Quote from: ShyGuy on October 27, 2010, 09:00 PM
revised then: you barely use ss compared to other weapons

Why should the regularity of a weapon make it more important to you?

SS is more important in Elite than Grenades or Zooks, I would say as equally important as rope depending on the situation, there are situations where rope is more useful/crucial and SS is more useful/crucial.

Anyway, is there any particular reason why you really don't want SSR? Or is it just because you don't like it and you have a stubborn happiness of what you are already used to in Leagues?

I'll ask you this then, is there ANY scheme YOU would like to see introduced to the Classic League?


And avi, seriously get a life mate, you look so pathetic repeating the same boring joke.

Quote from: Komo on October 28, 2010, 06:51 AM

Why should the regularity of a weapon make it more important to you?

Because I have to use it more?

Quote from: Komo on October 28, 2010, 06:51 AM

SS is more important in Elite than Grenades or Zooks, I would say as equally important as rope depending on the situation, there are situations where rope is more useful/crucial and SS is more useful/crucial.

I would disagree.  You can use nades to beat up their hide, destroy their steps so they can't get out, use the mortar/nade combo damage them so then you can use the ss...
Players usually guard their last worm well from a ss, so often times we see the ss late into the game at high rise sd and it isn't so hard to plop them...

Komo, I get the impression you think people use ss in elite and it is some tight squeeze ssr adventure through the map... that is hardly ever the case, although there are cool replays of that.

Quote from: Komo on October 28, 2010, 06:51 AM

Anyway, is there any particular reason why you really don't want SSR? Or is it just because you don't like it and you have a stubborn happiness of what you are already used to in Leagues?

I already gave particular reasons... and once again, I never said if I liked SSR or not, so stop with that.
"and you have a stubborn happiness of what you are already used to in Leagues?"
I have publicly advocated w2roper, 30 second rr, and intermediate being entered into the league... Why don't you stop talking out of your ass?

"I'll ask you this then, is there ANY scheme YOU would like to see introduced to the Classic League?"

Yes, read above. 

Silly conversation.  Just to interject.

You haven't really defined 'essential', so there is no real resolution to this debate.

Super Sheep is a unique super weapon that is much more powerful and effective than a nade.  Can they really be compared when they are so different?

In elite you only have 1 super sheep but you have infinite nades....so nades could be considered essential and super sheep an added extra.

I would consider the super sheep the most useful weapon in the elite arsenal but not essential.  You can take a super sheep out of elite and it would still be elite.  Taking out the nade would seriously f@#! up the scheme.

Super sheep is a completely unique weapon which is why it has it's own scheme.

Just because you use something more doesn't make it more important Shy...

Ok so we both disagree here, end of story, I think SS is more useful than grenades and zooks in Elite, and that's coming from someone who has spent the last 6 years exclusively playing with grenades and zooks, but that's just my opinion, so yeah I respect how you feel ok?

I didn't say you did or didn't I said "or is it because" with a question mark at the end of the sentence.

I am not saying SS is always a tight squeeze, but you cannot argue that SS is such a crucial shot of a game, most times i've seen someone really miss their SS they have lost because alot of the time they were counting on it to hit, and hit right, so SSR would be GREAT practise for this as well as being it's own competitive and fun scheme.

Intermediate, fair enough, but w2rope and 30s RR doesn't really count as most people have suggested it as a 2nd choice to the norm.

We don't need variations of the same scheme, we don't need SSR/Bungee/Forts either if we are talking about the literal meaning of the word "need", but I think these 3 would be a MUCH better variation and fun, at the same time being competitive.

I'd much rather have Bungee/SSR/Forts in the league than w2rope/30sRR/Intermediate.

w2rope and 30sRR is more or less the exact same thing as Roper and TTRR, it's the same thing just diff rules.

Intermediate feels like a variation of Elite, just like Forts is like a variation of BnG for me, but Bungee and SSR are 2 totally fun schemes and I think it would make things MUCH more interesting and people could have fun playing them.

What would hurt so much about having these 3 schemes?

Cue, i've already declared I took Shy's use of the word "essential" literally, meaning what it says in the dictionary, not a twisted sense of the word.

Quote from: ShyGuy on October 28, 2010, 11:12 AM
Komo, I get the impression you think people use ss in elite and it is some tight squeeze ssr adventure through the map... that is hardly ever the case, although there are cool replays of that.

I was thinking about this, but didn't want to say before, 'cause i found it stupid. But now you came up with it... So if you think this way, then what's the point of playing RopeRace? You hardly ever need to use that style of roping in any other "popular" scheme.

Quote from: Prankster on October 28, 2010, 12:31 PM

Quote from: ShyGuy on October 28, 2010, 11:12 AM
Komo, I get the impression you think people use ss in elite and it is some tight squeeze ssr adventure through the map... that is hardly ever the case, although there are cool replays of that.

I was thinking about this, but didn't want to say before, 'cause i found it stupid. But now you came up with it... So if you think this way, than what's the point of playing RopeRace? You hardly ever need to use that style of roping in any other "popular" scheme.

Exactly, +1

This is why I think SSR would be good... Cuz it's a nice way to use a single element of the game as a scheme.

So far ur the only one who feels ssr should be added to the schemes... And one of the very few the dont think 30sec rr should be.. +1 for standing ur ground.. No matter how many people always disagree with u

Quote from: Komo on October 28, 2010, 11:58 AM
We don't need variations of the same scheme, we don't need SSR/Bungee/Forts either if we are talking about the literal meaning of the word "need", but I think these 3 would be a MUCH better variation and fun, at the same time being competitive.

I'd much rather have Bungee/SSR/Forts in the league than w2rope/30sRR/Intermediate.

w2rope and 30sRR is more or less the exact same thing as Roper and TTRR, it's the same thing just diff rules.

Intermediate feels like a variation of Elite, just like Forts is like a variation of BnG for me, but Bungee and SSR are 2 totally fun schemes and I think it would make things MUCH more interesting and people could have fun playing them.

What would hurt so much about having these 3 schemes?

Cue, i've already declared I took Shy's use of the word "essential" literally, meaning what it says in the dictionary, not a twisted sense of the word.

We already have these schemes. People are playing them here, here and here.

Quote from: Husk on October 28, 2010, 03:49 PM
We already have these schemes. People are playing them here, here and here.

I would like to play them in Classic league where MUCH more people play people actually play alot.

I thought that was obvious, but nevermind lol.

I think these discussions are great! After all, avi did complain about the low activity on the forums, so to be honest, he should be glad Komo is here to argue

Komo is like the daylie news poster. Always something new and always (!) interesting stuff. I mean it's not like it's completely bullshit. I enjoy it at least.

I ain't arguin crazy, i'm just trying to convince them about SSR, it ain't like we are shouting at each other and gonna throttle each other lol.

It's a debate

But yeah, I guess I do go that extra step everytime, I would like these 3 schemes in Classic, but if they don't, I ain't gonna cry about it I can live without it lol, just saying i'd probably start playing Classic league again with some new schemes to play competitively

Quote from: Komo on October 28, 2010, 11:58 AM

I am not saying SS is always a tight squeeze, but you cannot argue that SS is such a crucial shot of a game, most times i've seen someone really miss their SS they have lost because alot of the time they were counting on it to hit, and hit right, so SSR would be GREAT practise for this as well as being it's own competitive and fun scheme.

Adding a scheme just because it complements ONE element in ONE scheme doesn't make a lot of sense.  Like cue said, you don't have to have a ss for elite to be elite... that element doesn't even have to be there.


"I'd much rather have Bungee/SSR/Forts in the league than w2rope/30sRR/Intermediate."

I don't know why you are going on about w2rope/30srr/intermediate... I just named those as a rebuttal to you questioning me if I was stubborn on change... I am talking about ssr right now. But now that you mention it...

Bungeerace: I would once again argue that bungee is not a vital part of the game, thus making bungeerace a pickable scheme in classic league would be foolish.

SSR: Same reasoning as bungeerace.  Like Komo said, it is a vital move in elite, but that is just one element of one scheme... not enough for me.

Forts: I don't have a problem with forts.  You have to do well with your weapons, which you get a nice variety of. No problem with that scheme.

A note about ttrr:
Yes, ttrr you only get ropes and chutes, but this scheme is classic league valid because of how important the rope is to so many other schemes.  That is why a scheme centered on just the rope is acceptable, and why schemes centered on the bungee and ss are not...

Oh so, you think TTRR is vital because you like it more, but SSR isn't?

Sorry if I am wrong, but isn't TTRR just ONE element of the game as well? That's a bit hypocritical isn't it?

The element doesn't HAVE to be there but it IS the most useful weapon in Elite to so many people.

Rope isn't "important" to other schemes, it's just "used" in other schemes, for example, SS to me is more useful than Rope in both T17 AND Elite, and I am sure it is for other people also, and I am sure some will disagree and think of it vice-versa.

And seriously, your opinion on Forts, nice one mate, even if just Forts was introduced to Classic league, i'd be so much happier. At least it's something.

But lol, even though YOU agree with Forts, probably everyone else won't

I can't win either way LOL

Quote from: Komo on October 28, 2010, 07:40 PM
Oh so, you think TTRR is vital because you like it more, but SSR isn't?

Wait... where the hell do you keep getting this "because you like it" stuff? I never said anything like that.. and i don't care if you wrote that statement in question form.. stop it.

Quote from: Komo on October 28, 2010, 07:40 PM
Sorry if I am wrong, but isn't TTRR just ONE element of the game as well? That's a bit hypocritical isn't it?

I addressed that EXACT statement in my previous post.. did you even read it?
"A note about ttrr:
Yes, ttrr you only get ropes and chutes, but this scheme is classic league valid because of how important the rope is to so many other schemes.  That is why a scheme centered on just the rope is acceptable, and why schemes centered on the bungee and ss are not... "

Quote from: Komo on October 28, 2010, 07:40 PM
Rope isn't "important" to other schemes, it's just "used" in other schemes, for example, SS to me is more useful than Rope in both T17 AND Elite, and I am sure it is for other people also, and I am sure some will disagree and think of it vice-versa.

If you are terrible at roping, it is likely you will lose roper, shoppa, and wxw. those are 3 schemes that you can lose JUST because of your roping skill.  You can't say the same for ss. 

You are right about your last sentence, though, people will disagree and agree. I personally would say using your 2 ropes in elite is more important than the ss.  Remember, your opponent doesn't magically end up with 1 worm at the end.. you have to do stuff in the middle of the game... for me, I would always rope if there was a possible double skunk, and I know most people would use a rope to jump on a double skunk. 

As for t17, I disagree with you there, too.  There are many other sd weapons you can get in t17, not just ss.  But when you have a rope and your opponent doesn't, you have a huge advantage... you can hide all around them in unreachable places without having to worry about being killed... Also, they only give you 1 rope in t17.. you only have 1 time you can use it, so it is important when to use it.

good discussion