Yes, the luck can balance itself out, that's still more luck though.

If the luck balances out, you can't really say island T17s are more luck based.

It's as if people associate luck with being less skilled or bad, that isn't what i'm saying at all.

By definition, the more luck based something is, the less skill involved. They're inversely correlated. I don't think anyone thinks you're saying that T17 doesn't involve any skill at all, but by saying it's one of the more luck based schemes (but contradicting yourself by saying the luck balances out), you're effectively saying that it takes less skill than other schemes.

Basically every non-race scheme has a fair amount of luck in it but they tend to even out over time. I think one potential reason for lower win rates for T17 in past leagues is that it hasn't always been the most popular competitive scheme. If you only have the top T17 players playing each other, there won't be as high % win rate.

It's like Hearthstone or MTG or other card games.. they have heavy luck components and at the top level the highest win rates tend to start to even out at something like 70%. But there are dramatic skill differences in those games, even with the fairly limited number of decisions that can be made at each turn (compared to most worms schemes where the options are pretty limitless).

I can't remember a time when teleciding was ever against the rules in T17. It's pretty easy to defend against..

The pairings have been made, good luck everyone! Let me know if you need help organizing your games.

Yes, and now in Island Team17, there is more luck because there are more opportunities, more weapons, more room to do stuff. You don't have as much protection, there are more ways to attack and be attacked, it's more challenging to control areas of the map because the map is open.

Every single crate you pick up has the power to sway the game, getting the right thing at the right time, or getting the right thing at the wrong time etc.

In caverns, you can control the map better because of the design and actual weapons that spawn in crates.

I really think it's just about the same amount of luck involved, just different types. In caverns, where the crate spawns is a huge luck factor as well. Initial worm spawns can also heavily influence the game. Any differences are pretty insignificant when looking at the game as a whole.

I'm not having a go at people who enjoy it, different strokes for different folks, personally I don't want anything to do with Island Team17 though, it just gets me frustrated even thinking about that scheme.

It sort of seems like you're having a slight go at people who enjoy it by equating it to slots and downplaying the skill involved. If it gets you frustrated thinking about it, and you don't want anything to do with it, why are you here? I guess I was a bit bummed to see this Island T17-bashing thread right when we're trying to hype up this cup and get our remaining players. I would think you as the cup moderator would want to help with that cause rather than try to turn people off to the entire format..

So technically we have 12 pairs complete (24 participants) + GABO1000.

Maybe if nothing changes, we just start off this weekend and GABO1000 will be there to replace some inactive/absent player? (for sure there will be at least 2 inactive ones out of 24). I am just afraid that pulling more participants will result in these participants never finding a time to play their cup matches or looking for excuses not to play, and postponing it forever.

Also if you want to make sure the team on #2 place is the one actual 2nd best in the cup, rather than just weaker enemy that just happened to be on the opposite side of the bracket, just being the last one to fight the winner, I support the idea of Double Elimination.

With us only being 4 players away from 32 I think we should wait. I get your point about a few players being inactive -- for that we'll just have to give people byes unfortunately. The cup is set to double elimination, I agree with you there.

Everyone should reach out to their friends that play T17 to join the cup, we're so close!

I used to always play on double cavern, and had the initial gut reaction you're having when island T17 was first introduced to me. But having played hundreds of island T17s over the last year or so I have to say I've definitely come around. I think it actually adds to the strategy because you have to consider so many more potential attack vectors and the maps generated usually result in more interesting jumps and chutes. As with any scheme that relies on random maps, the complexity of the match and strategy required is generally a result of the complexity and uniqueness of the map. That's why picking a good generated map and doodad placement is sort of an art form.

I don't really think it hurts the "integrity" of the scheme.. I actually think it bolsters it, showing that the same scheme can be played well on just about any map type. Deadcode and I have also played quite a few matches on other types of caverns and islands and it's almost always enjoyable.

If you haven't played much island T17, I would suggest trying it more before forming a strong opinion.

Unfortunately I can't.. If you paste the whole password in and submit immediately it should work.