Quote from: Senator on January 20, 2017, 09:18 AM

Quote from: Aerox on January 19, 2017, 12:56 PM
To begin with we should first define what criteria should be used to determine the best player in the league.

It's simple. The league should be about who is the best in the "skill" schemes as categorized by Ryan (+Roper as an alternative to WxW). I'm sure most top players agree with Ryan's categorization. T17, Shopper and Hysteria are considered "newbish". Just need another non-rope scheme to have enough schemes for Bo5 and to keep the original idea of roper, elite and bng. Intermediate can't be played Bo1 so need to resort to Team17/Hysteria.

i agree that inter doesnt fit in this league but what about BR? why do ropers have their racing scheme and defaulters dont? :<

Replace hyst with br??!

hmm you know i love battlerace but i dont thing its quite a classic league scheme, battlerace is the worst scheme for map whoring, way worse than any shopper or rr map whoring

Quote from: Ryan on January 19, 2017, 08:10 AM
What is the aim of these playoffs?
To see who the best is after a season?

The problem here is that we often try and split schemes up into "default" and "roping" categories.
Both those categories have more skill and more luck based schemes.

We could categorise them as follows:
Skill: Elite/TTRR/BnG/WxW
Luck: T17/Shopper/Roper/Hysteria

Currently as it is bo5 you could say not allow more than 2 schemes in luck category (or 1!).

The combination of Roper/T17/Shopper cannot seriously determine who is better...

I agree with Ryan 

People are being bias towards the schemes they prefer though.

I don't see how there is anymore skill in Elite than say Shopper or Hysteria, I like all schemes, I understand them for their unique differences and tactics, and also understand why other people don't see them the same way...

Every single scheme in Classic right now, is a skill scheme, some have a bit more luck involved than others but the fact remains 2 players of equal skill should more often than not have a close game, it always has been the case, and always will be the case.

A true all-rounder, or "best overall player" for me personally, is someone who is skilled in Classic & Free, but most players don't even try Free let alone accept it, they just won't even think about it.

These days PO shouldn't be limited to just the 8 schemes, if the purpose is to find the true overall best player.

Keep the free schemes in the free league, surely.

If beating Chelsea in WxW is worth a clanner trophy, beating komo in darts should be rewarded with tus modrights.

With as many as 8 schemes people tend to pick and learn only some of them. Schemes like BnG get forgotten cos they take more time to master and you can succeed without, which is sad. Bo7 would be indeed better if we have 8 schemes and free picks. A PO session could take ~3,5 hours but I guess we can live with that CWT finals are Bo7 too.

With less schemes it would be easier for new players to join the league and become competitive in BnG, TTRR, Elite, though

Quote from: Peja on January 20, 2017, 06:12 PM
If beating Chelsea in WxW is worth a clanner trophy, beating komo in darts should be rewarded with tus modrights.

Except beating Chelsea in WxW is easy, beating me in Darts *was* hard.

Quote from: Ryan on January 20, 2017, 06:04 PM
Keep the free schemes in the free league, surely.

Exactly my point, people aren't willing to try the other skilled schemes, stuck in the mud

Why should they remain there? At least eleborate why?

Big RR is better than TTRR (for me, and many others) where it's the opposite for you, and many others...

Edit: Lol, tbh, why they remain there or not, doesn't matter, I think what upsets me is people just disregarding Free league as boring/useless when it's MUCH harder than Classic...

Because introducing 2x more schemes exponentially increases the opportunity of scheme rape which goes against the whole point of being a better allrounder.
Unless a bo11 is used, of course.

Edit: it upsets you that the schemes aren't included which goes against logic or reason.

i agree with komo, we should be able to pick free league schemes in PO!!!

dt picks darts, cfc picks battle race, dt picks bungee race, cfc picks mole!! omg.. imagine how awesome this will be??? who will stream it??T?!?!?! 


ok, on a more serious not... i rly dont think PO need to be changed... TUS seems to focus on things that just dont matter, things that really dont make a shit of difference in most peoples opinions....

for months people complained about hyst, and ways we can make it better (if removing it was not an option) and people also discussed how to improve the t17 scheme, and roper scheme, and so on... and so on...

not once did i ever see anyone have any complaints on ttrr, yet we have switched around how that is played 3 times now? lol



anyway... i just dont see what the problem is...   picking 2 rope, 2 default, then forcing ppl to bng would be horrible...  no body wants to bng.... NOBODY! not even komo any more ;P


just leave the PO as is IMO.

ps: remove hyst from classic. (even though komo things hyst as strategic as elite... c'mon komo... really? )

Quote from: avirex on January 21, 2017, 01:20 AM
i just dont see what the problem is...

imo these pick combinations are a problem

1. TTRR+WxW+Roper (you can win by pure rope skills alone)
2. Team17+Shopper+Hysteria (a "Chelsea combo" or whatever you wanna call it)
3. Elite+Team17+Hysteria (only defaults that you can win with tactics and without much bng skills)

Bo7 would be better. A roper would need to show off something else (unless he picks cave Shoppa where roping is in a main role), a Chelsea would need to take at least one respectable win (I know Chelsea can, that's not the point) and someone who goes with defaults would at least need to show off bng skills besides tactics (if he can't rope at all). In this league you are supposed to master 8 schemes and Bo5 doesn't reflect that. Once playoffs start, you can suddenly forget about some of the schemes.

Quote from: Senator on January 21, 2017, 09:17 AM
2. Team17+Shopper+Hysteria (a "Chelsea combo" or whatever you wanna call it)

Chelsea would need to take at least one respectable win (I know Chelsea can, that's not the point) and someone who goes with defaults would at least need to show off bng skills besides tactics (if he can't rope at all).

hmmm my not "Chelsea combo" PO won games

1. BnG vs Aladdin https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-212089/
2. Roper vs Spoon https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-193974/
3. Roper vs Berria https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-128926/
+ this -> https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/classic-playoffs/?s=3
I won shoppa (not wxw), elite +...NORMAL XD (mod can change schemes) xD

i understand what you think the problem is senator... i did read the thread..

i just dont htink its a problem

i mean... your in a way kind of contradicting yourself...

at one minute, you want to fix it because it does not show whos the best all arounder, because people will pick either all rope... or all default...

but if you cant win at least one style of rope... or at least one style of default... doesnt that mean your not an all arounder???

so, its almost as if you want to cater to the people who are not all arounders...


"some people cant just pick all rope schemes, and not everyone is a good roper... so lets force 2 rope, 2 default, and then the scheme everyone hates (bng) to tie break"

i dunno... i just dont see the point in changing things, i think no matter what you do, there will be pro's and con's ... imo just leave it.

Quote from: avirex on January 21, 2017, 10:01 AM
so lets force 2 rope, 2 default, and then the scheme everyone hates (bng) to tie break"

BnG is fine! ttrr and wxw are nightmare!