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July 22, 2018, 05:53 PM

Poll

why don't you play worms armageddon ?

coz Im retarted and I prefer to play fortnite
coz no time, work, school,family, sport etc
coz too many keyboards damaged
coz when I come to AG, the only game I can find in 1 hour is mole...
coz I am noob :( and the only game I can win is shoppa with CPU1
coz I am still waiting untill 3.8 will be realised
coz I am gay and I prefer other activities
coz nobody left to play league and I am not interesting in for fun games
other reason - please write

Voting closes: April 28, 2019, 09:48 PM

Author Topic: Why don't you play worms armageddon anymore?  (Read 2668 times)

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Offline skunk3

Re: Why don't you play worms armageddon anymore?
« Reply #150 on: July 12, 2018, 04:27 AM »
The fact that starting spawns and random crate luck determine who is going to win to such a large degree turns a lot of people off
I didn't contradict myself

because random spawns in Intermediate totally don't turn anyone off

Did you miss the "and?"

I said starting spawns AND random crate luck determine who is going to win to a large degree. When it comes to a game like this, more than one chance-based gameplay element is multiplicative rather than additive when it comes to how luck-based a scheme is. Besides, if spawns are random in both Mole and Intermediate, why would the Mole player have a reason to complain since that is what they are used to already? I get that random spawns can be potentially way more dangerous in Intermediate than they are in Mole, but still...

I don't consider that a contradiction. Besides, I think that Intermediate should have manual placement, at least for TUS or any sort of cups/tourneys/etc. You do get some Select Worms to use but if you don't get to go first, that can be a major disadvantage. Intermediate was just mentioned for an example because it's probably the most commonly-played scheme in the history of Worms.

Offline Zalo

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Re: Why don't you play worms armageddon anymore?
« Reply #151 on: July 12, 2018, 07:55 AM »
Let's just play skunk.... ^ ^ follow piki's advice from 2 years back...

(that's my last post here)





Offline Chelsea

Re: Why don't you play worms armageddon anymore?
« Reply #152 on: July 12, 2018, 05:04 PM »
https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-98/

The only 1 mole scheme which I resect - normal mole, nade, cluster, zook, mortar power.

Offline Senator

Re: Why don't you play worms armageddon anymore?
« Reply #153 on: July 12, 2018, 06:39 PM »
I choose tita for this challenge!!

Offline j0e

Re: Why don't you play worms armageddon anymore?
« Reply #154 on: July 12, 2018, 10:02 PM »
https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-98/

The only 1 mole scheme which I resect - normal mole, nade, cluster, zook, mortar power.
Having normal mole makes the game worse and less skillful because you can always jump up in the hole it makes. Also not sure why you weaken the nade and stuff but leave shotgun, baseball bat, firepunch, airstrike, etc all high powered. Your inconsistent changes just create a scheme that only the host knows, giving them an advantage.

Offline Senator

Re: Why don't you play worms armageddon anymore?
« Reply #155 on: July 13, 2018, 06:36 AM »
Actually that scheme has mole at 5 stars. Everything else is weakened except bow and punches (why?).

I played a game with Zalo some time ago and we had normal weapon powers except for mole. I think it worked fine. In my books Mole Shopper is in the same category with T17. What kills the scheme for me is those silly weapon powers..
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 07:41 AM by Senator »

Offline skunk3

Re: Why don't you play worms armageddon anymore?
« Reply #156 on: July 13, 2018, 09:05 AM »
I played some TUS Mole games earlier today and I gotta say that it doesn't change my opinion. The game is still highly dependent upon crate luck, and the never-ending girder spam and using girders as aiming tools is just plain annoying. I think that using girders to help you aim your mole shots should be, at minimum, ridiculed and at best it should be straight-up against the rules.

Also, I've noticed that in various Mole schemes there is a lot of inconsistency (as mentioned previously) and the cluster bombs in particular are stupidly OP. In fact, I just finished a game a few minutes ago in which it was even until the guy got 3 clusters in a crate and then proceeded to kill 3 of my worms on 3 subsequent turns, leaving me at a huge disadvantage that I eventually couldn't overcome due to the fact that even though I had turn advantage, the guy got wayyyyy more crates than me and had a bunch of noob weapons like super sheep, homing pigeon, etc. I couldn't hide high, I couldn't hide low. I couldn't girder block because all the guy had to do was get favorable wind and he could chute to me. There was nothing that I could do at all aside from just avoid the inevitable for a couple of turns.

I mentioned in the chat how the scheme is a joke and that there's so much luck involved and he basically proceeded to tell me that it was my fault for losing because I left my worms in spots that could be 1-shotted by clusters. Yeah, that makes sense. The only places where the cluster COULDN'T one shot a worm made them sitting ducks for a number of other weapons. I also couldn't move every single worm into a position in which they weren't likely to get killed by clusters. Also, I noticed that whoever starts girder-fucking the other person first by trapping their worms gets a huge advantage because you essentially HAVE TO waste a turn torching or mole-ing your way out at one point or another. Meanwhile, they're picking up crates and positioning and can sometimes just girder-fuck you again, which resets the whole stupid debacle.

There definitely is a strategy to it, that I can't deny. However, it's a really annoying, stupid, and highly luck-informed strategy. Skilled / long distance shot-making doesn't really exist in mole and it's basically played just as I said before, only I totally underestimated the amount of girder spamming and using girders as lame and infinite aiming tools. 
 

Offline Zalo

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Re: Why don't you play worms armageddon anymore?
« Reply #157 on: July 13, 2018, 10:35 AM »
Here we go again... -__- just play against me, I will poke you today on #AG. Why are we even wasting time here.

Quote
Also, I've noticed that in various Mole schemes there is a lot of inconsistency (as mentioned previously) and the cluster bombs in particular are stupidly OP. In fact, I just finished a game a few minutes ago in which it was even until the guy got 3 clusters in a crate and then proceeded to kill 3 of my worms on 3 subsequent turns, leaving me at a huge disadvantage that I eventually couldn't overcome due to the fact that even though I had turn advantage, the guy got wayyyyy more crates than me and had a bunch of noob weapons like super sheep, homing pigeon, etc. I couldn't hide high, I couldn't hide low.

That proves to me that you just suck at hiding, you can survive even banana if you know how to hide and be ready for the worst... you died from clusters? Please, they barely take 70-80hp if you know how to hide well.

https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-201856/ <-- 2nd round, 12:55, an example of surviving a banana simply because of a good hide. My worm survived even though it wasn't even fully healthy.

Quote
I also couldn't move every single worm into a position in which they weren't likely to get killed by clusters.

Now you are just being ridiculous... You simply didn't know how hiding works.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 10:59 AM by Zalo »





Offline WTF-8

Re: Why don't you play worms armageddon anymore?
« Reply #158 on: July 13, 2018, 10:45 AM »
I noticed that whoever starts girder-fucking the other person first by trapping their worms gets a huge advantage because you essentially HAVE TO waste a turn torching or mole-ing your way out at one point or another.
do it first

could also attach the replay so we can tell you what did you do wrong
or point fingers at you getting rekt
~~~~

Offline Sensei

Re: Why don't you play worms armageddon anymore?
« Reply #159 on: July 13, 2018, 11:03 AM »
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-201856/ <-- 2nd round, 12:55, an example of surviving a banana simply because of a good hide. My worm survived even though it wasn't even fully healthy.

Holy shit. He pulled out 3yrs old replay out of the sleeve.

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Offline Zalo

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Re: Why don't you play worms armageddon anymore?
« Reply #160 on: July 13, 2018, 11:14 AM »
That's simply because I don't play any ranked games for 2-3 years, so I gave example of a ranked match.

Okay Sensei, Here is replay from last night game where I survived banana because of a good hide (25:30). It really isn't difficult to hide well.





Offline Chelsea

Re: Why don't you play worms armageddon anymore?
« Reply #161 on: July 13, 2018, 01:34 PM »
https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-98/

The only 1 mole scheme which I resect - normal mole, nade, cluster, zook, mortar power.
Having normal mole makes the game worse and less skillful because you can always jump up in the hole it makes. Also not sure why you weaken the nade and stuff but leave shotgun, baseball bat, firepunch, airstrike, etc all high powered. Your inconsistent changes just create a scheme that only the host knows, giving them an advantage.

Ahh I forgot to say - all weapons has normal power - pubch, bar aircstrike also.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: Why don't you play worms armageddon anymore?
« Reply #162 on: July 13, 2018, 02:56 PM »
Well i've sat and watched about 4 hours worth of Mole Shopper with Zalo playing good players, so far the best person he's played was a guy called Yakuza and the final score was 3-2 to Zalo.

I still haven't finished watching, I still want to watch at least another 10 hours, with various players.

And as for saying using natural things as aiming tools should be banned, why? You are using what was given to you, you aren't getting an advantage nobody else can use, just like I place my thumb on the screen when re-aiming in BnG, it's not my fault other people are too stubborn or stupid and will openly accept defeat because of something so easy to do lol, you can sit there and complain calling it lame all you want, but it's still gonna happen and you can either join people in greatness, or sit back and get left behind, your choice, we don't care lol.

I think it's a sign of intelligence, finding natural ways like this to improve your skills.

My verdict on Mole Shopper so far:

It's a lot more strategic than skunk says, but less than what Zalo says, I strongly believe Zalo is a highly skilled player, but still makes mistakes he wouldn't get away with against a player like Mablak/Random00.

He's good, but I don't think he even realizes what a great opponent is yet, since everybody he's played imo is quite amateur, Yakuza was his best opponent, and even Yakuza made way too many simple mistakes.

Watching Zalo using weapons versus watching Mablak using weapons, Mablak is more accurate, efficient and effective, but Zalo is getting there man, don't underestimate him.

-------

I made a mistake above:

16:34:35 ZALO: bro, why you said "3-2" with yakuza? it was 2:1
16:34:46 ZALO: and 3:1 counting the game that you left
16:35:06 dP`Komodo: Ah was it? I remember missing 1st games, I lost track of time
16:35:11 dP`Komodo: Cuz you said 2:2 at some point in convo
16:35:15 dP`Komodo: Must have meant something else
16:35:18 dP`Komodo: My bad, will edit that
16:35:23 ZALO: Croatia vs England 2-2
16:35:29 ZALO: xd
16:35:43 dP`Komodo: Ahhhh lol, yeah sorry haha


« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 03:36 PM by TheKomodo »


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Offline Zalo

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Re: Why don't you play worms armageddon anymore?
« Reply #163 on: July 13, 2018, 04:02 PM »
Komo, You mentioned Random00 or Mablak. Man, I did watch their games today morning and their amount of wasted turns is more than I can count (not to offend anyone). I am sorry to say, I simply watched their few games, I can be wrong. I don't mind not finishing a worm down below if he is gonna waste 2x turns for climbing out. For you it's a mistake, for me it's not. There are many things in the game that simply don't matter, and don't change the course of the final result. You wouldn't stand the actual mistake-less mole match, because mistake-less match is a match with a bunch of blocking, one that takes 80+ minutes sometimes. I am not used to having an actual challenge, so please, give me any opponent and I will defeat him/her.





Offline TheKomodo

Re: Why don't you play worms armageddon anymore?
« Reply #164 on: July 13, 2018, 04:27 PM »
Zalo, a few things ok.

Random00 & Mablak are much better than you at Worms Armageddon overall, their achievements are MUCH greater than yours, in multiple schemes, you have a higher win % than them, but you only played amateurs, and Mole Shopper is the ONLY thing you are very good at, because you are the ONLY good Mole Shopper player, the only person who has the knowledge of the scheme itself, and worms in general.

I saw you making mistakes every game, so many kill chances missed because your timing was bad, or your pixel placement of weapons was bad, most of your "amazing" attacks were obvious moves or getting the right weapon at the right time, combined with your opponents lack of knowledge which made you look better than you are.

Also what skunk3 said about using girders as aim assist, which makes up a huge portion of skill/strategy in the game, is extremely simple a 4 year old kid could learn that.

But you had the superior knowledge of the scheme, and WA knowledge, and luck with crates getting bananas and cluster bombs, combined with the constant mistakes your opponents were making.

Another extremely important fact here.

Mole shopper is EXTREMELY boring to play, your addiction to this scheme isn't far from being called obsessive compulsive disorder behaviour. (Like me, for BnG.)

Anybody that is good enough to beat you in this scheme, just can't handle the sheer boredom of blocking for 60+ minutes.

This is such a huge issue that you fail to realize, it makes you think you are some kind of superstar because you are the only good player...

"I simply watched their few games"... Well yeah, if somebody doesn't enjoy something very much, chances are they won't learn it will they lol.

--------------------------------------

I have a question for you Zalo:

When a person understands every single invidual element of what makes another person good at something, and they have the same physical and mental capabilities, what do you think stops them from becoming as good as them?

Please think about this carefully before answering, when you have your 1st answer, think of another answer.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 04:35 PM by TheKomodo »


https://www.tus-wa.com/files/file-1235/

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