BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE

[TheKomodo]

Komo, that's like saying "there's air pollution from other sources anyway so why shouldn't we create more coal-fired power plants?" - it's just making things worse to think that way.

Solving the issue you're talking about is pretty easy (apart from the coding work, I don't know about that): No more searching for TUS games on AG; instead use a "match making" button on TUS that pairs you with a player as close as possible to your own (overall) rating, that's how it works for a dozen other competitively played games as well.

No it isn't like saying that, this is a game, not poison that kills.

It isn't easy, or after nearly 14 years, we would have done it by now, and it isn't coding that is the problem, it's being a very small community with vastly different timezones while all at school/studying/working/the wife, or if you are lalo, puta la wena wea or something...

[darKz]

It was a metaphor, of course it's not exactly the same. Sigh.

We already had a match making system in TPL, the problem was that it was still allowed/possible to look for games the old fashioned way, that's why it didn't work out. If for the sake of proper competition we forced it on the players it would work flawlessly. And it is as easy as that. If you wanna play with your friends play a funner or get on their rating level and be lucky to meet them in match making.

[TheKomodo]

darKz, my point is, if we forced it the way WA is right now, we'd get nowhere... Timezones and personal commitments...

[darKz]

I'm only saying there are ways to make the league more competitive than it is right now, so my question is: Is TUS a league that wants to find out who the best player of this game is (the point of a league in the first place) or is TUS a league that does whatever the majority of people want? It's a question that needs to be answered by you MonkeyIsland, before this discussion can come to a proper result. This is the exact reason why kings, presidents and other people with a lot of power exist, to make important decisions for their citizens. Just polls won't get us anywhere.

[TheKomodo]

I'm only saying there are ways to make the league more competitive than it is right now, so my question is: Is TUS a league that wants to find out who the best player of this game is (the point of a league in the first place)

To be honest, I have never looked at WA in that way, i'll try my best to explain why...

When I got into WACL the 3 main schemes were Roper / BnG / Elite. No one was an expert at all 3, but together clans were formed with different players to cover all schemes.

At this time I was not interested in BnG or Elite, only Ropers & Warmers, I was not interested in who was the best all round player, all I wanted to do was play the thing I enjoy most, with friendly people of similar interests, in a competitive League and do the best I possibly could.

And nothing has changed, quite frankly... I don't care for TTRR/Elite/T17/Shoppa/WxW, but I love the adrenalin rush of playing Roper/BnG/Hysteria with players who share equal passion, and doing my best to win as much as possible.

I don't play this league to see who the best player is, I don't care who the best player is, I just want to be the best I can be and do the best I can do while having fun and a laugh at the same time, and TuS provides this.

There is nothing wrong with the Hysteria scheme, by the definition of the word "competitive", it is valid.

Just because some players take winning so seriously and they have no sense of class/dignity or style, and they choose to play Hysteria in a way that they can get the ending advantage as fast as possible does not make it lame, it's a choice, but it is not a flaw.

You can do the same thing in other schemes, most BnG players play with some respect and throw variety of shots, don't do repeats etc, some people notch and repeat the easiest shots because they want to win so much. In TTRR if player who is 1st doesn't finish all 3 worms and the last worm of the 2nd player can go half his usual speed to win, but it doesn't always happen, it's a small percentage. In T17 although there is alot of luck no one can argue that for the sake of it, shit happens and you can get extremely lucky towards the end of a game relying on what comes in the crate if you get SD wep or not. The list goes on man...

But when it comes down to it, every single scheme in Classic is fine the way it is, we do have a pretty accurate example of the best overall players, who consistently make and do well in playoffs, and we also have accurate individual scheme standings.

Just be happy with the parts you enjoy, I honestly think if TuS was ran the way you guys are talking about being "competitive" and whatnot, it wouldn't last long.

For me Hysteria is a savior to WA, it brings in so much activity and competition

[Husk]

Komo, that's like saying "there's air pollution from other sources anyway so why shouldn't we create more coal-fired power plants?" - it's just making things worse to think that way.

Solving the issue you're talking about is pretty easy (apart from the coding work, I don't know about that): No more searching for TUS games on AG; instead use a "match making" button on TUS that pairs you with a player as close as possible to your own (overall) rating, that's how it works for a dozen other competitively played games as well.

No it isn't like saying that, this is a game, not poison that kills.

It isn't easy, or after nearly 14 years, we would have done it by now, and it isn't coding that is the problem, it's being a very small community with vastly different timezones while all at school/studying/working/the wife, or if you are lalo, puta la wena wea or something...

if the system can't find an opponent of the same skill level for u right away, it could search from a wider rating range

https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/tus-discussion/matchmaking-18603/

[Free]

Sense of class/dignity/style is always a matter of opinion, it has nothing to do with an actual scheme flaw(s). What the f@#! is wrong having a with "winning" mentality, it doesn't automatically count out the "fun" factor as you seem to think Komo.

"I swear man if Hyst gets removed" Lol man.

Classic schemes ain't all "fine" from competitive point(s) of view on Classic, but Hysteria deffo has the most problems, hence it gets brought up the most. Just the simple fact Intermediate still ain't part of Classic, shows how little NEEDED changes gets done on classic.

[TheKomodo]

Free, what exactly is a problem? You keep saying, flaws, problems, errors, influx in the space time continuum... Where is it gonna end?

These "things" are not flaws, or problems, or errors.

The only word I can think of to describe these things, plopping 1st worms, darksiding etc, as cheap, just like throwing only 4s nades in BnG, or roping in slow-mo with your last worm in TTRR, or some people's opinion hiding on top in a Roper once you get a comfortable lead.

I can safely bet both my testicles with the right "winning mentality" ANYONE with a fully abled body, and a fully working brain, could focus on Hysteria and reach a win ratio of 80%+. Heck, i'll even throw in my scrotum...

Hysteria IS a competitive scheme, more than enough so, and fits perfectly into TuS and the way TuS runs, why can't you understand that?

The only way I see bringing Intermediate into Classic, would be to replace Elite with Intermediate, the schemes have too many similarities.

[darKz]

So you're saying Elite and Intermediate are "too similar", now I know why you can't see the points a lot of people made about Hysteria, you seem to just lack some general understanding. But I don't blame you. Everyone who played both Elite and Inter at a decently high level (Mablak, Random00, coste, nappy, heck even I played Inter for a while) knows that there's a huge difference in strategy and overall gameplay. Random placement vs teleports, worm selects vs no worm selects, 8 worms vs 4 worms, 1 hp sudden death vs "regular" sudden death. They're very similar alright.

I'm done arguing, we're getting way off topic anyway. Just gonna wait for something to happen. Or not to happen. It's not in my hands.

[Doubletime]

"There is nothing wrong with the Hysteria scheme, by the definition of the word "competitive", it is valid. "

Stop talking slack and prove it then...If you or anyone else can meet the challenge i posted and get 50 wins in a row then fine it is competitive from an objective viewpoint.

From a subjective viewpoint the game is very unfair. First of all what is so competitive with plopping your'e own worms n the start for worm select advantage ? Darksiding becomes extremlyeasy in hysteria because the worms are so incapable of doing anythign in 1 second.. Very often the games will linger on as one player has but 1 worm left..Where is the fun in that ? You can darkside in elite to but you have 20 seconds to do something in elite..You have greatly enhanced possibility to teleport somewhere/use rope/homing/airstrike/kami or something else in order to counter darksiders. You have a whole lot of choices and possibillities.

In BnG an aimbot can hit the opponent at anytime (Otherwise it counts as darksiding) What makes BnG interesting is our imperfections that prevent us from always hitting spot on. So eventhough i dislike BnG i will have to admit that it is a competitive scheme.

Hysteria was never meant for competitive gameplay..It was meant for funners and in a funner hysteria serves it's purpose..If the players are not interested in winning at every cost then they will not play lame.. But in a leauge when the players fight with blood and tears to win then it is another story and it will zap the fun away from the game..

So competitive hysteria is not fun...There are not enough skill elements involved....The playing field is to even in short...It is easy for a noob to just hide for 10 minutes or so...And then wait untill their less patient opponent exposes themselve.

Intermidiate is vastly diffrent from Elite you fool ! I would say that a combination of both would be the way worms is meant to be as in elite it can be hard to hit the foe well in merely 20 seconds but in intermidiate you got 45 seconds/WS..So Intermidiate is lightside favoured while Elite darkside favoured so mixing them for a balanced scheme would be interesting...

[TheKomodo]

now I know why you can't see the points a lot of people made about Hysteria, you seem to just lack some general understanding.

I really hope you are talking to yourself here, cuz it ain't me.

They share too many similarities:


similarities

sim·i·lar·i·ty
[sim-uh-lar-i-tee]
1.
the state of being similar; likeness; resemblance.

T17/Elite
BnG/Hysteria
WxW/TTRR
Shoppa/Roper

Here we have 2 of each "category" (the way I think of it in my head).

Hence why I said take away Elite and replace with Intermediate because they share alot of similarities, if you added Intermediate and took away Hysteria, then the "strategic" thinkers would be at an advantage with the picking system.

I did not say they are exactly the same you plum ! f@#!ing learn to read or something, and pick up a dictionary and learn what certain words mean...

Getting a bit annoyed with the level of stupidity on here at times...


Seriously man, you think I don't realise how different elite/intermediate is? It's same like BnG/Hysteria, but still they share alot of similarities.

[Doubletime]

now I know why you can't see the points a lot of people made about Hysteria, you seem to just lack some general understanding.

I really hope you are talking to yourself here, cuz it ain't me.

They share too many similarities:


similarities

sim·i·lar·i·ty
[sim-uh-lar-i-tee]
1.
the state of being similar; likeness; resemblance.

T17/Elite
BnG/Hysteria
WxW/TTRR
Shoppa/Roper

Here we have 2 of each "category" (the way I think of it in my head).

Hence why I said take away Elite and replace with Intermediate because they share alot of similarities, if you added Intermediate and took away Hysteria, then the "strategic" thinkers would be at an advantage with the picking system.

I did not say they are exactly the same you plum ! f@#!ing learn to read or something, and pick up a dictionary and learn what certain words mean...

Getting a bit annoyed with the level of stupidity on here at times...

Are you doing this on purpose ?`Elite and intermidiate Luckless are NOT simmiliar..Eventhough the same weopens are used..The same health are bestowed for every worm.

Many people who disslike intermidiate like Elite....And many others strongly feel like intermidiate is the vastly superior scheme of the 2.

Elite=Darkside

Intermidiate Luckless=Lightside

This is propably the best way to explain this to someone like you.For example there are many simmilarities between whine sorts..And they may be brewed using almost the same method..Yet they may be very diffrent in taste and function.. I could easily say that 2 wines that are brewed the same way are " too simmiliar " because i do not know much about whine.. While a whine expert may rightfully view them as radically diffrent.

Playing intermidiate and Elite competitively is a vastly diffrent experience..In inter it is far more important to know how to kill a group of worms as you will rarely kill more than 1 enemy worm in one sweep while playing elite.. In Intermidiate starting is often a far greater advantage than it is in Elite..iIntermidiate requires alot of wisdom about how the weopens function..While Elite requires quick descissions and more BnG while intermidiate rarely demands bng.

Intermidiate requires more patience than Elite does. Also because of the 3 WS that are availible to players the strategy in Elite and Intermidiate are diffrent since you know what worm will mvoe in Elite you can make a strategy faster...But you have less time to think. In intermidiate you must make sure that the enemy can not cause to much dammage and protect your'e own worms .

No rope knock vs Rope knock brings a radical diffrence....In intermidiate you can kill worms by ropeknocking them. You can rope knmock your'e own worms into safety and pile enemy worms up. In elite you can not pile worms in that way and therefore you are less powerfull and that makes it easier to protect your'e own worm in Elite as you know that they can not ropeknock you off so they can bat you in the water.

Manuel placement vs Random palcement also makes a huge diffrence... Being able to kill atleast 1 worm in the first turn in Intermidiate is very common while rare in Elite as playess will try to place their worms so they can not be innitially killed.

Lack of mobillity vs Almost divine mobillity makes a huge diffrence..In elite you have 20 seconds/2 weak ropes/No jetpack...In intermidiate you have 45 seconds/5 stronger ropes/Jetpack/Low gravity.. IN almost any open map you can take your'e selves from point A to point B and attack unless digging is required..Especially with WS so hiding is much harder in Intermidiate.. In elite you are very limited and trying to attack enemy worms with 2 rope swings is a very risk choice..In short you are very limited in your'e options in Elite compared to Intermidiate. Instant mines also adds to make Elite much harder for those who wishes to traverse large areas.

Playing elite/intermidiate to win are 2 radically diffrent experiences... ANd both of them have very little luck in them (Provided the intermidiate is set to luckless). So intermidiate is unlike hysteria a competitive scheme that needs to be added..

Sincerly...

/Orville " Doubletime " Sebastian Nordström

[darKz]

Yeah keep it coming Dave, that's exactly what you're good at - drag down discussions to kindergarten level and randomly start to insult people. Maybe you should start seeing your psychatrist again.

I'm tired of answering to your pseudo intellectual excrements now, have a good day sir. 

[Doubletime]

Yeah keep it coming Dave, that's exactly what you're good at - drag down discussions to kindergarten level and randomly start to insult people. Maybe you should start seeing your psychatrist again.

I'm tired of answering to your pseudo intellectual excrements now, have a good day sir. 

For writing such an excellent point i feel that you deserve a reward..

+1 Darkz

[TheKomodo]

Yeah keep it coming Dave, that's exactly what you're good at - drag down discussions to kindergarten level and randomly start to insult people. Maybe you should start seeing your psychatrist again.

I'm tired of answering to your pseudo intellectual excrements now, have a good day sir. 

I ain't the only one to get frustrated at this thread, so don't victimise just me, I don't see you mentioning this to Janu, or anyone else who was throwing "insults", or can't you think of a counter arguement?

Don't give up, just because I get a bit frustrated, you know I mean no harm i'm just a bit frustrated and I say things like that so you realise this, I wanna see this through to the end.

DT - Nothing you just said has anything to do with the point I am trying to make, so i'll just forget about getting involved in a debate with you.