Quote from: Senator on December 21, 2015, 05:26 PM

Quote from: Komito on December 20, 2015, 03:59 PM
Senator, many of those players can play both schemes, they just pick the ones they enjoy most and are better at, doesn't mean they aren't good enough to win them.

Yep, Lukz is a great allrounder but he still lost rope schemes 0-2 to dibz in that final. Therefore Lukz only proved he was better in defaults. You say he deserved the win because he collected more points during the season. I say u shouldn't put that much weight on the seasonal rating because people can game the system to get higher rating..

Bo7 would be better in terms of finding the best allrounder. Even with Bo7 u could win by 4 default schemes but u should show more diverse skills nonetheless.

Actually, the system could be conditional Bo5/Bo7
- If u lead 3-0 or 3-1, the series is over (Bo5)
- If u lead 3-2 and u have wins in both rope & default, the series is over (Bo5)
- If u lead 3-2 and u have wins only in rope or default, the series becomes Bo7

Most PO series would remain as Bo5. Bo7 would come into play only when one side dominates in rope schemes and the other side in default schemes.

I like your line of thought but this idea as it is currently constructed isn't practical.

Senator, Lukz is good enough to beat dibz at roping schemes though, just like I can lose Bng...

Quote from: Komito on December 18, 2015, 05:51 PM
But to be completely honest, the players of Worms Armageddon are so diversified in their preferences Leagues will never completely satisfy anyone.

PERIOD      ;d

WACL: "Each of the three games played will be, one rope, one bng and one default. No exceptions. Any clan playing 2 ropes, etc., loses."
WL: "A playoffs match consists of 3 games: one rope, one bng and one pro/default."
XTC:
"The playoffs will be best of five games out of the following group of schemes.
Only 2 Rope games From ( Roper, TTRR, WXW, Shopper )
Only 2 Default games From ( Elite, Pro and Team17 )
Only 1 BnG game"

TUS: 3 ropes (TTRR, WxW, Roper) or 3 defaults (Elite, Team17, Hysteria) is fine

Fix it and force people to learn BnG!

So i always need to be in a clan which has at least two active bng players

That isn't entirely clear.

Where does Shopper come into it?

it should be

- rope rr wxw
- elite intermediate
- team17 shopper
- bng hysteria

free picks, maximun of 2 per class and much better if you remove hysteria altogether

Quote from: Aerox on January 18, 2017, 07:29 PM
- rope rr wxw
- elite intermediate
- team17 shopper
- bng hysteria

free picks, maximun of 2 per class and much better if you remove hysteria altogether

You could still pick Elite+Intermediate+Team17 (Intermediate isn't in Classic league ) or Elite+Team17+Hysteria, though. Not much roping/bng needed (just one lucky shot in Hysteria). I can also see Shopper being abused by ropers (cave maps).

I like the idea of XTC league's even if the scheme classification isn't perfect...

- One player can pick only two from TTRR, WxW, Roper, Shopper
- One player can pick only two from Elite, Team17, Hysteria
- One of the five picks must be BnG

Examples

1. TTRR
2. Elite
3. WxW
4. Team17
5. BnG (can't pick anything else)

1. TTRR
2. BnG
3. WxW
4. Hysteria
5. Elite/Team17 (can't pick Roper or Shopper)

1. Elite
2. TTRR
3. BnG
4. WxW
5. Roper/Shopper/Team17/Hysteria

Usually a complete PO series would consist of 2 ropes, 2 defaults and BnG. Shopper would occasionally replace one of ropes/defaults.

What is the aim of these playoffs?
To see who the best is after a season?

The problem here is that we often try and split schemes up into "default" and "roping" categories.
Both those categories have more skill and more luck based schemes.

We could categorise them as follows:
Skill: Elite/TTRR/BnG/WxW
Luck: T17/Shopper/Roper/Hysteria

Currently as it is bo5 you could say not allow more than 2 schemes in luck category (or 1!).

The combination of Roper/T17/Shopper cannot seriously determine who is better...

imho there should be 5 classes
default: inter and elite
roping: roper and warmer horse
shooting: bng and hyst
racing: rope race and battle race
collecting cr8s: shoppa and t17
wxw isnt part of the list cuz it's the silliest scheme ever XD

About map whoring, I have a much simpler solution than a something like dS map picker.

Hostingbuddy is integrated with TUS. Which means you can load TUS league schemes, load a TUS map and load a random map from a TUS map pack. Just like dS did to Darts, we can create a map pack with league approved maps for x scheme. For TTRR should be easy, just toss any playable map. For Roper you can exclude crate luck maps(ones too complex that it's impossible to rope any spot on a single turn) for WxW you can exclude  too easy maps that will feel like Shopper, for Shopper you can put maps with at least few hides etc. Anyway I think you got the picture. This way you can eliminate map whoring altogether and people cannot host can host these schemes via HB.(it's 2017 tho, learn how to host by yourself already)

Quote from: Triad on January 19, 2017, 11:34 AMFor Roper you can exclude crate luck maps(ones too complex that it's impossible to rope any spot on a single turn)

and how you gonna calculate that... ?

I don't see how is all that stuff going to help, it'd just reduce the number of maps available, which is no good

Quote from: Ryan on January 19, 2017, 08:10 AM
The combination of Roper Hysteria/T17/Shopper cannot seriously determine who is better...

Fixed

Yeah imo the scheme list should look like this (Shopper removed)

TTRR
Roper / WxW
BnG
Elite
Team17 / Hysteria (they can be called "default" schemes, that's it)

2 classes for ropes, 2 classes for defaults and 1 class for BnG. Top tier schemes would have their own class.

You could pick only one of Roper/WxW and one of Team17/Hysteria in playoffs (the opponent could still pick the other). This would be reflected in season standings, too. Playing both Team17 and Hysteria or both Roper and WxW wouldn't benefit. You would gain points for overall season standings based on shared rating of T17/Hysteria but lose points based on separate ratings of T17 & Hysteria. I mean if you have collected 600 points from T17 and then play your first Hysteria game and lose, you lose points based on your seasonal Hysteria rating (1000). If you win, you gain different points for overall season rating (based on shared rating of 1600) and for Hysteria season rating (based on Hysteria rating of 1000). This way players who are good at rope+elite+bng would be rewarded. Currently you can replace the lack of rope/elite/bng skills with the other schemes because no one really plays all 8 schemes equally. As a result one player gains the same points from TTRR, Elite and BnG as the other from Shopper, Team17 and Hysteria.

The point is that these questions where never asked and things were changed either way.

Back in the day it was roper, elite and bng because everything else either didn't exist or was considered newbish.

Time proved many things, for one, that shopper and wxw can be fair and take skill if schemes/maps are picked with thought. Then came hysteria and there was another layer of decision imposed by tus: popularity. Schemes were included in playoffs based on amount of games played and populism.

This constant mixing of criteria made things confusing. To begin with we should first define what criteria should be used to determine the best player in the league. If it's all around skill, in that case, what is an all arounder? if I can BR and Shopper but can't RR or rope, am I proper all arounder because I can race and play a scheme that involves a rope? I could be a terrible "roper" still.

What we have done though, is through the history of leagues, first, change things just for the sake of being different from who came before, and secondly, fix holes as we saw them without asking the correct questions that are still to be answered like the ones above.

The fairest solution would be to make it bo7, and have all schemes played.

Quote from: Aerox on January 19, 2017, 12:56 PM
To begin with we should first define what criteria should be used to determine the best player in the league.

It's simple. The league should be about who is the best in the "skill" schemes as categorized by Ryan (+Roper as an alternative to WxW). I'm sure most top players agree with Ryan's categorization. T17, Shopper and Hysteria are considered "newbish". Just need another non-rope scheme to have enough schemes for Bo5 and to keep the original idea of roper, elite and bng. Intermediate can't be played Bo1 so need to resort to Team17/Hysteria.