[SOLVED] wxw game... should it be dt win? or a rematch.

[avirex]

ok, so.. j0hnny did that zook glitch at 6:25where the zook sticks to the worm for some seconds, acting like a nade, which as far as i know is illegal??

this resulted in chelsea falling on a barrel...  they tried to say it was no benefit to them, because it was easy to get those results with a regular zooka as well, i do not agree...  i dont think it was impossible, but i think it would be a very difficult shot, with the worm that close to the wall, and the wind he had to send him to the barrel without the zooka glitch.

they also tried saying he didnt do it on purpose, lol... which is clearly not true as well..

Chelsea asked for a skip, but i was thinking it would be more fair if i gave them the option, to either skip one turn (and then they can attack barrle or whatever else they wanna do) or.. dont skip a turn, and just do not attack the worm that was at the barrel... i thought i was being fair, but i guess they thought otherwise...

they took no penalty, until a few turns later,at 12:30 johnny knocked me for fd, and then knocked me some more for a pile with chelsea, and then knocked us even more to put us at the barrel, and said that was his skip.

IMO a skip is, collecting cr8, and going back to the hide you were in... sometimes ppl hide,  not sure if thats legal either... i think rules should be more specific regarding if your allowed to hide after cr8 grab, or you should go back to original location.

but as far as knocks, that should deff. not be considered a skip.. first off, it was an aggressive turn which gave damage to my worm. Second, it gave them a clear advantage for future turns. Third, its a commonly used tactic in wxw, skip going for the walls if you can set up your partner with a good pile, or a barrel just by knocks.... so for those reasons, it should deff not count as a skip..

we told them it does not count, they continued to refuse any penalty... even their team mate Mega`Adnan told them it was not a legal skip.

anyway, the game resulted in a draw... me and chelsea each had 1 worm each, and was TLAD turn, they killed me, then sui'd on chelsea to kill him...   

soooo.. sorry the post is so long, but now i wanna know... should it be our win??? they gave us extra damage due to an illegal move, so we would have had more health in the end, and his double kill would not be possible, and they refused to skip... which also would have given us more health....   if they had taken the penalty they deserved, the game would have been our win..

but, i dont want to argue this point much, i dont care much about the win, if its our win, cool... if its a rematch, thats fine as well, but i think its important that its clear to everyone what exactly a skip is...  i think the main question is, are you allowed to hide after the cr8, or go back to original location?  I guess for people like johnny who like to exploit the rules, other things should be noted in the rules regarding skips too, such as no knocking for damage, no piling worms, and no knocking worms to barrels.

thnx, heres replay.


PS: if the game is a win, a loss, or a rematch... thats up to the MODS, but imo, anyone can get involved in the discussion about what should, and should not be legal in a 'skip' turn.

[ANO]

THis is what I knew about SKIP turns:

- you take the crate and go back to the original hide.
- Sometimes people hide, I don't think it's fair but those noobs do.

Therefore if you don't limit yourself to simply take the crate, you break rules and in this case DT should take the win.

[Kaleu]

Yes you can do either hide or pile without attacking if you cowed, not sure about damaging your opponent's worm with fall damage, I think you can do it aswell.

Source: https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/leagues-general/cow-rule-change-in-wxw-11738/

[Senator]

ok, so.. j0hnny did that zook glitch at 6:25where the zook sticks to the worm for some seconds, acting like a nade, which as far as i know is illegal??

this resulted in chelsea falling on a barrel...  they tried to say it was no benefit to them, because it was easy to get those results with a regular zooka as well, i do not agree...  i dont think it was impossible, but i think it would be a very difficult shot, with the worm that close to the wall, and the wind he had to send him to the barrel without the zooka glitch.

they also tried saying he didnt do it on purpose, lol... which is clearly not true as well..

Chelsea asked for a skip, but i was thinking it would be more fair if i gave them the option, to either skip one turn (and then they can attack barrle or whatever else they wanna do) or.. dont skip a turn, and just do not attack the worm that was at the barrel... i thought i was being fair, but i guess they thought otherwise...

I said j0hny didn't know he actually broke a rule. j0hny could have easily used a mine to drop your worm down and he had also plenty of time to knock your worm closer to the edge to zook the worm down. So we didn't really benefit from this "cow". Usually when such a meaningless cow occurs, people say "np no need to skip" so we were kind of pissed to hear u asking to skip.

they took no penalty, until a few turns later,at 12:30 johnny knocked me for fd, and then knocked me some more for a pile with chelsea, and then knocked us even more to put us at the barrel, and said that was his skip.

IMO a skip is, collecting cr8, and going back to the hide you were in... sometimes ppl hide,  not sure if thats legal either... i think rules should be more specific regarding if your allowed to hide after cr8 grab, or you should go back to original location.

but as far as knocks, that should deff. not be considered a skip.. first off, it was an aggressive turn which gave damage to my worm. Second, it gave them a clear advantage for future turns. Third, its a commonly used tactic in wxw, skip going for the walls if you can set up your partner with a good pile, or a barrel just by knocks.... so for those reasons, it should deff not count as a skip..

Like you said, rules are not specific about what you can do during skip turn. Rules say "If you break any of the rules mentioned above (WBA, CBA, AFR) you must not attack your opponent during your next turn, but you're still allowed to get your crate." If you follow this rule literally, u should be allowed to do anything but attack. I agree that you should be only allowed to take the crate and perhaps hide. But is it our fault if rules leave room for interpretation?

anyway, the game resulted in a draw... me and chelsea each had 1 worm each, and was TLAD turn, they killed me, then sui'd on chelsea to kill him...   

soooo.. sorry the post is so long, but now i wanna know... should it be our win??? they gave us extra damage due to an illegal move, so we would have had more health in the end, and his double kill would not be possible, and they refused to skip... which also would have given us more health....   if they had taken the penalty they deserved, the game would have been our win..

You can't say "it would have been our win if they had skipped". If j0hny had skipped another turn, that would have affected the following turns. In other words, you and we would have played differently after that. Maybe I wouldn't have made that big fail in the end, which made the game a draw instead of an easy win for us?

Even if we had won, you could say the same "if they had taken the penalty they deserved, the game would have been our win". Usually mods void a game if a cow happened earlier in the game.  If we had finished the game by breaking a rule, it would be your win.

[spleen17]

If you break any of the rules mentioned above (WBA, CBA, AFR) you must not attack your opponent durin g your next turn, but you're still allowed to get your crate.

I would consider any kind of knock to be an "attack" because you are still interfering with play, the whole point of the skip (in my mind) is to take your crate and not do anything else that affects the gameplay. Otherwise people could just cow on purpose when they know they would gain an advantage by knocking the following turn.

Either way I think the rules should be more clear ... some of the scheme pages have very short descriptions, would also save the mods some time I guess

[TheKomodo]

I would consider any kind of knock to be an "attack" because you are still interfering with play, the whole point of the skip (in my mind) is to take your crate and not do anything else that affects the gameplay. Otherwise people could just cow on purpose when they know they would gain an advantage by knocking the following turn.

Either way I think the rules should be more clear ... some of the scheme pages have very short descriptions, would also save the mods some time I guess

Got to agree with this, a skip should mean crate and return, nothing else, doing knocks, piles etc, is obviously doing something tactical.

The rules should be specific about this.

[ANO]

Usually when such a meaningless cow occurs, people say "np no need to skip" so we were kind of pissed to hear u asking to skip

... this is a league.

[avirex]

@senator: exactly what ANO said.. im not sure why you are so shocked we asked for a penalty...  if you break a rule you skip a turn, even the fairest clan on w:a (tdc in my opinion) would ask that you skip a turn if you break a rule...

im not sure who your playing that says "ahh np, you broke a rule and there for put me on top of a barrel that you will blow up next turn, np tho.." i would like to play them though.

anyway, i dont want to argue back and forth with you, or any other TLaD member... i said my deal, you said yours, we have separate opinions obviously, so thats what the MODS are for, they can decide if game is void, or a win.


@Kaleu, im not going to read that entire thread you posted, im talking about today, not last year, or whenever that complaint was...

you think when your skipping due to a penalty you can do all this other extra shit?? you believe tactical knocks should be allowed one your penalty? you think you should be able to give damage via. knocks/fall damage?? really??  you may be the only worm that things that, apart from jOhnny then....  but, i guess we can get more opinions on this.

[Senator]

@senator: exactly what ANO said.. im not sure why you are so shocked we asked for a penalty...  if you break a rule you skip a turn, even the fairest clan on w:a (tdc in my opinion) would ask that you skip a turn if you break a rule...

im not sure who your playing that says "ahh np, you broke a rule and there for put me on top of a barrel that you will blow up next turn, np tho.." i would like to play them though.

There is a difference between benefiting/not benefiting from a rule break. A common situation is when you try to shoot rope but shoot bazooka instead and damage both your own worm and the opponent. I haven't seen anyone asking to skip in that situation. Like I said, we didn't benefit from that "cow" because we had several ways to drop your worm down (placing a mine being even less time consuming than this bazooka glitch).

[Kaleu]

Well Avi, I did not mention in any moment that I agree with this (I don't btw), I just answered your question with the best example possible, MI cowed then in the next turn he collected the crate and pilled the opponent's worm. Then yes you can do that, don't blame me. 

[ANO]

@senator: exactly what ANO said.. im not sure why you are so shocked we asked for a penalty...  if you break a rule you skip a turn, even the fairest clan on w:a (tdc in my opinion) would ask that you skip a turn if you break a rule...

im not sure who your playing that says "ahh np, you broke a rule and there for put me on top of a barrel that you will blow up next turn, np tho.." i would like to play them though.

There is a difference between benefiting/not benefiting from a rule break. A common situation is when you try to shoot rope but shoot bazooka instead and damage both your own worm and the opponent. I haven't seen anyone asking to skip in that situation. Like I said, we didn't benefit from that "cow" because we had several ways to drop your worm down (placing a mine being even less time consuming than this bazooka glitch).

what league are you used to play TlaD-guys? Discount.league.com?

[Peja]

senator has a point though, zook glitch takes time and is harder to predict than a mine, its like accidently breaking a rule which doesnt have much effect on the outcome. kinda the same as rope knocking in elite without to gain any new attack option. and i hardly see anyone asking to skip a turn in such a case.

but a rule is a rule, and if you break it (intentional or not) you have to accept the penalty if the other party wants it  and you dont have any right to complain about it.

[theredi]

Got to agree with this, a skip should mean crate and return, nothing else, doing knocks, piles etc, is obviously doing something tactical.

The rules should be specific about this.

kinslave crying in

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[avirex]

peja:: how can you say that a mine is easier to predict where you blow the worm, then a glitch zook??? glitch zook has the same effect each and every time.. he knew exactly what he was doing.... how can you compare a knock in elite, that has no effect on the game, to a glitch zook that throws the worm into a barrel? and just to clarify things, i did not ask them to skip their turn, i gave them options which i thought was very fair.

senator:: stop saying this zook glitch did not benefit your game, it definitely benefits your game that the zook glitch threw chelsea to the barrel, regardless what weapons you had in your inventory, you used an illegal one to get him to the barrel..   

[j0hny]

I did not know that this is so serious a problem here :/

ok then, win is yours, I have never heard about it that should not be a glitch in the game. By this mistake I was called an idiot who dont know the rules.

Hard league...