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Messages - Albus

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271
TUS Discussion / Re: Tourneys/Cups - reported game canceled due to scheme problem noticed later?
« on: August 09, 2021, 12:46 PM »
Quote from: zuck on August 09, 2021, 12:16 PM
So let me get this straight: Albus and Mega`Adnan scheduled a cup match, Komito hosted it for them but zucked up the settings, so they had to play a rematch, which Mega`Adnan won. And since it's a legit victory for Adnan, why do they have to rematch again? I don't get it.

I realize it's painful for Albus to admit his defeat, but boy is it a deserved victory! Adnan did some incredible moves!

Mega-Adnan said he didn't mind the fact that he played with 7 worms in the first game. I didn't mind either. So, for us, it was fair game, and adding to the last result, the total is 3x2 for me. So I think a rematch would be interesting.

Despite all the komito reasons, I remain with my position. I don't think what happened to me should happen to anyone. We need put things in the balance and making a judgment of proportionality and reasonableness.

Is it worth canceling a game, for a mistake that wasn't caused by the players, and that didn't generate a feeling of injustice in any of the players? There will hardly be a situation like this in the future. I invite you to look for a similar situation throughout the history of cups and tournaments in TUS, where a game was played with one worm missing and nobody noticed it during 1 hour of play, only noticing it after the game was reported. In other words, this is a very peculiar situation that will possibly never happen again. So you want to make a big deal out of it? Why so much adherence to the rule if none of the players felt harmed by a mistake that was not caused by them and probably won't never happen again? There is no proportionality in this decision. Adopting this decision is being very attached to the rules, to the detriment of the player's well-being. Therefore, I maintain my starting position and suggestion that in similar situations in the future, the game should be maintained.


272
TUS Discussion / Re: Tourneys/Cups - reported game canceled due to scheme problem noticed later?
« on: August 09, 2021, 12:21 PM »
Quote from: zuck on August 09, 2021, 12:16 PM
So let me get this straight: Albus and Mega`Adnan scheduled a cup match, Komito hosted it for them but zucked up the settings, so they had to play a rematch, which Mega`Adnan won. And since it's a legit victory for Adnan, why do they have to rematch again? I don't get it.

I realize it's painful for Albus to admit his defeat, but boy is it a deserved victory! Adnan did some incredible moves!

"it's painful for Albus to admit his defeat" because of a stupid error (7 instead of 8 worms), that wasn't caused by me. I never had a problem admitting defeat.

273
TUS Discussion / Re: Tourneys/Cups - reported game canceled due to scheme problem noticed later?
« on: August 09, 2021, 12:12 PM »
Quote from: Komito on August 09, 2021, 11:50 AM
I don't, and won't write a specific way to make people comfortable.
(...)
Though i'm sure those who actually care enough, take the time to read, and those who don't, well that's their choice really.

I wouldn't go this way Komito. For example, I might like to read a writer in general, but I might not like an excerpt from his book where that writer was too wordy. I will read it the same way, but I would have preferred that he had said it differently. Because I care to read what you write, I made this suggestion. If I didn't mind, I wouldn't read or say anything. But let's forget about this offtopic matter.




274
TUS Discussion / Re: Tourneys/Cups - reported game canceled due to scheme problem noticed later?
« on: August 09, 2021, 11:43 AM »
Quote from: Komito on August 09, 2021, 11:11 AM
Quote from: Albus on August 09, 2021, 11:03 AM
Komito, please be more concise. You are very wordy my friend!

This is an odd request, I wouldn't ask you to change how you write, I believe people should express themselves in whatever way they are comfortable with.

I don't, and won't write a specific way to make people comfortable.

No, I didn't mean "how" you write, or your "style" of writing. Each person has their own unique way of writing. But never mind. This is not important.

275
Cups and Tournaments Games Comments / Re: Game #227946, reported by Albus
« on: August 09, 2021, 11:35 AM »
Quote from: Komito on August 09, 2021, 11:24 AM
What do we do if the replay hal provides is corrupt as well?

This would mean nobody has evidence of the other match, so how can we accept this? I guess we would just rely on the players to confirm?

Maybe the replay file in hal computer is fine. Let's wait for him. Very weird that, because first round replay is fine, but second corrupt.

276
TUS Discussion / Re: Tourneys/Cups - reported game canceled due to scheme problem noticed later?
« on: August 09, 2021, 11:13 AM »
Quote from: Mega`Adnan on August 09, 2021, 11:10 AM
I wouldn't have minded playing with 7 worms. But since the rules are same for everyone, that would create a conflict if we go on our rules.
But still, it wouldn't be nice if someone won the game, and then in the end we realize that host made a mistake then repeating the game, then opponent wins.
I can rematch again if Albus wants to. (Even the last game was awesome with incredible knocks and tense etc. Please don't delete that stream recording, Komito was like surprised in that. :D)

Thank you Mega-Adnan. As the total was 3x2 between us (2x0 for me in the first match, then 2x1 for you in the rematch), I would like to try one last time and eliminate the feeling of injustice that this story has left. Thank you for understanding.

277
TUS Discussion / Re: Tourneys/Cups - reported game canceled due to scheme problem noticed later?
« on: August 09, 2021, 11:03 AM »
Komito, please be more concise. You are very wordy my friend! I'm sure some people don't read everything you write, not because what you write is bad (you say interesting things), but because you're too wordy.

278
Cups and Tournaments Games Comments / Re: Game #227946, reported by Albus
« on: August 09, 2021, 10:35 AM »
Quote from: MonkeyIsland on August 09, 2021, 06:07 AM
Please also attach the second round. There was something wrong with the replay.

Here is also giving error. I can't open the replay. This never happened before. Let's ask Hal to send the replay through here.

279
TUS Discussion / Re: Tourneys/Cups - reported game canceled due to scheme problem noticed later?
« on: August 09, 2021, 10:07 AM »
Quote from: Dario on August 09, 2021, 04:05 AM
I don't think the game with 7 worms should be considered a game from this cup, because it wasn't played in accordance to the scheme settings. In this case, the scheme was tested and balanced for 8 worms, 1 less worms makes a huge difference, so a match with 7 worms can't count as a match for this cup. Yes, it isn't explicitly written, but in the scheme description and in every one of the past tournaments it was said that 8 is the number of worms. My mistake for not writing that down, many times some things seem so obvious that we don't even write down rules for some situations. I like the point about professionalism, and I think that if variations (intentional or not) are to be allowed, then it has to be explicitly said so in the cup description.

I also don't think the game should be played with 7 worms. But, as I said, it was an error caused directly by Komito, host of the game. Me and Mega-Adnan failed because we didn't saw the mistake, but it wasn't a mistake caused directly by us. Mega-Adnan and I were "forced" to repeat the game because of mistake by a third person. So I think we should be asked if we wanted to repeat the game or not. Yesterday I asked Mega-Adnan on discord if he thought it was unfair that he lost because he played with 7 worms, and he replied as follows:



Proportionality and reasonableness are needed in decisions. The game was played with one less worms. That breaks the rule, ok. However, Mega-Adnan didn't feel harmed by this. Submitting us to having to play again, for an error that was not caused by us, hurts proportionality. This caused me frustration, because I would have to try to win again and because of the feeling that my victory was useless.
If I was asked if I wanted to play again I would say: it depends. Mega Adnan thinks he lost because he had 7 worms instead of 8? If the answer was yes, I would play again. If the answer was no, I wouldn't want to play again, because was no harm to him.

Subjecting myself to the frustration of canceling my win, the mental fatigue of trying to win again, all because of a formality of one less worm, and a mistake that wasn't caused by me or Mega-Adnan? For me, this hurts any reasonableness. It's not caring about my well-being, and giving exaggerated value to a rule that was broken and that didn't harm my oponnent.

280
TUS Discussion / Re: Tourneys/Cups - reported game canceled due to scheme problem noticed later?
« on: August 09, 2021, 12:11 AM »
Quote from: Komito on August 08, 2021, 03:07 PM
Dario may wish to be more lenient in certain situations and i'd respect that, though we have discussed this specific scenario and Dario agrees about this specific situation:


Komito, I didn't quite understand the connection between Dario response and our case under discussion. In fact, "no variations are allowed". I agree with that, but this seems to be aimed at situations where players deliberately play a variation of the scheme, which, I repeat, is not logical to allow this to happen. On the other hand, in our presente case, we didn't deliberately play a variation of the scheme (7 instead of 8 worms). We didn't want this. You was the host and you forgot to put 8 worms, and everyone (players and stream viewers), for lack of attention, didn't notice it during the entire match. Only hours later, another player reported the problem.

281
Cups and Tournaments Games Comments / Re: Game #227946, reported by Albus
« on: August 08, 2021, 10:13 PM »
Quote from: Komito on August 08, 2021, 10:03 PM
Albus mentioned that he broke the special weapon rule, so he should lose that round.

I've came to check these replays however only one replay is here, the other one seems corrupt?

What happened to the other replay?

Corrupt? Weird. It was the first round. I attached here. See at 8:33.


282
TUS Discussion / Re: Tourneys/Cups - reported game canceled due to scheme problem noticed later?
« on: August 08, 2021, 09:32 PM »
Quote from: Komito on August 08, 2021, 09:13 PM

Quote from: Albus on August 08, 2021, 08:26 PM
Komito, there is the following rule in the cup we are talking about:

Each round you can choose only one type of special/team weapon to use (...) If in one round you use more than one type of special weapon, you lose the round. For example, you can use 2 cows on round 1 and 2 pigeons on round two, but you cannot use cows and pigeons on round 1

I won my second match against the player Hal. However, in one of the matches I used a second special weapon (aqua sheep), the special weapon didn't touch anything (I threw it off the map). If we are going to follow the rule radically, my defeat should have been automatic. Maybe you didn't see this happening because you didn't was in the host and didn't saw the replay yet. What would your decision be about that?

If this is true then yes, you would automatically lose that round.

The rule says:

"If you use more than one type of special weapon, you lose the round"

It does not say:

"If you use more than one type of special weapon, you lose the round, unless using the special weapon does not deal damage to your opponent or land, in which case it's fine".

I will need to check this game and if that actually happened that round will be your loss, however, this issue should be posted in the actual Cup page.

As I said, we can't act on things we do not know.


I think you are too extreme with the literalness of the rules. Each rule must be interpreted in the light of the concrete case. Have you ever heard the following phrase: "not the letter but the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life"? I heard that phrase regarding legal interpretation. The legislator, for example, when creating a law, he cannot foresee all the concrete situations that may arise. It is impossible for a rule to fairly cover every case that might exist. It is necessary, case by case, to verify the best solution (this is why judges exists too). I used the second special weapon in this game, but I threw it off the map, it didn't touch anything at all. I think it would be unfair make me lose this round for that (the opponent didn't even complain). Likewise, regarding my game against Adnan, I haven't seen him say that he thought it was unfair for us to play with 7 worms. Why not hear Adnan's opinion about it? If neither he nor I thought it was unfair to repeat a game because of a mistake you made, why "force" us to repeat the game for an error that we did not directly cause?

PS: I attached the round against hal, where at 8:33 I used the second special weapon, against the rules. The aqua sheep didn't touch anything in the map, but if you're going to strictly follow the rules, you should nullify this game. However, Hal didn't mind.

283
TUS Discussion / Re: Tourneys/Cups - reported game canceled due to scheme problem noticed later?
« on: August 08, 2021, 09:17 PM »
Quote from: donnie on August 08, 2021, 09:10 PM
there's no other reason to selfishly choose to replay the matches as it caused no harm, no advantages to the players.

In fact, I didn't see Adnan say if he wanted to rematch the game. We play because you determined. If he says he doesn't thought it was unfair play with 7 worms, would you change your decision? In other words, if neither he nor I thought this was unfair, why make us repeat a game for an error that we didn't cause?

284
TUS Discussion / Re: Tourneys/Cups - reported game canceled due to scheme problem noticed later?
« on: August 08, 2021, 08:26 PM »
Komito, there is the following rule in the cup we are talking about:

"Each round you can choose only one type of special/team weapon to use (...) If in one round you use more than one type of special weapon, you lose the round."

I won my second match in group stage against the player Hal. However, in one of the matches I used a second special weapon (aqua sheep), the special weapon didn't touch anything (I threw it off the map). If we are going to follow the rule radically, my defeat should have been automatic. Maybe you didn't see this happening because you didn't was in the host and didn't saw the replay yet. What would your decision be about that?


285
TUS Discussion / Re: Tourneys/Cups - reported game canceled due to scheme problem noticed later?
« on: August 08, 2021, 07:16 PM »
Quote from: TheMadCharles on August 08, 2021, 06:12 PM
btw, almost nobody checks the exact scheme options to the dot ever, how could Albus possibly spot that something was wrong?

There is only one situation where I agree that the game must be void even after being reported, and it would be this: my opponent hosts the game using a scheme with wrong settings (eg, wrong SD time, wrong retreat time etc.). In this situation, if I lose the game and notice this after the game, I could ask for the game to be canceled. However, if I win the match, I might not want to cancel the game, otherwise I would be giving the one who caused the mistake (intentionally or unintentionally) an opportunity to have a second chance to beat me. But, taking into account the rule that Komito wants to apply, this player, who caused the error, would have a second chance to beat me because of an error I did not caused.

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