Quote from: ruddie on September 08, 2021, 05:37 PM
Alternative idea: add an extra textbox somewhere in game chat where we could type this stuff.

Yes. That would be nice too. That way I could write what the opponent used in the game etc., and still be able to use the chat to talk.

Quote from: ruddie on September 08, 2021, 05:22 PM
Writing down used weapons and utilities on a piece of paper is bad for the environment. Think about how much paper was wasted during those 22 years!

Joking aside, I'd really like to use this module, so that I will be finally able to chat with a team mate in 2v2 games.

When I'm playing an important game, I do this: on whatsapp, I have a list of weapons. I just hold the name of the weapon used for 1 second to highlight it and mark it as used. I also can copy there the order of the enemy team (which I can get between rounds - some people know how to get it during the round, but I don't know). In other words, the modules just makes possible to see inside the game what can be done outside the game and do not require any skills.

Anyway, I believe that the idea of this module and wkWormorder will only make public something that is already done discreetly by some players.

PS: I know this can be considered lame for some people. But I don't have such a good memory, so I do it. I don't consider myself worse than anyone in the game because of that per se. Worms is not a memory game.

Quote from: Dario on September 08, 2021, 04:15 PM
In intermediate I've won and lost so many rounds because of human mistakes when tracking weapons/utilities usage. So yes, such a module would definitely erase one skill that many times gives the more invested player an edge. But if that module is going to be written, then I guess it's better if everyone has access to it.

I think your concern has more to do with the module tracking automatically, right?

If it's done manually by the player, it wouldn't be a problem for you, right? The module would just transfer what some already do on smartphone, paper etc and make this possible within the game. Cgar's suggestion included this as well: "Something like having the weapons panel have tabs for each player, such as the ones that show in replays with the colors of the teams. clicking the teams color would change the weapons panel to a kind of notepad for that team, prefilled at the match start with weapons from the scheme, which you could then click to decrement when you notice that they have used something".

Quote from: cgar on September 08, 2021, 03:40 PM
@Komito You are a masochist, JuSt AdMiT iT.

To reach his level at BnG, I assume he is at least a little bit
EDIT: but then the correct term would be sadomasiquite? Never mind.

Komito, coincidentally, I'm supporting things you don't like. I'm sorry for encouraging things that for you are bad for the game. But, I place a high value on things that make the gaming experience more enjoyable, as long as the line separating it from cheat is not crossed.

Quote from: Komito on September 08, 2021, 02:56 PM
Having to actually put the effort in to write it down, and do it correctly, doing it as fast as possible when players tab through their worms at 100mph like Dario is actually a skill.

Depending on the method chosen, there is almost no effort involved. I, for example, use a messaging app to keep track of what the opponent used. And I don't even have to type anything. I only need to hold the word for 1 second and it will be marked, indicating that the opponent used a certain utility. In fact, the idea of cgar, in theory, would give me a little more work than what I do at the moment (it would take a few more seconds and more clicks). However I prefer his idea as it would allow me to be more immersed in the game environment.

Quote from: Komito on September 08, 2021, 02:40 PM
That is definitely going too far for competitive games.

Seriously guys c'mon, stop trying to make things too easy for everyone, one of the reason this game is so good is because it has a really high learning curve!

You mean the automatic counting? Perhaps yes. I think it can make things easier. But manual counting, I see no problem. Many players already do this. The only difference is that some do it on paper, others use the chat window (which makes difficult to use chat for something else) etc. The idea of cgar would just be to allow us to do this in-game, and remove the need for many to do this outside of the game. That way we can keep 100% of our attention just on the game screen, and we can get more immersed in it.

Quote from: Komito on September 08, 2021, 02:40 PM
There must be a reason they don't include stuff like this in ANY of the games that I know of, please correct me if i'm wrong.

I played for quite some time, competitively, a very famous MOBA. There was the option for you to PING to create a reminder when the player used a spell.

I would find this idea sensational. It would make my gaming experience much more enjoyable. I usually take notes of what the enemy uses on paper or smartphone. Having this option integrated into the game would be awesome!

The idea of switching between panels and click to decrement when you notice that they have used something is very good. The other option, which is the game to automatically count, although I'm not against it, I think there are people who might consider that this will make the game "easier".

I fully support the idea, whether the control of what is used by the enemy is done by me manually, or is something automatic.

Quote from: FoxHound on September 06, 2021, 03:28 PM
The idea is interesting, I support it, but I don't know the technical aspects around it. Seems complicated.

Yes, it does look complicated. But these guys are awesome. After having seen the TA module, I no longer doubt anything.

Quote from: FoxHound on September 06, 2021, 03:28 PM
I also have another idea of a module that I believe would be simple to implement: a /arrows command (or maybe a scheme option) but for worms, not crates. The name could be wkWormFinder or something like this.

It would be useful to find enemy worms in very big maps.

I liked the idea! Very interesting and useful, especially, as you said, on big maps.

A while ago I saw a player suggest the idea of fast forwarding the turn. In intermediate, for example, it's not uncommon to see players complaining about very long matches and multiple 45-second turns just to do something obvious or just do nothing. But, sometimes, waiting for SD is the only alternative for victory.

I found this idea interesting not only for intermediate, but for other schemes such as T17, elite etc.

In addition of making the game less boring for players and stream viewers, I think there is also the tactical aspect. In intermediate, for example, my strategy might be to use the 45 seconds to wait for the SD, but I already have in mind what to do in the next turns. However, the 45 seconds can be extra time for my opponent to think, something I would rather not give him, so I would use the fast forward option.

I don't know if it would be possible to implement this through a module. The trigger could be use "skip turn" for more than 2 seconds (to avoid accidentally fast forward) and accelerated time could be left as "extra time" in order to avoid the risk of fast foward too much and miss the turn.

Quote from: nizikawa on September 06, 2021, 10:28 AM
The replay format is publicly documented on Worms Knowledge Base and does not contain any data regarding the utilized WormKit modules or other technical aspects of runtime environment. So the proposed idea cannot be policed with the current stock version of WA.
However, I have an idea and technical knowledge how to implement a wormkit module that checks the integrity of WA's virtual memory space that could be used in online games to ensure that no modifications to .exe file or private wormkit modules are used. The integrity could be automatically verified by all parties participating in the match and also embedded in custom section of .WAgame replay and submitted replays could be automatically verified by TUS. This would prevent or at least significantly hamper cheating in league games.

Wow. That would be awesome! So, if anyone is using some private module to have laser sight, crate spy, remove water etc., we could know.

Quote from: Komito on September 04, 2021, 07:58 PM
As I said earlier, either everyone does it, or nobody does it.

For me, the ideal would be to implement a behavior identical to /arrows. The person would know you're using it. Surely there are people who wouldn't need or want to use it, then, there would be no way to make it mandatory for everyone.

Quote from: Komito on September 04, 2021, 07:58 PM
Just make everyone use the same team then?

Not necessarily. As the current module already does, it would just add a number, before the name, indicating the order of the team.

---

I can't speak for others, but in intermediate I feel that I have more chances of winning and I play more strategically when I play thinking about the sequence of the opponent's team. The point is that there are people who know much more practical methods of getting it and others who do it in a more laborious way. Whoever can get it easier and faster, in my opinion, has a certain advantage. A module that shows the sequence of both teams and behaves like /arrows, will only legitimize and make explicit something that is already done by many (more discreetly) and will increase the level of playing in certain schemes in my opinion. Additionally it will be something positive for the streams.

Quote from: Komito on September 04, 2021, 07:07 PM
As a streamer, I won't stream any matches knowing someone is doing that stuff.

As far as i'm concerned, it degrades skill and the mere fact some people think it's ok is concerning.

I want to help encourage and support a professional, disciplined environment which encourages skill at the highest level, not the opposite.

I think the opposite. Regarding my favorite scheme, intermediate, I think that if the order of teams were explicit it would increase the level of the game. People would feel more stimulated to observe the opponent team's sequence and think about the next turns. People can already do this. However, you need to write** the order of the opponent's team somewhere beforehand, during the game or between rounds. I think letting people get rid of this "obligation" would increase their focus only on the game, which would be beneficial. In addition, there is the disadvantage for those people who do not know "easier methods" to know the order of the enemy team's, which maybe some of these people would use if they knew how to do it.

** I admire people who have excellent memory and don't need to write down the order of the opponent's team, the utilities used etc, but not everyone has this ability, and I don't think certain schemes should involve that kind of talent for memorizing things. I know awesome players who make notes about things on the game (utilites used etc.). I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in who is better to memorize things. I want to see creative moves, interesting tactics etc. I would prefer a rule where both players make the team sequence available to streamers and opponents.

Quote from: cgar on September 04, 2021, 05:41 PM
Just quickly tested there. Started a cpu only game and printed the replay file out while they were running in the background. Got this:

Code Select Expand

CPU 5ZeplinFluteStreptoFrankTeabag      Mr Meeker
Rusty NailJoker
               thrombosis1New Text DocumentCPU 4WarpedJarvisSandraHarryCleetusFreemanBirianiBenney

Didn't even need to format it lol

That's why I think players should stop worrying about trying to hide the team sequence (creating teams with gibberish worm names or creating new teams to try to confuse the opponent). See how easy it is to get the enemy order!? Worms is not, in essence, a memory game. Just as many write down the use of utilities (and nobody is a worse player for that), others write down the order of the enemy team. And there's nothing that can stop it. A module that shows the sequence of the enemy too (which is not the case with the module in question made by nizikawa, which only shows the order of your team) will only make legitimate something that already occurs (at least for those who know this possibility - being a disadvantage for those who don't know how to do this) and will make life easier for streamers.

I've already looked at previous games from a player to know his team order. It is very useful to know, in some schemes, the first worms of the enemy team (to make piles, force the use of ws etc.). And even if someone doesn't write down the enemy sequence or discover in some another way, they end up memorizing the team of people who don't change the team, like me and many people. Knowing the sequence of the enemy team, in my opinion, makes even the game more strategic and less random (something positive for certain schemes).