You are right. There is no way I can know for sure; only someone who is a grandmaster in all schemes can. I admit I burned out a little too much here, but I’d say it was much more of a defensive anger reaction that made me write all of this. It’s just that I read some things here that prevented me from keeping quiet… seeing people talking stuff they don’t know and disregarding unique types of achievements as well as part of Worms Armageddon history…
Sorry everyone, you can keep talking whatever you want; I don’t have time for this anyway, but at least I’ve shared my knowledge and opinion. I won’t answer things in this thread any longer.Looks like Gabriel just shredded the cheap veneer on your wall of text, and there is no substance behind it.
Looks like Gabriel just shredded the cheap veneer on your wall of text, and there is no substance behind it.So you attack others from behind their back? What a coward! I don't care what crap you type; you will never be man enough to challenge me in this scheme that you so call not top 3 strategic!
Just say that, because you look a lot sillier standing by your straw man argument.
I like your passion and your guile, but your heart is in the wrong place. Mole shopper isn't even a top 3 strategic/tactical scheme.
QuoteLooks like Gabriel just shredded the cheap veneer on your wall of text, and there is no substance behind it.So you attack others from behind their back? What a coward! I don't care what crap you type; you will never be man enough to challenge me in this scheme that you so call not top 3 strategic!
Just say that, because you look a lot sillier standing by your straw man argument.
I like your passion and your guile, but your heart is in the wrong place. Mole shopper isn't even a top 3 strategic/tactical scheme.
QuoteLooks like Gabriel just shredded the cheap veneer on your wall of text, and there is no substance behind it.So you attack others from behind their back? What a coward! I don't care what crap you type; you will never be man enough to challenge me in this scheme that you so call not top 3 strategic!
Just say that, because you look a lot sillier standing by your straw man argument.
I like your passion and your guile, but your heart is in the wrong place. Mole shopper isn't even a top 3 strategic/tactical scheme.
Well Said Magnus, That's the point that they just don't understand, and they will never be able to. We can win 1 out of 3 cave Intermediate rounds against Top Player, but there is not way they win at least 1 out of 10 Mole games against us, or against Darmin.
Hearing that Intermediate with island maps and random placements , or Elite, with 20 sec used primarly for the 2x reflex roping, are strategic based just makes me burt out laughing...
Walrus seems to have forgotten not killing a single worm in a game against me when we last played 2 years ago.
Why are you putting to my mouth words that I didn't say...?
So you wanna go hard on me and walrus? On mole? Hahaha. Then let me ask you the same question: how many rope schemes can you beat me on? How many bngs can you win against walrus? Oh i can already tell the answer, but we don't care. Because we know you don't play these schemes, therefore there would be no challenge, and we don't need to go around saying "heHe LoOk at me im so Go0d c4n u beat me? XDXDXD". You know, i wasn't even mad about the mole thing in this topic, it's quite a good scheme, with whatever luck factor is it (i don't care), i've been also accepting the fact it is the most played scheme right now, because somehow it may keep this game alive. But your arrogance.. That's out any boundaries...You don't have to act like an autistic child just because you happened to be good in a scheme during a period where none even plays, you're not a god. Get your feet on the ground and behave n@#!!!, your god streak wouldn't have lasted a day if all the old school god wuz hereQuoteLooks like Gabriel just shredded the cheap veneer on your wall of text, and there is no substance behind it.So you attack others from behind their back? What a coward! I don't care what crap you type; you will never be man enough to challenge me in this scheme that you so call not top 3 strategic!
Just say that, because you look a lot sillier standing by your straw man argument.
I like your passion and your guile, but your heart is in the wrong place. Mole shopper isn't even a top 3 strategic/tactical scheme.
Well Said Magnus, That's the point that they just don't understand, and they will never be able to. We can win 1 out of 3 cave Intermediate rounds against Top Player, but there is not way they win at least 1 out of 10 Mole games against us, or against Darmin.
So you wanna go hard on me and walrus? On mole? Hahaha. Then let me ask you the same question: how many rope schemes can you beat me on? How many bngs can you win against walrus?
I used to hate mole, I thought it was a scheme that just contained luck as well. To be honest, with the amount of matches I had with Zalo, my perception totally changed. You just see in his game that he has an answer to (almost) any tactic, and any sort of lucky moves you have. Skunk3, Id definitely recommend you to play against a top player, to rethink about your opinion about this scheme when you have done that.
Let's conclude this. It's getting out of hands.Don't have time for 10 games, all you sensei, you spineless coward! ;D
There's bunch of ppl saying: mole is shit, mole is luck, mole is for noobs.
We need 1 volounteer that will practice mole few days and challenge Zalo.
It was 10 games right? 1 win = 40$.
Seems like a nice deal. And guy obviously wanna prove he's untouchable at this scheme atm.
If there's really no one to stand up and challenge him for that 1/10, maybe it's time to let him speak freely cause we're all looking like bunch of spineless cowards.
You still keep making statements of your personal mole experience, which is basically as same as other tactical schemes. Every game can have hundreds of different scenarios, it's obvious,otherwise none would play this game anymore. Stop making it sound like it's something incredible. Until you play and beat any of the other top player schemes you have to shut your mouth
I didn't say that nobody will ever beat me, Darmin is the closest to doing so but he plays for 6+ years. Magnus for 3-4 years played constantly with me. None of you will ever get close to what they know about the scheme. None of you will know 5% what it takes to defeat either them or me....
By saying "I won 3 Cups won in a row with 3 Golds, 32x playes per Cup & 100x tus games won in a row in the period of 14 months" I simply wanted you to come to the conclusion how far people like walrus, skunk, or you sbaffo are from defeating me. How far you are from defeating Magnus or Darmin doesn't lie far from it.
So you are saying nobody would be able to beat you, in like ever? You are saying you are so good at Mole Shopper that nobody would be able to catch up if they tried?
After reading this, I am deeply disappointed in this community as a collective.
This quote sums it up all the ignorance here:You still keep making statements of your personal mole experience, which is basically as same as other tactical schemes. Every game can have hundreds of different scenarios, it's obvious,otherwise none would play this game anymore. Stop making it sound like it's something incredible. Until you play and beat any of the other top player schemes you have to shut your mouth
This is basically saying, "We won't play your scheme until you play ours, and even if you do play ours we won't play yours because we're right and you're wrong."
Jesus, i've met some of my favourite people in life on this game but this is the most ignorant, selfish community i've ever been part of...
I find it hilarious, you all dissing Mole Shopper so much, yet NONE of you have actually played it enough to even understand what this guy is saying, you make assumptions based on your own expertise of the game as a whole, which, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, isn't enough, I don't care how good you are at any scheme or how much knowledge you have of the game as a whole.
This is how it is, Mole Shoppers won't play your schemes, you won't play Mole Shopper.
So why the f**k are you even arguing?
The funny thing is, and this is why I said this community reminds me of ISIS/Terrorists, and I got banned for it in the past, because the way your mind works, your inability to be convinced of another purpose in life than your own agenda, incapable of understanding the needs and desires of other people and learning/tolerating/accepting them.
Even i've changed my mind in this thread, I read his post carefully with no pre-made decision or hatred towards him or Mole Shopper. And HE made ME change my opinion of Mole Shopper.
The very 1st time i've ever saw this guy post, and he manages to do what pretty much NONE of you have ever been able to do in 7 years.
This community needs more people like Magnus, and less 1 track minded people like you guys who do nothing but ridicule, bully and act negative.
To give you a little bit of an idea, this happened yesterday, I went out of my way to wait for Zalo to appear in AG yesterday, when he did I asked him to play some Mole Shoppers with the best player available in #AG right at the present time, do you know what he said lol...
"I just beat MyCy 7x in a row, no report anywhere"
I wanted to watch him play I don't care about statistics, I want to watch the guy who considers himself to be god at Mole Shopper, in action, so I can judge and assess for myself...
Instead he starts telling me "if you wanna see good league game there are replays... blah blah" I just logged back out at this point lol.
dude, I misunderstood you. You said sth like "Can you show me some games with the best player now?" so I thought you ask me about some recent replays on high level, I had NO CLUE you want to actually watch me live (O_o)
(you are the first person asking for that to be honest)
dude, I misunderstood you. You said sth like "Can you show me some games with the best player now?" so I thought you ask me about some recent replays on high level, I had NO CLUE you want to actually watch me live (O_o)
(you are the first person asking for that to be honest)
Ah, ok then, no worries, that's cool, i'll come online today and watch a few if I get a chance and you are online :)
If I am gonna judge Mole Shopper(and you), I will at least put in effort, unlike most around here :P
So you are saying nobody would be able to beat you, in like ever? You are saying you are so good at Mole Shopper that nobody would be able to catch up if they tried?
THIS is what pisses me off about this topic Zalo, it's your sheer delusions of grandeur, claiming nobody could ever be as good as you ever, claiming Mole Shopper as the greatest although you haven't even played all the schemes available.
Man, I fully understand I am widely regarded as the GOAT BnG player... But honestly, if Asians suddenly flooded this game, you would find people like Anubis for warmer, Mablak for TTRR, Zalo of Mole Shopper, myself for BnG, Volcom in Roper, we would be as common as black and white, perhaps even be exceeded easily.
This is weird that I created topic who just in couple days make 10 sites and so many replies , wish you can be all so active in worms as in tus too :D
Gott love how Dave doesn't miss a single chance to wank at himself ;D ;D
The fact that starting spawns and random crate luck determine who is going to win to such a large degree turns a lot of people off
I didn't contradict myself
I can say with certainty that there are great Worms players who do not play W:A. Sure, they might struggle if they switched to W:A due to mechanical differences but their basic Worms skills and knowledge are at least on par with good W:A players. I've also noticed that when it comes to WMD in particular there is a number of Asian players and I don't know what their Worms background is, but some of them are pretty darn good. In fact, I lost a ranked game a couple of weeks ago to some Chinese guy I've never heard of. I too believe that there's plenty of people out there who could be tremendous Worms players if they only knew about the game and/or practiced enough to excel. However, I don't think that W:A is likely to see a new legend spring forth from the newer generation of players for multiple reasons. (Lack of active high-level players, lack of competitive push, small player base, noob schemes, people losing interest, et al...)So you are saying nobody would be able to beat you, in like ever? You are saying you are so good at Mole Shopper that nobody would be able to catch up if they tried?
THIS is what pisses me off about this topic Zalo, it's your sheer delusions of grandeur, claiming nobody could ever be as good as you ever, claiming Mole Shopper as the greatest although you haven't even played all the schemes available.
Man, I fully understand I am widely regarded as the GOAT BnG player... But honestly, if Asians suddenly flooded this game, you would find people like Anubis for warmer, Mablak for TTRR, Zalo of Mole Shopper, myself for BnG, Volcom in Roper, we would be as common as black and white, perhaps even be exceeded easily.
I have always believed that the only reason we had special snowflakes in W:A is because of lack of players. We managed to get really good at this game no doubt. But for everyone that stepped up in the past there would be dozens others if we had a bigger player-base. There is a saying, somewhere there is ALWAYS a bigger fish. I would bet all my belongings that our greatest players would not be the greatest if we had more players that played this game. This also means, the less competition/players you play with, the lower the chances are that you are the greatest because only through challenge and failure you can truly become the best. Nobody is trying to take away your proficiency in Mole Shopper, Zalo, but to be the greatest you would not need to prove it, people would know it.
The fact that starting spawns and random crate luck determine who is going to win to such a large degree turns a lot of people offI didn't contradict myself
because random spawns in Intermediate totally don't turn anyone off
https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-98/Having normal mole makes the game worse and less skillful because you can always jump up in the hole it makes. Also not sure why you weaken the nade and stuff but leave shotgun, baseball bat, firepunch, airstrike, etc all high powered. Your inconsistent changes just create a scheme that only the host knows, giving them an advantage.
The only 1 mole scheme which I resect - normal mole, nade, cluster, zook, mortar power.
Also, I've noticed that in various Mole schemes there is a lot of inconsistency (as mentioned previously) and the cluster bombs in particular are stupidly OP. In fact, I just finished a game a few minutes ago in which it was even until the guy got 3 clusters in a crate and then proceeded to kill 3 of my worms on 3 subsequent turns, leaving me at a huge disadvantage that I eventually couldn't overcome due to the fact that even though I had turn advantage, the guy got wayyyyy more crates than me and had a bunch of noob weapons like super sheep, homing pigeon, etc. I couldn't hide high, I couldn't hide low.
I also couldn't move every single worm into a position in which they weren't likely to get killed by clusters.
I noticed that whoever starts girder-f@#!ing the other person first by trapping their worms gets a huge advantage because you essentially HAVE TO waste a turn torching or mole-ing your way out at one point or another.do it first
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-201856/ <-- 2nd round, 12:55, an example of surviving a banana simply because of a good hide. My worm survived even though it wasn't even fully healthy.
https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-98/Having normal mole makes the game worse and less skillful because you can always jump up in the hole it makes. Also not sure why you weaken the nade and stuff but leave shotgun, baseball bat, firepunch, airstrike, etc all high powered. Your inconsistent changes just create a scheme that only the host knows, giving them an advantage.
The only 1 mole scheme which I resect - normal mole, nade, cluster, zook, mortar power.
Well i've sat and watched about 4 hours worth of Mole Shopper
I still haven't finished watching, I still want to watch at least another 10 hours
What about me? :(
I am probably one of the top 10 bungee experts. But none gives a shit about bungee schemes lol.
Komo, First of all, Why are lying that it was 3-2 with Yakuza?
It was 3-1, when I was watching England Croatia, also together with you, we were both commentating on the match.
It just shows how little you watched our games or you simply didn't care to do so.
It's easy for you to say how "you would do things different" and yet you wouldn't win a single game, why? because your imagination of what it takes to win it is pretty inaccurate.
Moreover, you imagination about Mablak or Random00 is higher than in reality
I'm sorry but Mablak or Random00 would easily lose against me. End of Story. Prove me wrong.
What I am saying is that in Mole you don't win by accident and Random00 would need to practice for months to be able to win.
There are only 2 people that can defeat me in 5 games - Darmin and Magnus
And the awards for the most self-entitled prick goes to
Here we go again... -__- just play against me, I will poke you today on #AG. Why are we even wasting time here.QuoteAlso, I've noticed that in various Mole schemes there is a lot of inconsistency (as mentioned previously) and the cluster bombs in particular are stupidly OP. In fact, I just finished a game a few minutes ago in which it was even until the guy got 3 clusters in a crate and then proceeded to kill 3 of my worms on 3 subsequent turns, leaving me at a huge disadvantage that I eventually couldn't overcome due to the fact that even though I had turn advantage, the guy got wayyyyy more crates than me and had a bunch of noob weapons like super sheep, homing pigeon, etc. I couldn't hide high, I couldn't hide low.
That proves to me that you just suck at hiding, you can survive even banana if you know how to hide and be ready for the worst... you died from clusters? Please, they barely take 70-80hp if you know how to hide well.
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-201856/ <-- 2nd round, 12:55, an example of surviving a banana simply because of a good hide. My worm survived even though it wasn't even fully healthy.QuoteI also couldn't move every single worm into a position in which they weren't likely to get killed by clusters.
Now you are just being ridiculous... You simply didn't know how hiding works.
I honestly think you are just a little bit jealous because the scheme you love is unpopular and nobody cares, I know that feeling trust me, I absolutely loved Darts, even more than BnG, but nobody cared about it...
Ofc you're top10, when bungee is played by 8 ppl haha :D
Because you haven't made any topic about it yet. What are you waiting for???? 11!1!4?1
Komo... komo komo komo... then why all the people joke now that Tus is basically Mole Website now? why in the survey Mole is described as "the only scheme that can be found here"
You are just being dellusional calling it unpopular :)
Mole is one of the most popular schemes on Worms currently, that's because most people left Worms and it's all that's left lol, THAT is why you are delusional, because you can't see it.
You aren't just delusional, you don't even know history lol.
Is it? They have actually proven themselves over many many years how good they are at this game in general, you, have not, that's a simple fact.
100x tus games won in a row, 3x cups with 3 golds, 32x players / cup and I still haven't proven myself to you?
My point for f*cks sake wasn't to show that nobody can defeat me, but the fact that mole is not luck based scheme, and that you can win multiple times without the factor of luck. Something you totally lost track of in your delluded logic. Watching football matches is something that works better for you, at least you know what's the score is.
I am confident daina could win 1/5 games after practising for 1 month.
Do you mean 1/5 individual games? Or 1/5 matches consisting each of Bo5?
So how many games i need to win and how much $ im winning? This discussion is boring, lets end it. Havent played in months but give me 2 or 3 days to practice the scheme and lets do it!!!
Let's play within 7 days from now, please. Later I will have too much work and little time.
Let's play within 7 days from now, please. Later I will have too much work and little time.
Ahahaha, nice excuse, want to increase your chances of victory, good choice ;) ;)
It's on!!!
Maybe we should sign a petition to ban Mole Shoppers?Mole shoppa, like torn/ripped jeans on young women, is a mere fad and will disappear in a few years.
You mean yourselves.
Mole is the most strategy & tactical based game, just like chess. Everybody who doesn't enjoy it is simply a sub-human. Unless you play on a resolution higher than 1366x768. If so, then I feel sorry for you, cuz you probably suck at jumping from pixel to pixel. Streamed 1920x1080 looks like sh*t.
Bahahaha….
Mole Shopper is a joke, my friend. It is basically a noob version of regular shopper in which you don't even need rope skills, or one could look at it as a sort of dumbed-town Team17. Much of the game is total luck and randomness and requires very little strategy compared to, say, Elite or Intermediate at high levels. The reason why so many noobs play Mole is because it's so easy and basically anyone has a chance of winning regardless of personal skill.
Luck based scheme? Dude, I would easily crush you in this scheme 300x times in a row. Everything is a skill over there
- hiding
- mole as a bumerang
- knowing when to steal, when to invade
- sprint across the map + parachute jumps to extreme extent
- the best possible executions, even with the worst weapons that you've got
Dude, I mean it. I will pay you 40$ if you ever defeat me in 20 games. Do you accept the challenge? It's so annoying to have ignorants like you, calling everything they don't know "Luck-Based". It's just sh*t mentality.
having a "good hide" is total bullshit. There is no such thing as a "good hide" from weapons like bananas if your opponent can reach you.
basically as long as your worm can get knocked out of the way via the first explosion you can avoid taking further damage from the banana clusters.(http://dump.thecybershadow.net/5211f7000fdfda3c39c89db9ae3637ba/thinking-face_1f914.png)
having a "good hide" is total bullshit. There is no such thing as a "good hide" from weapons like bananas if your opponent can reach you.basically as long as your worm can get knocked out of the way via the first explosion you can avoid taking further damage from the banana clusters.(http://dump.thecybershadow.net/5211f7000fdfda3c39c89db9ae3637ba/thinking-face_1f914.png)
@Zalo, I find your commitment to Mole Shopper more impressive than your skills, because I personally agree with skunk, it's nowhere near as highly skilled as you think it is. And i'll always expect you to defend that, it's admirable haha!
I have been constantly playing it for 5-6 hours every day since March 2013 and there is still some battlefield movements that I need to polish. I am ready for 100+ scenarios in the game, and I want to be ready for +150.
Anyone wants to earn 40$? way is open, just win in any of 5 games against me, and 40$ is yours.
i'll be back in a week and skip the next 8 pages.
Ok Zalo, i'm ready for it. next Wednesday 20:00 GMT?
clearly there is a growth in popularity of schemes like mole and supersheeper
but still players online enjoying classic schemes who remember high tus league activity.
I think the solution to a competitive league environment is to merge classic and free league. An open league where any scheme is played (it has to be a recognised scheme available for download on tus website).
Make the seasons 30 days again, and make it simple 3 points for a lose, minus 1 point for a lose.
Playoff schemes would be all avaiable schemes and higher seed picks first, seeing as there would be loads of free league schemes and classic make it like bo5. Or work that out later if league activity picked up.
I'd have no problem playing mole, sheeper, inter etc if i meant i could pick my favourite classic schemes and still be crowned best wormer at the end of a season..
Does MI have time to code anymore?
clearly there is a growth in popularity of schemes like mole and supersheeper
but still players online enjoying classic schemes who remember high tus league activity.
I think the solution to a competitive league environment is to merge classic and free league. An open league where any scheme is played (it has to be a recognised scheme available for download on tus website).
Make the seasons 30 days again, and make it simple 3 points for a lose, minus 1 point for a lose.
Playoff schemes would be all avaiable schemes and higher seed picks first, seeing as there would be loads of free league schemes and classic make it like bo5. Or work that out later if league activity picked up.
I'd have no problem playing mole, sheeper, inter etc if i meant i could pick my favourite classic schemes and still be crowned best wormer at the end of a season..
Does MI have time to code anymore?
that won't work, because any scheme maker (and at the same time host) could make a rule of "first person who gets a turn can use invis" or something dumb like that. Imagination is the limit here.
about activity, I'm in the middle of making an english version of VitAp's big tutorial, let's see how activity will go after that released. I might also need an editor for this.