xD

u both rocked this challenge.  not easy.. gj both 

Quote from: Pincopallino on February 06, 2011, 02:46 PM
Hi, maybe right section.
Pls see this game and say me if i need to report or no...ty
[attachment=1]

It does look like he gave up and quit -> which would mean you should report, but there are still questions.  Why did he say join me?  Was this his pick, and that's why he wanted to quit and host his own map? -> because it looked like he hated the map.  If this shopper game was only the 1st game, then where is the 2nd game on TUS?  I don't see one.

Please give more details of the situation.

Looks like the games have been deleted, and I did notice KLECAMP reading Dennis' comment directing him here from https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-53000/  so hopefully everyone understands what happened.

this thread is a double post. refer to the main complaint thread here: https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/complaints/cheaterteam-blak-again/

I wonder how almog was able to report the same replay twice.. in any case, you are correct.  game# 54237 looks to be the exact same as game# 54230 at https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-54230/ which was reported 22 minutes before almog reported the roper.  I'm guessing almog had forgotten that he reported the hysteria before playing the 2nd game?

anyway, game# 54237 deleted.

komo, at least read MonkeyIsland's first post and understand that this discussion is going exactly how he wanted it to.. so try not to casually throw words around like "just f@#!ing pick one and test it." he wants this to continue until 23th February. no one is in a hurry here except you it seems. relax ;x

here's what he said:

Quote from: MonkeyIsland on January 31, 2011, 05:27 PM
There are 29 days left for the current classic/TEL leagues to finish and I'm trying to run the new leagues system straight after that. So, I'm putting every idea on the table.

I'll accept league plans till 23th February so that in the next remaining days I have time to code the ideas.

ray, I understand if HHC's big text, and then reading this whole thread looks like too much effort, but this isn't just about something unimportant. it's about the most important part of how the league runs. so if you do feel like you would want to have your opinion heard on such an important topic, I encourage you to put however much effort it takes to read this whole conversation. otherwise, if you really do just trust others to make the best decision, then you can just sit back, np 

komo, this conversation here is actually coming along well, and most everyone has posted really good opinions. you shouldn't just say 'there is no point in even doing this discussion' and that's it is because 'NO ONE will ever agree to some new system.' if that's the case, then what is the point in doing ANYTHING where not everyone agrees? this discussion exists to peacefully exchange ideas so that hopefully the best possible solution for the league gets used. no one here is strictly looking for failures in other people's ideas just to only prove that their idea is the best.. -> what's happening is we are looking for all possible pro's and con's so that the most informed decision can be made. cheers ;p

"oh look! I could draw this game, and try for a better chance to win round 2!  but nahhh, I really shouldn't and just accept defeat" 

Quote from: Mablak on February 04, 2011, 12:04 PM
It seems like any form of 'properly distributing points' will keep things very close to the way they currently are on TUS. Which has the noticeable problem of discouraging high level players from playing once they have a high overall rating, because it necessarily gives them the seasonal disadvantage of getting much fewer points from most players. And we just don't have enough high level players for them to stick to playing amongst themselves as MI intended.

you have it wrong -> having a high overall rating doesn't hurt your own seasonal performance. you're confusing this way with how TUS currently is.. and that's the important difference. there is no 'seasonal disadvantage of getting fewer points from most players' -> you start at 1000 season rating like everyone else and gain/lose points according to other people's overall rating.  so no, you don't have to only stick to playing amongst other high level players -> you're even free to play 'noobs' if you want since losing won't hurt your seasonal rating as much compared to overall rating now and winning gets you more points compared to overall rating now.

Quote from: Mablak on February 04, 2011, 12:04 PM
The biggest flaw I can think of in properly distributing points based on skill level is the very fact that people start with the same number of points in a season. The idea of properly distributing points is dependent on good players already having points; if they don't, then although we know them and recognize their skill level, their skill is not accurately represented by the system. The main reason the system treats a pro player as it does is because it expects them to have excess points, and if they don't, then the exchange formula is rather... pointless, pun intended.

huh?  I fail to see the connection between the inability to properly distribute points based on skill level and the fact that people start with the same number of seasonal points in a season.  their skill is accurately represented by the system with their underlying overall rating ->  and their seasonal skill is accurately represented by their seasonal rating. your last sentence about 'excess points' didn't make any sense to me, so you can elaborate on that more if it's important.

Quote from: Mablak on February 04, 2011, 12:04 PM
Even if TUS was tweaked to allow such players to gain a bit more than they do now and not be at such a disadvantage, it would still be too much of a hindrance for people like me, who would prefer to make it as high up as possible. If the most competitive players are being denied the chance to compete to their best potential, it just kills activity.

again I fail to see how you're hindered with a high overall rating.. when it's other people's overall ratings that affect your seasonal rating going up and down.

Quote from: Mablak on February 04, 2011, 09:12 AM
But it's fairly redundant to take steps to make the seasonal ratings approximate the overall ratings, at a certain point they just become the overall ratings again. If you're looking for long-term accuracy, you might as well just look at the overall ratings. And I think incorporating any historical element would be harmful to activity, because certain people will start with advantages and disadvantages, which makes the prospect of a new season seem unappealing, since the whole concept is about getting a fresh start.

the point of the system isn't to predict how seasons will end with overall ratings.. but to properly distribute points according to skill level -> the rest is up to you.  every new season still starts fresh, and there's nothing unappealing about getting rewarded the appropriate amount of points. you say certain people will start with advantages and disadvantages?  care to explain what they are?

Quote from: Mablak on February 04, 2011, 09:12 AM
And your concern about people just playing a few games is valid, but because it's so few games, I don't think it can compromise the system greatly. The system would still be highly balanced if the majority of active pros play at least say, 15 or so games. In any case, I don't feel like the best players typically go a season with only a few games; when they know they can at least do the bare minimum to make it into playoffs, they often will, at least that's been the case in NNNL.

compromising the system greatly or not, I felt it was worth mentioning because it does bring at least some level of imbalance to the system. perhaps even comparable to the imbalance in the other system that comes from when a player's true skill isn't yet reflected in their overall rating. -> though that's a problem that time and more games can fix.

Quote from: Mablak on February 04, 2011, 06:56 AM
3. Avoiding is reduced. If you're not keen on playing a decent player because you know they're much better than their rating shows, you no longer have to be afraid of losing too many points. Standings are adjusted for you as new games are reported, giving you more points if someone you previously beat starts beating tons of players.

4. Less possible noob bashing. Franz pointed out that by simply playing a noob earlier in the season before other people do (before their points go down), you squeeze more points out of them than you deserve. Once again, standings would be adjusted as time goes on, and an early victory against a noob wouldn't give you many points in the end.

after thinking about this aspect more... all of it sounds well and good.. but this assumes that the 'good late joiners' and 'noobs' will actually play enough games to accurately reflect their skill level -> thus accurately affecting your own ranking. the problem is that it's very common for players to play just a few games in a season.. so without that historical element (overall rating) to give you proper benefit for beating a 'good late joiner' or 'noob' you still have imbalance in the system.

Quote from: MonkeyIsland on January 31, 2011, 05:27 PM
If you're suggesting a new plan make sure to think about what would you do about the current players stats.

The best idea or combination of the ideas will start from new season.
This is HHC's plan, please read it (long text, but won't bore you)

regarding what to do about the current players stats -> I see HHC's plan working/transitioning just fine with the same overall ratings that everyone has worked hard to achieve. but if a complete reset is something many people want, I could understand that too.  sounds like a good question that might want to be asked/polled depending which system is eventually chosen.

cue got robbed ;p  i voted for yeh

Quote from: HHC on February 02, 2011, 10:57 AM
@Franz: can you explain to me why high overall rankings have a benefit in the season rankings in my system? I don't think that's the case to be honest. Random receives the same amount of points for beating Noob than say HHC (I have an overall rank of 1030 or something). Likewise, I lose as much points as Random does if I lose.
Like I said, the overall rating is merely used to determine your opponents strength. It has no influence on one's own stats.

Hmm, yeah you are right.. I had it mixed up in my head just a bit.  The only real benefit of having a high overall ranking at the start of a new season.. is that other high rated players will want to play with you.. so it's kind of an indirect benefit that you attract those other high overall rated players -> giving you a nice boost if winning vs them.  anyway, I guess this isn't all that bad actually.. since you should want to play other high rated players anyway.
ok yea, I think I'm liking HHC's plan more now ;p

though Mablak explained to me the benefits of NNN's system, and it's very nice also. he strictly believes that 'the order in which games are played in a season' should not matter at all. this way, any good players joining a season late would not have to be avoided by higher ranked players ->  because as this good player climbs the ranks, all his early games that hurt a high ranked player wouldn't hurt as much anymore. I don't know how the system could be coded though or how easily it could be implemented. someone else should voice all this if they can.  if it's not a realistic solution though, I would feel just fine with the HHC way.

xD

hope you notice my nicer supersheeps recently ;p