Quote from: Gabriel on September 09, 2021, 07:07 PM
it is kind of sad to see that active players no longer want to engage on archaic methods (such as memory, or whatever).

I admire those who have a good memory like you for these things. But I, and many other players I know (veteran and also very good players), always made notes of what the enemy used etc. I don't understand why this is sad. The game is the same. The fun is the same. It makes no difference to me whether the person uses memory or writes down information on paper, software, app etc.

Quote from: Gabriel on September 09, 2021, 07:07 PM
If the majority of the playerbase wants to make the game easier, we should let them be, but as they have the right to do so, others should be allowed to know and discriminate.

It's not about making the game easier, in my opinion. Nothing is going to change. There will only be a transfer of something that was done on paper etc., to be an in-game option.

I actually think the game will be more challenging. I guarantee one thing: if my opponents in the league always know the order of my team and the utilities I use, I'm sure the match against them will be more challenging.

Quote from: Komito on September 09, 2021, 12:46 PM
so i'm voicing my concern in the place where it would have the biggest consequences from my perspective.

Perhaps it would be better to focus your energies on the community having an anti-cheat system that detects private modules etc. Worrying about these two modules (which will increase people's QoL) won't change anything. Whoever wants to use it will use it. Not everyone is like nizikawa who listens to people's opinions before creating modules.

Quote from: Komito on September 09, 2021, 12:27 PM
you didn't know that being hard to please or satisfy was another definition of the word 'difficult'.

Wouldn't need a context for this meaning? In the dictionaries I consulted I did not find this meaning.

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/difficulty?q=difficulty

Quote from: Komito on September 09, 2021, 12:08 PM

You just said it isn't difficult at all, you don't need a module. Difficult also means hard to please or satisfy.

So are you lying, or just uneducated?

I'm using it in the first sense (1).

You gave me only two options: liar or uneducated. I'm curious... what was your conclusion?

Quote from: Komito on September 09, 2021, 12:08 PM
Difficult also means hard to please or satisfy.

No. Difficult is something I'll have trouble executing (which is not the case with taking notes on what the opponent used).

Difficult to satisfy is something just... unpleasant?

Quote from: Komito on September 09, 2021, 12:05 PM
If there is absolutely no difficulty, why do you need a module?

Pffffft!

Because, like I said multiple times, it's boring and takes my immersion out of the game.

Quote from: Komito on September 09, 2021, 11:56 AM
I don't want them to fail any more than I don't want to fail, however failure is part of the learning process, we learn and adapt through our mistakes it is what makes us better if we care enough. You don't judge a man by how hard he falls, it's how well he picks himself back up.

It's not about failing. There is no difficulty in taking notes on what opponent uses. It doesn't require skill for that, just a pen and a paper, software, app etc. Here we show several ways to track enemy utility usage and enemy team order.

The point is that these are methods that take our immersion out of the game, and if the module brought that information, the game would be more fun and challenging, and we could just focus on the game itself.

Anyway, I would like to hear people's opinion on this topic: https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-ARMAgeddon/private-module-33565/msg281013/?topicseen#new

If figuring out the order of the enemy team and tracking what the opponent used is not difficult, then I assume that a private module for this cannot be considered cheating, correct? So can these people make modules like this? If not, who's going to analyze game by game to see if anyone used a private module?

Komito, why not leave it up to the players?

If any opponent of mine, from any league, lets me use a module like that, what's the problem? It's his choice.

Do you really want to win knowing you only won because your opponent doesn't like or forgot to write down what you used? If I know that my opponent can counter my misuse of utilities (the module will show this information), it will definitely be a much more difficult and challenging game for me. I'd rather win a game this way than win because someone forgot or finds it boring to take notes with pen and paper etc.

Quote from: donnie on September 09, 2021, 11:18 AM
I will finish by saying that I want to win on my merits, my smart strategy etc and not because I mishandled the use of ropes and my opponent forgot to write it down or missed it while writing another weapon I just used. If I mishandled, I should face all the consequences and vice versa.

Quote from: donnie on September 09, 2021, 08:09 AM
I'd rather use Google Keep as I use it for many other purposes, you can make one of those checklists that is much more intuitive. In whatsapp you can risk missclick and lose all your markings.

Another idea that we can use while people create obstacles:



This is the app streamers use to keep track of weapons used by each team. You can download it at https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/display-weapons-on-intermediate-stream-32128

You download a software to make this window stay "always on top" and click on the weapon icon when the oponnent uses it.

The downside is that it pollutes the game's interface a bit.

Quote from: donnie on September 09, 2021, 10:03 AM
My thoughts are that those who are against it are afraid that they could no longer rely on the possibility of human error from their opponents (when they forget to write or lack of attention of weapons used) to get some sort of advantage over them.

I lost count of the times I lost a game because I didn't write down what the opponent used. I find it very boring and that's why I only do this in most important games. I wanted to be able to focus only on the game screen and increase my immersion in the game, without having to use external resources.

A lot of discussion is going on around wkWormOrder and the idea of a module that would work as a weapon usage tracker. You can see the details at:

https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/wkwormorder-v-1-0-1-released-33536/

https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon-promotion-project/(module-idea)-weapon-usage-tracker-33562/

WkWormOrder, already published, allows you to see the sequence of YOUR team. However, there are people who support the idea that this module also allows you to see the sequence of the enemy team, something that is generating greater controversy.

The other idea, would be a module to allow you to see what weapons the enemy used.

I do not want to go into the merits of the discussion here, as this is being discussed in these topics.

There is a possible reality in this scenario: since people are facing obstacles to play the game, publicly, in the way they find most pleasurable (which they don't think is wrong and would just make the game more enjoyable), we should consider the possibility of these people making private modules etc. If they do not have technical knowledge, they can also hiring someone to do it.

But the problem is that, even if someone does it, although I don't consider it cheating¹ or that they will have a relevant advantage against me, I wouldn't want to play against someone who has access to things like that while I don't. As a competitive player, I think I would be entitled to know if anyone is using something like that.

So, what can people like me (who play competitively and don't want to be in that situation) do in this situation?

---

¹ I don't consider cheating because the person just found out a way to access the same information in an even easier way than the existing ones (in the topics mentioned, several practical methods of getting the order of the enemy team and tracking the weapons usage were listed). That person would be having access to the same information that other people have access only with the difference of being something more practical.

Some want the module, while others don't. The debate will go on indefinitely, as both sides see the game from different perspectives. Who decides this impasse?

Quote from: ruddie on September 08, 2021, 05:23 PM
I can already extract turn order from replay files by means of a simple command. And since it's already possible, then how about adding the possibility to show opponent's turn order? Nice module by the way!

Here it is (Linux only):

Code Select Expand

cd ~/WA/User/Games && strings "$(ls -Art | tail -n 1)" | tr "\n" " " | xclip -sel c

What it does is it changes directory to Games, finds the most recent file, extracts strings from it, and copies them in the clipboard.

See how easy it is to obtain such information? No wormkit modules or programming skills required. It can even be assigned to a keyboard shortcut for convenience.

Yeah... I hope people see this and realize that a module to see the opponent's team sequence will just make legitimate and universal something that can already be done "easily" by some people. We're not talking about something like the following: "someone found a way to see what's inside the crates, so let's be democratic and make this cheat universal." In cases like that we need to find a way to detect this and ban this player. In my opinion (sorry for being repetitive here), being able to see the enemy team order will benefit streams and players. Games will become more strategic!

Quote from: Echiko on September 07, 2021, 09:43 PM
I remind you that the deadline is set to 11th September, 2021 (people have still time up to midnight, without exceeding the date of course).
If at 11th September VITOS-SVOBODA, who has received also TUS private messages, doesn't show up with his games, and there is someone who is interested in taking his place, he can contact me on discord/tus/snooper, or make a comment here.

Hi! I wanna join!