While I do think that TTRR is probably the hardest of the rope schemes to be truly great at, I don't enjoy it at all. I think it's dumb that one good turn decides who wins and who loses. That's why I've always disliked the scheme. TTRR is very mechanical in that you have to navigate certain parts a certain way because it is the fastest / most efficient way and if you have one little mistake you can easily end your turn or lose enough time to where your run counts for nothing. I much prefer Big RR because there's a far greater variety of roping challenges to overcome in Big RR maps, not to mention the games are not won or lost by a single turn, although sometimes when it comes to good players one fail can cause one to lose. Also, there is more room for personal style in Big RR (without costing you the game) rather than just pure mechanical repetition. I like Big RR because it's more of a test of who can rope the fastest and most consistently over several turns rather than just one. There's also plenty of Big RR maps with TTRR sections. I do think that TTRR is a great scheme for practicing and honing roping skills, especially when it comes to control and efficiency, but I'd rather play Big RR any day because it's more fun and lasts longer.

As far as Roper goes, I used to love it and still play it once in a while but I just can't deal with the luck factor and annoying pixel hides anymore. So many Roper matches come down to crate luck and/or people sticking to the same 1 or 2 hides over and over and over. Meh. I still think it's fun as a team scheme but as with TTRR, I'd rather spend my time playing Big RR personally. Next to Big RR I think that WxW on a decently hard map with zook/nade/drill only is my preferred choice.

That said, every rope scheme teaches different competencies and while a lot of them translate to other schemes, some don't. I've seen people who are godly at TTRR yet can't win a roper match. I've also seen people who are extremely solid at roper or wxw who are awful at TTRR. IMO Big RR is the best middle ground of all rope schemes, especially given the huge variation in maps.

Any scheme becomes more enjoyable when you get good at it.. In league games you are forced to play every scheme and it's not rare that a scheme you hate becomes one of your favorites. I'd rather hear Masta's opinion on TTRR vs Big RR because he is great at both of them

Yes, you can be great at Roper but noob at TTRR. It works the other way, though. If you are great at TTRR,  you are also quite good at Roper with no or very little practice.

This fascinates me so much, seeing different perspectives.

I honestly don't see TTRR as difficult as other people do, I just see it as 1 thing...

It's hard to explain this without offending people who love the scheme because it is a great scheme and I enjoy watching it sometimes.

Guess what puts me off TTRR so much, is I know exactly what it takes to be good, countless hours of practise with, like skunk said, mechanical repetition, I don't see that as difficult, just doing the same thing day in day out, that's f**king easy if you actually enjoy it.

I don't feel like there is anything I could add, or anybody really, that nobody else has done before, that and there isn't a captivating enough roping community to feel like being part of would be fun.

The simple fact is because you can rope faster and fly, and look smoother in Big RR / Roper / WxW, it's just way more appealing to me.

I will never be good at TTRR, because I know the kind of commitment needed to be good and it's just not appealing enough, I get bored fast, my mind wanders, I start losing focus and can't do sh*t.

I don't think it's a bad scheme, i've always had great respect for any rope scheme(except shopper), and the players involved.

People constantly mock BnG, so I can say TTRR is boring 

Quote from: Senator on July 29, 2018, 12:47 PM
Any scheme becomes more enjoyable when you get good at it..

For me it's the other way around, anything I enjoy, I get good at, if I enjoy it, I pay more attention, I focus more, I have a passion to improve, if you think something is boring though, you will never improve if given the opportunity to ignore it.

I do enjoy watching TTRR challenges, live TTRR matches, for the excitement of who will win etc though, kinda like how I enjoy watching Resident Evil games for the story, but can't be bothered with the hassle of playing, i'd rather just sit back with some junk food and irn bru, and watch

I guess we are all like that though, we have things we find interesting enough to watch, and things interesting enough to take part in.

Also want to add, even though Big RR is my favourite, it's still not THAT exciting because there aren't enough good ropers around to play with, always the same handful of people, sometimes nobody at all...

Maybe i'm just reaching the stage where I am trying to stretch out the last bits of enjoyment I can from this game? Sometimes it feels like i'm forcing myself to play... Anyone else get that? Like you are clinging on desperately, or you know what... Playing Worms Armageddon presently, is like waiting on your ex to take you back... You remember how good it is so you stick around hoping it'll feel like that again, but it never f**king does!

This is a game of pixels and reflexes. Nothing is repetitive. Every rope attach will be different than the one in game before. After every move, you instantly need to think how to approach next obstacle in the map. Whether it's a climb, drop or a fly.

That's why this scheme can never get you bored by itself. Only thing changing is ppl you play with and you in general.

You can learn a scheme because your opponents pick it all the time and then you start enjoying it

Quote from: Senator on July 29, 2018, 06:10 PM
You can learn a scheme because your opponents pick it all the time and then you start enjoying it

This is not always true.

Some people's hate grow even bigger.

Quote from: Senator on July 29, 2018, 06:10 PM
You can learn a scheme because your opponents pick it all the time and then you start enjoying it

opponents don't always pick the same schemes every time as well.

Quote from: Senator on July 29, 2018, 06:10 PM
You can learn a scheme because your opponents pick it all the time and then you start enjoying it

I still hate shopper senator

Quote from: Senator on July 29, 2018, 12:47 PM
Any scheme becomes more enjoyable when you get good at it.. In league games you are forced to play every scheme and it's not rare that a scheme you hate becomes one of your favorites. I'd rather hear Masta's opinion on TTRR vs Big RR because he is great at both of them

Yes, you can be great at Roper but noob at TTRR. It works the other way, though. If you are great at TTRR,  you are also quite good at Roper with no or very little practice.

The thing is, when I am warmed up and have been actively playing recently I am pretty good at all of the rope schemes. I'd say that of those schemes I am probably least good at TTRR because I go for safety/consistency over raw speed. I typically finish all of my worms... not every single time, but most of the time. I might not have the fastest time by the end but I feel better about finishing all 3 or 4 of my worms with mediocre to decent times than finishing one worm with a blazing fast time and falling with / plopping the rest, even if that's not the point of the scheme. That said, I've never been a huge fan of TTRR for that reason. I don't like the idea of a scheme in which you can win or lose from one great turn. If I cared to improve I am certain that if I trained in TTRR exclusively for 2-3 months I could become dramatically better but even then I still wouldn't enjoy it.

I don't agree with the part about TTRR players being good at roper with no or very little practice though. (But I guess this depends on one's definition of 'good.') First of all, it's hard to imagine anyone who is excellent at TTRR who has little to no experience with Roper. Second, this is purely anecdotal but I have played with many amazing TTRR players over the years in both TTRR and Roper and their skill in TTRR doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to own in Roper because there's other competencies involved, like crate collecting, the randomness of crate drops, knocking, attacking, piling (in team games) and dealing with the constraints of only having 15 seconds to work with as opposed to an infinite timer.

If I were to arrange the 'big 4' rope schemes in terms of skill, I'd rank them as:

1. TTRR
2. Big RR
3. WxW (hard settings)
4. Roper

If I were to arrange them in terms of fun, I'd rank them as:

1. Big RR
2. WxW (hard settings)
3. Roper
4. TTRR

So while TTRR might be a bit more difficult to excel at than Big RR, the fun factor of Big RR more than makes up for it.

Just my opinion!

League is good!

Generally speaking, a scheme is only as hard as the map.

Whether it's WxW, Roper, Big RR or TTRR, they are all easy to learn, all easy to play, but they all take time and dedication to master.

The only thing that actually gets "harder" is competing with the top players, because as they specialize more and more, they get better and better, so you have to keep getting better/stay warm to keep up, TTRR is definitely harder in that sense, because there is a much greater amount of good players than Big RR.

TTRR actually has legends and history, Big RR has Masta, and that's pretty much it lol, and I think many players have the ability to surpass Masta if they tried, but it's not popular enough

Since TTRR has a MUCH bigger and more hardcore fanbase, it's been around longer, and has various godlike players than Big RR, it doesn't surprise me people think TTRR is harder than Big RR, because more has been done with it, I wonder what things would be like, if Big RR as we know it now, was available when TTRR 1st started, I guess it would be as popular if not more popular because of it's more appealing speed/trickery.

Generally speaking Ropers are always decided on the crates, but, in this sense isn't Roper the most difficult? Because sometimes the crates demand absolute perfect roping or you won't even meet the target, at least in TTRR, you CAN reach the finish. Then again, that makes it the easiest as well lol.

You can only get so good at TTRR, you can only get so good at Big RR, you can only get so good at WxW.

What can you even say is harder about TTRR? Or what does it have that's unique that another Rope scheme doesn't have?

"It takes longer to get better than any other rope scheme" - Does it? Or maybe people have just played TTRR for longer, with greater passion than Big RR and therefor it's just evolved more.

Every rope scheme the goal is to get better and better, we've never seen anybody rope even close to what tool assist can do, for any scheme, but we've both seen insane levels of skill for all these schemes, and I think each are as impressive as the other.

Nobody will ever be perfect at any of these schemes, so none of them are harder than the other.

The only thing I ever found hard about this game, is trying to prevent my own anger when I fail easy things i've done a million times before, and that happens in every scheme...

Also, what about Warmers? You could practise for years and years and still suck...

Quote from: TheKomodo on July 30, 2018, 03:05 AM
Generally speaking, a scheme is only as hard as the map.

Whether it's WxW, Roper, Big RR or TTRR, they are all easy to learn, all easy to play, but they all take time and dedication to master.

The only thing that actually gets "harder" is competing with the top players, because as they specialize more and more, they get better and better, so you have to keep getting better/stay warm to keep up, TTRR is definitely harder in that sense, because there is a much greater amount of good players than Big RR.

TTRR actually has legends and history, Big RR has Masta, and that's pretty much it lol, and I think many players have the ability to surpass Masta if they tried, but it's not popular enough

Since TTRR has a MUCH bigger and more hardcore fanbase, it's been around longer, and has various godlike players than Big RR, it doesn't surprise me people think TTRR is harder than Big RR, because more has been done with it, I wonder what things would be like, if Big RR as we know it now, was available when TTRR 1st started, I guess it would be as popular if not more popular because of it's more appealing speed/trickery.

Generally speaking Ropers are always decided on the crates, but, in this sense isn't Roper the most difficult? Because sometimes the crates demand absolute perfect roping or you won't even meet the target, at least in TTRR, you CAN reach the finish. Then again, that makes it the easiest as well lol.

You can only get so good at TTRR, you can only get so good at Big RR, you can only get so good at WxW.

What can you even say is harder about TTRR? Or what does it have that's unique that another Rope scheme doesn't have?

"It takes longer to get better than any other rope scheme" - Does it? Or maybe people have just played TTRR for longer, with greater passion than Big RR and therefor it's just evolved more.

Every rope scheme the goal is to get better and better, we've never seen anybody rope even close to what tool assist can do, for any scheme, but we've both seen insane levels of skill for all these schemes, and I think each are as impressive as the other.

Nobody will ever be perfect at any of these schemes, so none of them are harder than the other.

The only thing I ever found hard about this game, is trying to prevent my own anger when I fail easy things i've done a million times before, and that happens in every scheme...

Also, what about Warmers? You could practise for years and years and still suck...

Eh, I disagree in a way. Hardly anyone plays TTRR anymore, especially now that league activity is next to nothing. Even when the league was very active, most people hosted non-TUS TTRRs so they could practice for ranked. Big RR is far, far more common / popular these days. Also, the TTRR gods of yore pretty much don't play at all anymore. On the other hand, there's plenty of solid Big RR players who are currently active. As far as Masta goes, I'm not trying to throw any shade but meh. I don't care about offline challenges. If you're not actively on WormNET owning people in multiplayer on at least a semi-regular basis, I couldn't give a crap about any accomplishments you may have. I haven't seen Masta on WormNET in at least 2 years, except for one possible time in which I am fairly sure I played vs. him in Big RR using an alias, but it's entirely possible that I could be wrong. Masta's 'legendary' status comes from offline challenges and nothing else. (In other words, replaying the same map a hundred times until you get a perfect run.) I'm seriously not trying to sound like a hater here, I'm just speaking how I feel. I think that the level of competition in the Big RR scene over the past few years is just as high as it was in the TTRR scene during it's golden years, although it's definitely slowed down in the last year or so.

The reason why I think that TTRR is harder than other rope-based schemes is because there's a much smaller threshold for error due to roping in tight spaces. It is easier to correct small mistakes in other schemes, and a single mistake is often not going to be enough to cause you to lose. You also need to be very mechanically consistent and do everything 'just so' during your turn because one tiny mistake can cost you a single second and that's enough to lose if players are evenly matched. Of course this applies to other rope schemes as well but it is far more crucial in TTRR.

Well, I meant in general, TTRR has seen a MUCH bigger player base over time, right now Big RR is more popular, but like not even 5% the popularity TTRR had...

This is why competition is good, and why people should compete with legit names, cuz nobody knows who is who, people are using scripts, double spacebars, aliasing constantly, it's healthy to have a place to actually compete against each other, see other players progress and improve, get some hype!

To be honest, the challenges don't impress me as much as live roping, but Masta is the best i've seen in an actual live game in Big RR.

TTRR has a smaller threshold for error due to roping in tight spaces, but because of this the worms don't go anywhere near as fast as in Big RR, if you were throwing your worms around as fast as you do in Big RR, you wouldn't last more than a few seconds, so that's why I don't see it as harder than Big RR, it's no harder learning to control the rope in tighter areas carefully, than it is throwing your worm as hard as you can in Big RR, pushing both schemes to the limit.

In Big RR you REALLY gotta push yourself harder and faster as much as you can, and take greater risks with power spikes/scrolls etc, to get the job done faster than anyone else, Big RR hasn't even reached it's potential yet, I wish it had the fanbase and dedication that TTRR used to have, I would bet more people would witness what i'm talking about.

It's a completely different groove to master.

I've never said TTRR was easier than anything else, or whatever, all I said was TTRR is slower and way less appealing to me, compared to Big RR.

Dave take a look at the best records in some of the most popular challenges, people go full speed with extreme accuracy pushing it to the limit.

Quote from: Sbaffo on July 29, 2018, 07:46 PM
I still hate shopper senator

Didn't you enjoy it more after you learned the basics of roping and were able to make successful turns? Besides, TUS scheme is stripped down to a few different weapons so I don't wonder why people don't enjoy it.

Quote from: skunk3 on July 29, 2018, 08:12 PM
If I were to arrange the 'big 4' rope schemes in terms of skill, I'd rank them as:

1. TTRR
2. Big RR
3. WxW (hard settings)
4. Roper

Why do you rank Big RR and WxW higher than Roper? They require very similar roping skills (when you get a hard crate in Roper). One could say Roper is a bit harder because the maps are non-linear. Also this:

Quote from: TheKomodo on July 30, 2018, 03:05 AM
Generally speaking Ropers are always decided on the crates, but, in this sense isn't Roper the most difficult? Because sometimes the crates demand absolute perfect roping or you won't even meet the target

Quote from: TheKomodo on July 30, 2018, 08:04 AM
it's no harder learning to control the rope in tighter areas carefully, than it is throwing your worm as hard as you can in Big RR, pushing both schemes to the limit.

I think you are alone with this view. It's easier to keep the worm on the track on a wide map even if the pace is faster.