bah
I think notching and marking shots (or just middling them with some stuff) are really lame.
But lamentably we cannot do anything against this, cause we cannot see througout the screen
So I think this time this talking is really senseless.
Its out of moral of each one, if they do it, or no 
And I remember that I used to middle some shots at BnG (when used to play offline)
and I made a lot of maths and stuff about shots winds and things. That copybook went to the landfill thanks to my mother. xD

Quote from: Random00 on December 05, 2011, 02:09 PM
Imo, nearly every player in the top20 tel standings has some visual aid for kamikaze. It just makes playing more accurate and the quality of the games is better.

What you call quality of the games is only higher if you assume that the person watching the replay is clueless about how those impressively accurate moves are being done. Once he learns that the top players use visual aids to gain an advantage, such a spectator will likely think less of Worms Armageddon's potential for competitive gaming, simply because it allows something like that. All discussion about enforceability aside, I don't think you can form a reasonable argument explaining how using a cheat sheet is objectively more skillful than developing a feel for the behaviour of any weapon in the game.

Without exception, doing the same thing in your head, without the cheat sheet or ruler or whatever, is more impressive, meaning that in scenarios where these things can be enforced, the overall capacity for skill is higher if you don't allow external aids. Can we agree on that, at least?

Well said KRD, I`d give you an applaud for that post.

Sure, its more impressive if you remember all things instead of looking them up.

But imo using paper for worms games is like using formulary for math tests. You simply have more time for the important stuff, e.g. tactical behaviour in Elite.
Dario for example has written down a lot of distances, flying behaviour of worms, maximum angles for certain situations, etc. I dont see why you shouldnt use those things.

The only scheme where this would make sense is bng imo, because its a very technical scheme.

In Intermediate for example it makes a HUGE difference (for me) if I play with writing down things (opponents worms' names, used weaps) or not...

If there is more important thing than aiming at Worms, then we didn't play the same game.

so you win your elite games only with your aiming skills? its nice how you pick up a special part of randoms post and generalize it to something where he looks stupid. well atleast it shows you know how propaganda works.

markings/paper which show/make almost perfect shot... if thats allowed and bot not. whats the huge difference between?? lol


when i started to play elite i had kami marks for a little time. its dämn cheating, nothing else.

If my aiming skills were perfect, I would won every Elite, yeah.

PS: You call putting the meaning of his sentence to his right place "generalizing" ?
He generalized what I answered. Just so it doesn't look as dumb as it is.
And I just pointed out the dumb part.
Now if you want to counter me, you'll have to use your brain.

In addition, don't point a specific scheme (elite there), 'cause this problem involves every schemes.

Quote from: DeathInFire on December 05, 2011, 04:44 PM
Most monitors have something written under the screen, I know that my old screen hat weird painting under the screen where I just related the color to the distance, if the worm was standing near "blue" I knew that it's a straight up full power Zook with 1 strength to the left. Since it was a symmetrical it applied to both wind sides.

Later on I just extended that by making additional markings since it made sense to me, never felt like cheating to me tbh. I actually thought it is smart, lol.

I think it's fine to use buttons or things that are part of your monitor to help you aim, because it's not like there are any monitors out there that come with gridlines, not much danger of abuse. I think we should just disallow further markings because they basically allow you to not even have to use your memory for shots.

I mean people complain that BnG becomes entirely a game of memory once you start notching, but with markings or written down shots, even that's taken away. You should at the very least have to remember notches and their distances. If someone gave a newbie a master list of shots and taught them how to notch (and they used visual aids), they would be a pro in a matter of weeks.

1 thing that worries me is why people after so many years playing this game would use help to determine kami explosion? Its no big deal for anyone paying minimum attention to detail and knowing how it works. Same goes for every distance/trajectory, its what you should learn over the time, not make the sheet of paper to play for you. Also, when you find time to pick paper, place it on the screen and then drop it in lets say Elite, that requires a lot skills to me if you have 20 sec to run and execute a move Honestly, id lol at this if i saw someone doing it offline.

Quote from: Random00 on December 05, 2011, 07:11 PM
Sure, its more impressive if you remember all things instead of looking them up.

But imo using paper for worms games is like using formulary for math tests. You simply have more time for the important stuff, e.g. tactical behaviour in Elite.
Dario for example has written down a lot of distances, flying behaviour of worms, maximum angles for certain situations, etc. I dont see why you shouldnt use those things.

The only scheme where this would make sense is bng imo, because its a very technical scheme.

In Intermediate for example it makes a HUGE difference (for me) if I play with writing down things (opponents worms' names, used weaps) or not...

Dario doesn't have those things written down, he's simply committed them to memory, like most intermediate players; he also frowns on the use of paper to aim straight. Also, most people including myself use their finger as a kami ruler, and there's nothing wrong with that, since the length is still prone to error.

I just tested, my finger is exactly the length of a kami. Good to know. ^^

Oh and, I agree with what random said. Even with lots of markings there are things to consider, since different depth / height of the worm and the target make the aiming different too. Sure it's an advantage so imo it should be accessible to everyone. With the exception of live events there is no such tool to detect if someone is using markings etc., makes it senseless to make a rule against it so by my logic it's just smarter to give everyone the same chances.

Once again, a rule about this is just as 'senseless' as a rule about macros, which are also undetectable. It's very important that people aren't allowed to use macros for aiming, mine drops, roping, and various other things. Just like macros, allowing visual aids and memory aids simply cheapens the skill of WA itself, and makes aspects of it such as BnG not worth playing.

By allowing visual aids and memory aids (and along those lines you would have to make macros legal as well), some current players and potential future players will be turned off from the game when they hear about them, isn't that a good enough reason to make them illegal?

I like the whole idea of 'what would you do in a live match'.

If you find yourself using tactics and guides which you probably wouldn't use in a live match then you know its time to stop using those tactics.

No one would feel cool about putting their finger on a screen to remember a shot.  How to lose all your gaming kudos! Like Lacoste said, use the terrain to your advantage.

Its only natural for a community obsessed with a game to test out different ways to enhance accuracy and improve performance but if you're winning using methods you'd actually be embarrassed to use in public then simply stop because being a genuinely cool person is better than winning without style.

Quote from: Random00 on December 05, 2011, 07:11 PM
But imo using paper for worms games is like using formulary for math tests. You simply have more time for the important stuff, e.g. tactical behaviour in Elite.

If you bring i.e. a table of derivatives to a math test and your teacher allows it, it's because the concept of derivatives has already been tested in previous tests. What's important for your teacher is not to test that specific knowledge, but something else you can apply it to.
Your analogy is read like this: the fact that you are able to damage a worm is something given, something that is not part of the skills that are tested in competitive gameplay. And that's where it's wrong.
If your paper guarantees you attacking success, and you can "have more time for the important stuff", what you really are doing is bypassing the problem of having to hit a worm in the first place. And this problem is in fact one of the key aspects of default schemes.
Moreso in competitive games, where it's not just a matter of playing by the book, because there are other external factors like pressure, urgencies, adversity, etc. A paper (or markings or other) that guarantees you attacking success takes all of that out of the question.

In short, you're bringing a derivatives table to a derivatives test, not to an integrals test. Can your teacher allow that to happen?