we cant just do it like that, if we remove hyst now, tomorrow there will be 20 topics about removing shopper, roper, t17, bng and any other scheme somebody dont likeshopper, roper, t17, bng and any other, is classic schemes, have more than 10 years old, hysteria is a f@#!ing stupid scheme that born some 3 or 4 years ago.
How the f@#! you guys dont realize that Hyst is the most bullshit scheme default league has ever seen?
We have Aerial, do something about this already. Its not even worth of discussion. Jesus f@#!ing christ.
Worst thing to happen to competitive worming.
How the f@#! you guys dont realize that Hyst is the most bullshit scheme default league has ever seen?
We have Aerial, do something about this already. Its not even worth of discussion. Jesus f@#!ing christ.
Worst thing to happen to competitive worming.
as mastermind and important promotor of this game u really should sound a bit more professional ;D
when it comes to aerial, dont you think this scheme would need some hardcore tweaks if you want to add it into classic? come on lol, random placements and only 1 teleport and also highly luck based with crates who can decide a game coming out of nothing., hardcore boom weapons availlable at second turn.
i would rather go for 3 sec scheme of coste. way more options to come back if your start positions is kinda f@#!ed. and also more weapons u need to handle.
You're like 2 years late Free. It's already been said a hundred times but nobody ever listens. :D The scheme is too popular among lesser skilled players so MI doesn't want to remove it.
You're like 2 years late Free. It's already been said a hundred times but nobody ever listens. :D The scheme is too popular among lesser skilled players so MI doesn't want to remove it.
I know, its never too late to wake up though. 3s can be just as popular and actually serve us competitive players. Scheme has potential but at its current state its such bullshit.
D1 its not just about TUS anyone if not hyst, because it can be forced to be played on PO
I agree, kick hysteria, it has never used to be classic scheme (it didn't exist, but still)
And no aerial (what??), I have never played this shit. Just remove hysteria and back to classic schemes as it used to be for years. Hysteria is funny scheme but only in funners, in league it's lucky and irritiating scheme, have you noticed that hysteria always pick weaker player? Why? Because it's lucky scheme, no skill.
It's always the same story, one worm is dead, then telecow, then reapeat and there stay 2 worms on area and shots for 10 minutes. IT'S BORING.
Maciej explain how is it noob and luck scheme?
I bet the most of you Hyst haters can't do a Jet + LG + Fly + FirePunch, or even a Jet + LG + Zook, then you start to blame the scheme because you are slower lol, learn it.
lol this is off-topic.
We have the same chances to win in TTRR and Hyst, don't throw results, you may don't know but I've improved.
hysteria games is uberpointless, you can suicide, attack your own worms, just skip turns.. its almost doesnt affect final result, but then, 1v1 worm or 2v1 starts
Its not smart to talk like that as a promoter. I know you're not a douche, Free. If you delete Hysteria from classic league, general activity will decrease. You know that Hysteria is a good scheme to get in touch with worms, like Shopper. Beginners dont get warm with "pro schemes" so Hysteria can open the way for many newcomers.
Hysteria helps community growing! :)
The scheme has been pretty much accepted since 2007/2008 as a ground scheme in leagues, why change it now six years later? I'm not a fan of the scheme and from time to time when playing I can't help myself wishing that Run was hit by a car the day before he created it. But SPW makes some good points, removing the scheme would not benefit the community and is more lead by personal preferences imo
when I get on hysteria deeper, I understand that all that going before last minutes of hysteria games is uberpointless, you can suicide, attack your own worms, just skip turns.. its almost doesnt affect final result, but then, 1v1 worm or 2v1 starts, and game become pretty intresting, alot of tactical moves, fighting for hides, nade/zook skills, every hp is important.
There is feeling on W:A in scheme such as elite, kaos, t17, bng, when you feel how hard to play versus top players, you cant do anything, all worms is stuck and you are out of ideas, while with newcomers you feel yourself comfortable and doing whatever you want. There is no such thing on inter or roper but its on touch in hyst
How the f@#! you guys dont realize that Hyst is the most bullshit scheme default league has ever seen?
We have Aerial, do something about this already. Its not even worth of discussion. Jesus f@#!ing christ.
Worst thing to happen to competitive worming.
It's already been said a hundred times but nobody ever listens. :D The scheme is too popular among lesser skilled players so MI doesn't want to remove it.
No Sniper, if you get skill in ttrr you win, but if you get skill in hysteria (that's uber mega pro jp-lg-fly-fp), you still can lose against me near 50% of the games....
The only thing I don't like about Hysteria, are the selfish cheating girlfriend-less plebs who use macros for stupid jet trick shots, and they try and deny it too...
But thankfully this usually only happens in funners.
No Sniper, if you get skill in ttrr you win, but if you get skill in hysteria (that's uber mega pro jp-lg-fly-fp), you still can lose against me near 50% of the games....
lmfao !!
If u play 15 hysterias (season limit) with Kaleu or me (or some1 better than us) so it's 15-0 for us man :P
Lesser skilled players? You couldn't beat the top Hysteria players in a best of even if you trained for a month, and you are a VERY experienced/skilled BnG player, and all-round.
No Sniper, if you get skill in ttrr you win, but if you get skill in hysteria (that's uber mega pro jp-lg-fly-fp), you still can lose against me near 50% of the games....
lmfao !!
If u play 15 hysterias (season limit) with Kaleu or me (or some1 better than us) so it's 15-0 for us man :P
Sure chelsea, sure. I could beat you in every scheme easy, even in comet dodgings. Why do you avoid playing league with me, and keep saying that only scheme you beat me in is shopper? (which you have lost afterall too...)
You just suck overall and I don't care about you, 7-year-old newbie. It's sad to be still noob after these all years lost on playing. Don't you feel sad? People come, people go, and they are still better than you, lmao.
No Sniper, if you get skill in ttrr you win, but if you get skill in hysteria (that's uber mega pro jp-lg-fly-fp), you still can lose against me near 50% of the games....
lmfao !!
If u play 15 hysterias (season limit) with Kaleu or me (or some1 better than us) so it's 15-0 for us man :P
Sure chelsea, sure. I could beat you in every scheme easy, even in comet dodgings. Why do you avoid playing league with me, and keep saying that only scheme you beat me in is shopper? (which you have lost afterall too...)
You just suck overall and I don't care about you, 7-year-old newbie. It's sad to be still noob after these all years lost on playing. Don't you feel sad? People come, people go, and they are still better than you, lmao.
hsAUhsuAHs I smell a warning coming =D=D=D
for personal insulting mate =)
Lesser skilled players? You couldn't beat the top Hysteria players in a best of even if you trained for a month, and you are a VERY experienced/skilled BnG player, and all-round.
I'd totally take this challenge if I had the time to actually play W:A for a month. The scheme is very simple, there's not much to know about it.
That's your opinion Dave, definitely not a fact. ;)
This thread is going absolutely nowhere again. Who would've thought.
...but who the f@#! wants to watch some side zooking bullshit scheme where killing ur own worms/dying is most often useful.
Komo threatening to hack TUS,
Guess you are right Free.
*just played Chelsea*
So sacrificing 80hp worms is the way to go.
Btw, this works in shopper too, plop your very first worm and you can pile all game. => 90% chance at win.
So sacrificing 80hp worms is the way to go.
Btw, this works in shopper too, plop your very first worm and you can pile all game. => 90% chance at win.
So sacrificing 80hp worms is the way to go.
Btw, this works in shopper too, plop your very first worm and you can pile all game. => 90% chance at win.
I'd like to see games where this works in general. 90% is a big number to throw in, but I can see the idea behind it.
Random00, Gabriel, Casso.. Kaleu.. Phanton xD
So sacrificing 80hp worms is the way to go.
Btw, this works in shopper too, plop your very first worm and you can pile all game. => 90% chance at win.
I'd like to see games where this works in general. 90% is a big number to throw in, but I can see the idea behind it.
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-10476/
What the hell do you suggest? Replace aerial to hyst ? i hate aerial more than hyst... imo, not hyst, not aerial cant be in league
Free, repeat after me: "TUS anyone? I will only play if you don't pick hysteria."
Agree before the game, though. Probably best to do it in the game lobby, so then at least you have a log to show for.
Think how competitively played hysteria looks to the outsiders eyes, would he ever want to play a game where he thinks he would die of boredom?
Free, repeat after me: "TUS anyone? I will only play if you don't pick hysteria."
Agree before the game, though. Probably best to do it in the game lobby, so then at least you have a log to show for.
Idem.
There's no point talking to me?
i hate elite beeing played without allowing ropeknocks, which causes players taking absurd hides where they would be punished in any other scheme. i challenge free, if MI agreees, gimme 1-2 weeks and we play 10 games, if I get over 40% winning ratio, Elite gets modified, I think it's fair enough argument that the scheme is flawed.
Also, could someone grab the threads/poll where Hysteria was voted as default league scheme? I don't remember coming across anything like this and was like what the f@#! when I saw it added.
well so far i only know people who were falling asleep in bng clanners, not in hysteria ;DThis reminds of a clanner we had past 2 am. I had been sitting on a bench for an hour then I was supposed to play Team17. My both worms died before I could make a single turn :D.
Change difficult in TUS? Are you kidding me? Just because you're not getting your way here? Do you have any idea what MI's been adding and changing to TUS because the community wants it?
I don't think I've seen any league where this many changes have happened because of the community's wishes, for good or for bad.
Also, could someone grab the threads/poll where Hysteria was voted as default league scheme? I don't remember coming across anything like this and was like what the f@#! when I saw it added.
I found the thread for clan league playoffs season 1 (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/leagues-playoffs/clan-league-playoffs-season-1-roh-vs-cf-162/msg1876/#msg1876) (Jan '09) where SPW quoted the rules and Hysteria was already mentioned in them. I'm not sure if there was a poll or something earlier, I really can't remember either.
Edit: I found the thread (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/leagues-general/hysteria-61/). A stunning 14 people voted for it with 11 against it. Guess that's all it took. :D
And it's giving a chance for new players to win some game vs pros and that is great motivation to continue to play worms..
And it's giving a chance for new players to win some game vs pros and that is great motivation to continue to play worms..
But that's working against the whole concept of competition.
Wasn't classic league supposed to be the league where the best player stands on top? I don't see how Hysteria contributes in finding out who's the best overall player. It's a scheme someone who's decent at other schemes can learn in just a few days, maybe even hours. Try learning TTRR or Elite, it'll take you months or maybe even years to play these schemes at the highest possible competitive level. These schemes have the right to exist in classic league, Hysteria certainly doesn't.
Where's the problem in just moving it to a different league? Aren't we all happy then?
Franz suggested /teststuff to disable notching, but the rule needs to be forced first.
OMG You guys got really pissed by losing that PO lol take it easy.
Free i really disagree with this topic... I play all schemes in Classic league and Hysteria is my favourite, BUT i do not participate in HAL because i dont like aeriel, but if Hysteria was removed the only way i could play a Hysteria League game would be to play in HAL and that would be very stupid participating in a league where i only play 1 of the 2 schemes...
Just leave classic how it is, its working fine and alot of people pick hysteria check the stats! just because you dont like it dont try ruin it for the rest of us. Your being sour get over it.
And if you didnt already know Hysteria was most played scheme for last 13seasons.... its what the people want! https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/seasons-info/
OMG You guys got really pissed by losing that PO lol take it easy.
What the hell do you suggest? Replace aerial to hyst ? i hate aerial more than hyst... imo, not hyst, not aerial cant be in league
you should play more and get in touch what pisses people off in top competitive level of gaming on some schemes.
But that's working against the whole concept of competition.
Wasn't classic league supposed to be the league where the best player stands on top? I don't see how Hysteria contributes in finding out who's the best overall player. It's a scheme someone who's decent at other schemes can learn in just a few days, maybe even hours. Try learning TTRR or Elite, it'll take you months or maybe even years to play these schemes at the highest possible competitive level. These schemes have the right to exist in classic league, Hysteria certainly doesn't.
That, or change Hysteria to be 1 worms vs 1 worm.
I umm.. suck at Hysteria?
The thing about sentences is that you have to read them entirely to understand what they mean, not just the part you like or don't like.
Won't even bother with Komo, ur just stating ur opinions and feelings, some of us actually here are trying to argue WHY Hysteria doesn't belong to classic scheme as it is. Btw, ur ridicilous by trying to compare how long it would take to master ttrr/elite compared to hysteria for someone who would just start WA. Years of learning compared to a month(s) even for someone who just starts WA for the first time.
Barman beats me 10-0 in Chute Race, every scheme needs time to learn it. There is more logical place for hysteria in TUS, like for Kaos and other stuff, but what a surprice this discission is going nowhere as always xD
Won't even bother with Komo, ur just stating ur opinions and feelings, some of us actually here are trying to argue WHY Hysteria doesn't belong to classic scheme as it is. Btw, ur ridicilous by trying to compare how long it would take to master ttrr/elite compared to hysteria for someone who would just start WA. Years of learning compared to a month(s) even for someone who just starts WA for the first time.
Ok, you are trying to argue why it shouldn't be in Classic, where I am arguing why it should, what is the difference? What gives your opinions more value over mine?
What I said about what it takes to become a top player, is a fact, it is not an opinion, Casso etc wouldn't be so good at Hysteria if they hadn't spent years playing WA practising their BnG skills, it took ME years with alot of the time 16 hours a day @ BnG to become as good as I am, it took Mablak years to master TTRR, same with other top players in other schemes...
From someone who has never played WA before, it will take roughly the same time to become a top player for any chosen "speciality" scheme, whether it is Elite or Hysteria.
If you even try to argue against what I just said, I swear i'll probably die laughing...
Edit: Take the test and play against Casso 10 games, I will be surprised if you even win 1, the guy beat me like 8-1 in Hysteria, granted, I didn't play so well, but 8-1 and at the time I was dominating TRL:Hysteria by quite a large margin.
I'm arguing with REASONS, your arguing with just your feelings and opinions.
How the f@#! you guys dont realize that Hyst is the most bullshit scheme default league has ever seen?
We have Aerial, do something about this already. Its not even worth of discussion. Jesus f@#!ing christ.
Worst thing to happen to competitive worming.
If hyst wasn't competitive, Casso wouldn't be dominating it. Simple as that. You can argue all you want about the type of play. I don't like competitive hysteria as its played, but it it's a fact that it is competitive. Until you inderstand that, Free, there's no point talking to you.+
If people dislike Aerial but like Hyst, just give them their hysteria league, It's probably what the majority wants anyway, play their hysterias without getting owned in proper skilled schemes because of both players get to pick 1 scheme.= we are done.
I'm arguing with REASONS, your arguing with just your feelings and opinions.
I really wouldn't want to show a effectively played Hysteria game as promotional purposes to general audience.
D1, you obviously didn't get the general message behind my idea, Random00 is one of the best overall players anyway so he doesn't get owned in proper skilled schemes. What I was trying to say that most of people that like hysteria (majority of beginners) would probably be more happy with just Hysteria league without getting owned by good all-rounders, your really f@#!ing the dot here D1. I took a quick look at maverick's played games also, mostly noob bashing.
wait! Easy is a clear example of real stupidity. it's not about hyst auhuah
I like hyst, I hate t17 and it's also luckier then hyst in my opinion. And also, what about shoppa? and crates? What aboiut wxw crates? the only fair WxW was mine, the WxW bunga ( with not random weapons, but still wepons, the same principe as in elite).
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-125068/
that's just one example of stupidness of this scheme. Easy ploped/killed his 3 health worms to get advantage and telecow me each turn. Idiotic! You kill your worms to win a game. So tactic is who faster kill his worms to get advantage, if you call it tactic, I call you idiot. Where's fun? Where's fight?
Think for example about roper, would you accept clanner in which one of the player from team in his first turn just take crate and... surrender? Nothing against rules, same in hysteria, but in hysteria he doesn't have to surrender because plop is possible. For example I play clanner with less skilled roper because no more players online, and I say him to surrender, so we will get advantage. That's logical, but where's the spirit of the game?
I have seen hysteria where one player lost his 3 worms in first round and still was in the game (ironically got advantage...)
I found the thread for clan league playoffs season 1 (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/leagues-playoffs/clan-league-playoffs-season-1-roh-vs-cf-162/msg1876/#msg1876) (Jan '09) where SPW quoted the rules and Hysteria was already mentioned in them. I'm not sure if there was a poll or something earlier, I really can't remember either.Against is now leading 17-16 lol :P looks like people are voting now.
Edit: I found the thread (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/leagues-general/hysteria-61/). A stunning 14 people voted for it with 11 against it. Guess that's all it took. :D
You still will have lost then, though.
I didn't say I will win only because it's too lucky scheme to talk about being sure. ;)
but you must agree with me, that hysteria is ONLY scheme in which you can do lots of mistakes and you are still in game, while in every other scheme, even in shopper, wxw or t17, 2-3 mistakes make you unable to win (of course if your opponent doesn't make them too)
but you must agree with me, that hysteria is ONLY scheme in which you can do lots of mistakes and you are still in game, while in every other scheme, even in shopper, wxw or t17, 2-3 mistakes make you unable to win (of course if your opponent doesn't make them too)
and think that yu against Casso you will be never in game uhauhauha
this discussion is sensless.
this discussion is sensless.
I agree. Let's just say DarkOne won this argument. :)
Free, the thread about Hysteria on TUS is way too old. You shouldn't look at it that way. Those times TUS had other problems like getting community's acceptance/approval. The leagues were so young and we were trying hard to deliver something to satisfy the majority of the community. Hysteria got fit in nicely while Intermediate got us into even more trouble. Some popular comments like "TUS is shit, they allow Intermediate!" or some point of views like this (https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-577/) game's chat.
A lot of threads about Hysteria got created since, but in my point of view, most started out of anger of losing. Hysteria is the most played scheme on TUS. Not one of the most, it is THE most played scheme. 17,191 single games as I type this. (followed by Roper 12,235 and TTRR 11,754, check seasons info for full statistics). Removing the most popular scheme from classic league is not that easy, even if you prove that the scheme is flawed.
Personally I don't think Hysteria is flawed. A flaw in a scheme is what makes the skill level lower, or allows noobs to beat pros more often. I fail to see such flaw in Hysteria. Our great Hysteria players (off the top of my head) are Gabriel, Casso, Random00. I don't think a noob could have ANY chance against these players.
I am really tired of engaging into scheme fights. We mostly like to argue theoretically. If someone is up for it and challenge one of top hysteria players and achieve like 40-50% winning percentages against these players, then I think it will open our eyes about how flawed this scheme is and helps us take further actions.
Free! Sign me in on that! I just played my first Clanner in Hyst today, it was literally my 2nd Hyst of all time so I would qualify as a "noob". I'd be interested in playing vs the pros of Hyst. If it's for the good of TUS I will play this abomination a few times 1v1. :D
Why doesn't anyone see the sentences where I suggest that let hysteria have its own league or lets modify the scheme?
Free! Sign me in on that! I just played my first Clanner in Hyst today, it was literally my 2nd Hyst of all time so I would qualify as a "noob". I'd be interested in playing vs the pros of Hyst. If it's for the good of TUS I will play this abomination a few times 1v1. :D
Anubis, I think you would actually do well in the challenge, you have a Mablak-like mentality when it comes to dedicating oneself to things like this.
I haven't watched the game yet, but I am sure you won because both you and barman are exceptional BnG players, and very experienced at doing the right thing at the right time.Why doesn't anyone see the sentences where I suggest that let hysteria have its own league or lets modify the scheme?
Because we don't want to.
What do you want? Only the schemes you are very good at left in Classic?
We have 8 schemes, and I have personally never seen such a fair and balanced League, TuS imo is the best League WA ever had, and probably ever will have, and for me the balance of the Classic League schemes is a reason for that.
Answer me Free, go somewhere! xD 11 pages, let's a conclusion goddamnit
Oh so now you speak for the whole majority.
I was talking also about the poll... I can see only you and Macjieji so motivated, nor other wormers...
Oh so now you speak for the whole majority.
No, they have already spoke for themselves, I was just answering your question man...
I only say it, because of the amount of times people just like yourself have posted anti-hysteria thread, and failed miserably.
I was talking also about the poll... I can see only you and Macjieji so motivated, nor other wormers...
What poll?
I wonder what the hell is so difficult to understand about hyst being the most popular scheme in this league. Still you want to create a poll and do a challenge to prove something. Prove what? Hyst is already the most popular, there is no need to prove that it is. This is getting really stupid...
I wonder what the hell is so difficult to understand about hyst being the most popular scheme in this league. Still you want to create a poll and do a challenge to prove something. Prove what? Hyst is already the most popular, there is no need to prove that it is. This is getting really stupid...
lol nice comparison of a game played 2 years ago, I think Casso was not even know as great hyst player.
lol and I'm sure that if I pick Dulek, Mablak, Statik or Barman (sorry I will not mention the full list) in ttrr you wouldn't win more than 1/10 of games. Your 1/2 sucks near the 1/10 and that's the proof.
Still if newbie how you call me can beat that uber pro like Casso even in 30-40% of the games (so far we played only 1 game won by me) isn't that proof that the person isn't that pro or scheme is just lucky? Come on, you are so brainless.
I tried to not write anything in this discussion but since I have been pulled in I feel obliged to answer.
I think that these things don't solve anything but since Free is asking insistently to start the challenge I gladly accept.
I'll show you that to be competitive in Hysteria you need years of experience because it's not only about telecow, it's about tactic, tricks and skills... these things take years (just ask Komo if you doesn't believe me).
I also think that Hysteria can help this Game/Community to grow; for example in my case the first game that I played online was Hysteria and I started to love this game playing it. After about 1 year I discovered this Community.
I will play 10 games against you and I'm sure you won't win more than 1/2 games. would happen the same thing if at my place would play Random, Gabriel, Artic, Crash, Komo, Kaleu, Almog, SPW, Chelsea, Phanton, fenrys, Krezo and many others (sorry I can't write the full list xD)
P.S Sorry if my english isn't perfect, I hope you understand
I wonder what the hell is so difficult to understand about hyst being the most popular scheme in this league. Still you want to create a poll and do a challenge to prove something. Prove what? Hyst is already the most popular, there is no need to prove that it is. This is getting really stupid...
Calm down man, I m an hyst supporter...
We are in democracy, so let's vote.
U seriously think that effectively played (piling+side zooks/force sd, 1-shot win) is a good scheme to play in classic league? It's so f@#!ing boring and lame looking, that's why we have so many anti-hysteria threads.
Calm down man, I m an hyst supporter...
We are in democracy, so let's vote.
I tried to not write anything in this discussion but since I have been pulled in I feel obliged to answer.
I think that these things don't solve anything but since Free is asking insistently to start the challenge I gladly accept.
I'll show you that to be competitive in Hysteria you need years of experience because it's not only about telecow, it's about tactic, tricks and skills... these things take years (just ask Komo if you doesn't believe me).
I also think that Hysteria can help this Game/Community to grow; for example in my case the first game that I played online was Hysteria and I started to love this game playing it. After about 1 year I discovered this Community.
I will play 10 games against you and I'm sure you won't win more than 1/2 games. would happen the same thing if at my place would play Random, Gabriel, Artic, Crash, Komo, Kaleu, Almog, SPW, Chelsea, Phanton, fenrys, Krezo and many others (sorry I can't write the full list xD)
P.S Sorry if my english isn't perfect, I hope you understand
Ok, so 2 weeks from now on, 10 games total (I hope we wont have to play all of them at once so we can have full concentration) and let's see if I get 40%, as in I win 4 games out of 10. I agree to this ONLY if MI agrees to either modify the scheme or remove it/make own league to it whatever, as long as it doesn't stay in classic as it is. You say it needs years of experience and your considered one of the top players, so MI shouldn't have problems agreeing with this.
The only way I would see a vote like this happen fairly is if every single legit member of TuS votes, not just the "regulars and trolls".
Most of the people who really like Hysteria probably wouldn't even vote.
Ok, so 2 weeks from now on, 10 games total (I hope we wont have to play all of them at once so we can have full concentration) and let's see if I get 40%, as in I win 4 games out of 10. I agree to this ONLY if MI agrees to either modify the scheme or remove it/make own league to it whatever, as long as it doesn't stay in classic as it is. You say it needs years of experience and your considered one of the top players, so MI shouldn't have problems agreeing with this.
Ok, so 2 weeks from now on, 10 games total (I hope we wont have to play all of them at once so we can have full concentration) and let's see if I get 40%, as in I win 4 games out of 10. I agree to this ONLY if MI agrees to either modify the scheme or remove it/make own league to it whatever, as long as it doesn't stay in classic as it is. You say it needs years of experience and your considered one of the top players, so MI shouldn't have problems agreeing with this.
You want to remove the most popular scheme from Classic league, then you must be willing to go to distance. 10 games vs one single player won't do, but it certainly will prove a point. The kind of a point that touches me. There's also Gabriel and many others. (I can't talk for them) If I was in your place and I wanted to prove this point, I'd make a list of great players and try to get a decent winning percentage from each of them. Trying to beat one single player in order to change things around is not the way. Don't bother if that's the highest effort you're willing to do. Nice movie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighter_in_the_Wind) about someone taking the challenge to high skilled ones ;)
But if you manage to pull this, then we'll finally have something to refer to. *An average Hysteria player, took the challenge and beat the high skilled ones.*
In that case, we can start talking about solutions, otherwise it is just like people accuse Intermediate of lucky placements but don't stand a chance vs high skilled players. I'm not interested in theoretical flaws of schemes.
p.s. There's also chance if you train enough, you switch sides lol
I'm not interested in theoretical flaws of schemes.
Why doesn't anyone see the sentences where I suggest that let hysteria have its own league or lets modify the scheme?
Nah D1, don't encourage people to make new schemes, nothing can replace Hysteria, it won't be considered hysteria if it's exced more than 1s turn...
Why doesn't anyone see the sentences where I suggest that let hysteria have its own league or lets modify the scheme?
Wow, dude. I've told you at least 4 times to DO something, which included CREATING AN ALTERNATIVE, HOSTING CUPS/TOURNEYS, HOSTING FUNNERS WITH THIS ALTERNATIVE. Perhaps you will read it if I write in caps?
The alternative could include rules, RS with worm select instead of fixed turn order, random turn order, anything, just make a damn effort.
i dislike hyst too .. but i guess some ppl gonna stop to play tus when hytseria gonna be removed from classic .. gl to find tus then xd
Was about to vote yes, then I saw that message!i dislike hyst too .. but i guess some ppl gonna stop to play tus when hytseria gonna be removed from classic .. gl to find tus then xd
I will stop 100% :P
i dislike hyst too .. but i guess some ppl gonna stop to play tus when hytseria gonna be removed from classic .. gl to find tus then xd
I will stop 100% :P
ban ttrr too, I dont like to play this scheme, I always lose games in this scheme, I dont want to learn dat shit and i dont understand ppl who like this scheme hehauehauheuae ;D ;D ;D
ban ttrr too, I dont like to play this scheme, I always lose games in this scheme, I dont want to learn dat shit and i dont understand ppl who like this scheme hehauehauheuae ;D ;D ;D
ban ttrr too, I dont like to play this scheme, I always lose games in this scheme, I dont want to learn dat shit and i dont understand ppl who like this scheme hehauehauheuae ;D ;D ;D
Hmm, Maciej, but I love luck too 8)
I just don't see any value in hosting bunch of cups or tourneys to get a simple point across, has your hosting done anything to modify HYSTERIA as a classic scheme. No, we got Aerial, which ain't a classic scheme, which imo would be a better scheme for classic than hysteria.
I simply don't see value based on time wasted trying to get the point across[...]
[...]I seee more value trying to approach the situation like this.
I just thought of a new way of voting in schemes into classic or to reevaluate all existing classic schemes. We should vote on all existing classic schemes currently in the league if they are worthy of being in there. Then after we have all the values we figure out the average % a scheme needs to be in Classic scheme, since classic scheme means a lot (high activity and best players) it should be approved not only by 50%+ of the player-base, instead it should be a clear 70-80% (which can be calculated after having all % after the votes on all schemes currently available).
Then, every year or so, the same process should take place to introduce or keep old/new schemes.
Thoughts?
Additional idea: Based on the % we could use HHC's idea and incorporate it and thus a scheme with only 60% approval only counts for 60% of the normal points etc.
Hmm, Maciej, but I love luck too 8)
me too :D
L3G3ND4RY LUCK3R :D
Guys, can you realize that Hysteria is the most played scheme???!!!
Is it a bullshit? I don't think so and not the most of us think this.
If you don't like, it's your business...
People like hysteria in clanner, it's funny and it's one of the scheme most played, there will be a reason!
Buiiiiiiii bubiuiiiiiii
...ELite is a master, I agree with you. That's why there is also a special league for it, TEL.
But only Elite and ttrr in my opinion are at the top. Only these 2.
Shoppa is the scheme with more lucky factor, t17 also..
wxw in the way is now is 80% lucky, wxw between 2 good players is 99% luck with weapons, that's why I proposed another wxw (https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-628/, this should be played in league)
bng, we have too many lamer players to consider at the top.
hysteria, is not so easy as old players can think. Just why? Cause they are losing games against new players that maybe have spent a lot of time playing it? I think having a new scheme is a good compromise to not allow this game to die with us granny guys.
So the conclusion could be, let's play a league with only 2 schemes?! ttrr and elite... Because removing only hyst and let t17 and shoppa and wxw in would be a bullshit too.
And also, as someone as already said, do you guys think to be able to find many clanners or "tus any1" to play removing hysteria or other schemes?" Or do you prefer to play in 20 old school guys and let other 100 wormers out? If you want this, open a new league and go there to play only 4 or 3 schemes you choose, cause most of people is not interested in this.
What is there all to learn in Hysteria? If you mastered BnG, Elite you know 90% of Hysteria, no? Turn Advantage is common in elite, as a long time player you get the feel of rapid Zooka/Nades anyway so the only thing left is using jetpack and infinite Teleports? The difficulty comes from doing something in 1 second? This is a huge skill limiter since it's just 1 second. Once you learned how to move your mouse accurate in Hyst you can do very accurate cross-map teleports. Once you know how far you can move your crosshair in 1 second and still can shoot, that's about it? Oh I managed to lay a mine yesterday and activate it and move it with my jetpack before retreat ended. What else can I learn in Hyst now? What about fairplay? Select jetpack, use jetpack and select xy weapon? Sounds like some people could abuse it with macros.
You're like 2 years late Free. It's already been said a hundred times but nobody ever listens. :D The scheme is too popular among lesser skilled players so MI doesn't want to remove it.:D
I can't believe you made a poll that hysteria should be banned from classic league because of guy who lost PO "because of hysteria" but other 2 schemes lost TOO and didn't complaint about it...
Who is ray? This sounds like a noob name :DYou're like 2 years late Free. It's already been said a hundred times but nobody ever listens. :D The scheme is too popular among lesser skilled players so MI doesn't want to remove it.:D
Remove it. Everyone who said that earlier is right. Everyone who disagrees is wrong. I am Ray, so this must be true.
You don't need the word "The" in front of your name, did you know that? We can put it there in our minds! YOU ARE WASTING IMPORTANT RESOURCES AND CHARACTERS! BE MORE RESPONSIBLE!Who is ray? This sounds like a noob name :DYou're like 2 years late Free. It's already been said a hundred times but nobody ever listens. :D The scheme is too popular among lesser skilled players so MI doesn't want to remove it.:D
Remove it. Everyone who said that earlier is right. Everyone who disagrees is wrong. I am Ray, so this must be true.
"The" is there to differentiate the original gangster walrus from all other would be walrii that have populated wormnet over the years. Who could forget such characters as pinkwalrus, gaywalrus, and j00walrus.You don't need the word "The" in front of your name, did you know that? We can put it there in our minds! YOU ARE WASTING IMPORTANT RESOURCES AND CHARACTERS! BE MORE RESPONSIBLE!Who is ray? This sounds like a noob name :DYou're like 2 years late Free. It's already been said a hundred times but nobody ever listens. :D The scheme is too popular among lesser skilled players so MI doesn't want to remove it.:D
Remove it. Everyone who said that earlier is right. Everyone who disagrees is wrong. I am Ray, so this must be true.
;D :D
What is there all to learn in Hysteria? If you mastered BnG, Elite you know 90% of Hysteria, no? Turn Advantage is common in elite, as a long time player you get the feel of rapid Zooka/Nades anyway so the only thing left is using jetpack and infinite Teleports? The difficulty comes from doing something in 1 second? This is a huge skill limiter since it's just 1 second. Once you learned how to move your mouse accurate in Hyst you can do very accurate cross-map teleports. Once you know how far you can move your crosshair in 1 second and still can shoot, that's about it? Oh I managed to lay a mine yesterday and activate it and move it with my jetpack before retreat ended. What else can I learn in Hyst now? What about fairplay? Select jetpack, use jetpack and select xy weapon? Sounds like some people could abuse it with macros.
I just don't see any value in hosting bunch of cups or tourneys to get a simple point across, has your hosting done anything to modify HYSTERIA as a classic scheme. No, we got Aerial, which ain't a classic scheme, which imo would be a better scheme for classic than hysteria.
Wow, you just literally said that because I did something (hosting a couple of cups), something changed in TUS.I simply don't see value based on time wasted trying to get the point across[...]
And now you say the complete opposite.[...]I seee more value trying to approach the situation like this.
How is it working out for you so far? 15 pages of rambling and the poll says 26 for keeping hysteria and 22 for ditching hysteria so far.
I just don't see any value in hosting bunch of cups or tourneys to get a simple point across, has your hosting done anything to modify HYSTERIA as a classic scheme. No, we got Aerial, which ain't a classic scheme, which imo would be a better scheme for classic than hysteria.
Wow, you just literally said that because I did something (hosting a couple of cups), something changed in TUS.I simply don't see value based on time wasted trying to get the point across[...]
And now you say the complete opposite.[...]I seee more value trying to approach the situation like this.
How is it working out for you so far? 15 pages of rambling and the poll says 26 for keeping hysteria and 22 for ditching hysteria so far.
I dont care about polls (most voters are beginners/average players with not enough experience)
Disclaimer: The following text may cause heart failure for Hysteria fanboys. I won't pay your ambulance fees!
Hysteria got put into classic league after a poll with a 56% majority voting for the scheme. Back then nobody really knew what competitive Hysteria looked like because at that time nobody had played it that way. Now, a good 4 years and numerous complaints by oldschool wormers (who have actually played it, I may add) later the scheme still persists. "Because it's popular".
I won't deny that there's a certain skillset which one needs to stand on top of the Hysteria rankings. However when it comes to the top of the ladder duking it out among each other, there are games in which both players are in a 1vs1 stalemate position where they would hypothetically teleport around the map for all eternity because they both can't get a shot at the other. Usually this cycle is ended by one of the two losing their patience, teleporting to either an open spot where the other player can get a shot at him, or to a spot which provides protection but no chance to actually shoot. In the latter case the other player will just enforce SD so the hidden player will have to teleport to some open place on top eventually. Either way it's a loss-loss situation and could be avoided by just continuing to teleport around in the aforementioned cycle and waiting for the other player to lose patience first.
I don't expect anyone to actually read and understand this but I've seen several situations like this, the scheme is just not suited for high level competitive play.
Random00 is a really good overall player and has this winning mentality, he never gives up. That's part of the reason why he's on top of the Hysteria standings, he lets others do the mistake before he does it himself. And that Maverick guy has a winning percentage that high because he mostly played complete newbies who lack general knowledge about the game.
I won't bother looking up games or providing any other kind of proof btw, my words make perfect sense if you just let them get through to you and if you've played the scheme on a decently high level. Not gonna bother with Komos incoming wall of text either. (Just let this stand as my opinion rather than facts if it makes you happier Komo, it's obviously something only very few people can see.)
lol awesome videoQuoteI dont care about polls (most voters are beginners/average players with not enough experience)
ban ttrr too, I dont like to play this scheme, I always lose games in this scheme, I dont want to learn dat shit and i dont understand ppl who like this scheme hehauehauheuae ;D ;D ;D
so far... hysteria 1-0 Free xD
Currently there's 36.6% against the scheme, which I don't think is an insignificant value. Even if the poll result will say 70% to keep Hysteria and 30% to remove it in the end, what are the ones in charge going to do? It'll still say 30% are unhappy the way it is.
Well said ANO, i'd rather take my chances relying on skill @ shooting opponents in Hysteria than what crates i'll get in a T17 or Roper etc anyday.
However, I like all schemes anyway :) I just don't have time to perfect everything :(
I can't see anything constructive coming out of this thread anymore.
Twisting your words, Free? I literally quoted you, you can look it up. It's not my fault you're not making sense.
MI predicted you'd respond to the results of the poll like this. Well, that and a few other comments that haven't been made yet :) Let's see if those will still come with time, though.I can't see anything constructive coming out of this thread anymore.
Because you discard every constructive comment ever posted if they don't fit your view that Free's opinion is fact.
(most voters are beginners/average players with not enough experience)
I could say the same thing zipper, I'm pissed that you guys only think about the popularity instead the top players wanting to have the most balanced schemes possible.There is the problem here Free, you don't think of the majority but only about yourself. On one side you want to promote this league in order to have lot more new people joining on the other you do the opposite and want to make the league even more elitist (which in fact seems to be wrong since lot of people tell you hyst need skills) by removing the most popular scheme. I don't know when you started playing league game but let's say back in wl days. Would you have liked that hhc remove shopper from the league because it was too luck biased (which with the old scheme involved much more luck).
none of our oldschoolers opinions matter
Free is getting upset because of the simple reason that he is right,
A great solution would be the idea, which I, Husk and possibly some other people have been already talking about, that is:
banning two schemes (1 by each player/clan) before starting playoffs schemes picks for each round.
Then also hysteria lovers could remove another scheme from the pool.
50% of your games are hysteria, 99% of your picks is hysteria. What is the point to play TUS league? Play Hysteria league...
So what, most of my picks is BnG, at least it means this League provides something I enjoy, and something he enjoys...
But before doing such thing, we need to think in a replace for hysteria, there's 4 rope schemes and 4 default schemes I think we can't just delete hysteria...
ShyGuy, sorry but "game mechanics" has nothing to do with what TuS represents, if people don't like it, I suggest making a seperate league for the players who wish to play "flawless" schemes.
ShyGuy, sorry but "game mechanics" has nothing to do with what TuS represents, if people don't like it, I suggest making a seperate league for the players who wish to play "flawless" schemes.
Exactly, TuS the the league to everyone, noob included ! Not for the 2% top players.
How can you sit there and complain about a "flawed scheme" when humans never have been and never will be perfect themselves?
ShyGuy, sorry but "game mechanics" has nothing to do with what TuS represents, if people don't like it, I suggest making a seperate league for the players who wish to play "flawless" schemes.
Every single arguement and point anyone has ever made against Hysteria has been countered by people like myself, MonkeyIsland, DarkOne, Casso, Chelsea etc.
For f@#! sake, it was you people who argued against a new policy in ttrr that would simply ensure the faster wormer in a RACE wins...
I never said the word "perfect" in any of my posts referring to modifying schemes. Ever. This statement completely misses any point I've tried to make.. not even going to bother responding to this in detail even though the implications are pretty stupid.
And on the flip-side, I suggest those who want to play unbalanced schemes and schemes with unnecessary, fixable flaws host casual games on wormnet, play in the free league, play in the rotated league, and actively oppose improvements to the one league that is supposed to determine who the best players are... Oh wait, you guys already do all four of those things.
Because of the 1 second turn time, there is too much to be abused in hysteria that completely defy what a competitive game should be... this has already been mathematically and logically proven in other threads...
He's swedish ::)
As a matter of fact, I did. I was wondering if Free would take the challenge and get 40% win against 3 top hysteria players :)
As a matter of fact, I did. I was wondering if Free would take the challenge and get 40% win against 3 top hysteria players :)
I mean look at Casso's streak, by my understanding, if Hysteria is such a skilled scheme as community thinks, an average player like myself should not even get close to 40% in 2 weeks.
I mean look at Casso's streak, by my understanding, if Hysteria is such a skilled scheme as community thinks, an average player like myself should not even get close to 40% in 2 weeks.
Wasn't the point you're trying to make that hysteria isn't a skilled game?
for anubis:
Because the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many!
I don't know where do you get "1". Any player could have a bad day. I've seen Dario failing in Intermediate or Mablak in TTRR. Trying to get a 40% win versus one player, could have a lucky result, although I haven't seen such result yet.
D1, yeah don't bother.
D1, yeah don't bother.
First thing you've posted I can agree with :P It clearly has no effect to answer with reason.
@ Anubis: the 40% is the reason I asked for alternatives. Simply removing hysteria is giving the 40% their way and simply doing away with the 60%. I supplied an alternative with random turn order, but there was hardly any kind of response to that. HHC's aerial was another alternative, which got its own following, but also not unanimously embraced. Where do we go from here?
BTW: what did you mean by silencing?
majority of potential voters being just the Hyst lovers instead the minority of potential "true competitive all-round" player voters.
is such a big audience that seems to be ignored by TUSYou guys has to pick if either you want a small elitist league for the top 30 players or not ;)
+1 orvili think orvil was just celebrating chaoflux in his last post, phillie.
I mean that Hysteria has been part of the classic league for years even though it is known to be not even close to the acceptance of like elite or rr. You guys expect this issue to be resolved by the community imo. But that won't happen, that will be your job in the end but I think you are ignoring this issue by claiming this slim majority wins this argument because of "democracy".
This is just my viewing point, I have nothing against Hyst in particular, I can accept that it has followers and that it has a place in the league. But there is such a big audience that seems to be ignored by TUS, just think about some more realistic references and think if you could ignore the needs of 40%+ ppl in other situations.
I mean that Hysteria has been part of the classic league for years even though it is known to be not even close to the acceptance of like elite or rr. You guys expect this issue to be resolved by the community imo. But that won't happen, that will be your job in the end but I think you are ignoring this issue by claiming this slim majority wins this argument because of "democracy".
This is just my viewing point, I have nothing against Hyst in particular, I can accept that it has followers and that it has a place in the league. But there is such a big audience that seems to be ignored by TUS, just think about some more realistic references and think if you could ignore the needs of 40%+ ppl in other situations.
If we ignored the needs of 40% of the people, we wouldn't be responding at all in this thread :)
Thing is, plenty of people like hysteria in the main league. Plenty of people don't like schemes like shopper, T17, BnG, WxW but there are no threads about removing those schemes. The problem is gameplay for a lot of people, obviously, so again: alternatives are what we need. Not discussions about ignoring people or reiterating the same stuff that's been said for 21 pages. I'm not hearing any of those, only selfish requests to remove hyst from the classic league.
I'm getting kind of tired of the "only noobs vote for hysteria" argument that keeps popping up, because it denigrates any achievement someone makes in hysteria. You want to know why hysteria seems easy to a lot of people to pick up? Because they learned other schemes first. Skills from elite, BnG, heck, even WxW/roper (last second decision making) gives you tools to make a dent with hysteria.
i think orvil was just celebrating chaoflux in his last post, phillie.
Try to get 50 + wins in tus hysteria by simply playing against whoever wants to play with you in AG..Just like you did when you got that winning streak on BnG.. If you can get 50 wins in a row that way then hysteria is indeed not a scheme dependant on luck (Eventhough it will still be a horribly agonizing experience)
If you can not get 50 + wins ? Then hysteria is not as luckless as you claim......And should be bannished to a seperate leauge..
What do you mean with balance anyways ? I know that hysteria needs to go in order to improve the skill required to prevail in the leauge...I would also think ressurecting intermidiate/luckless back while getting rid of shoppa is a good idea..
Komo, that's like saying "there's air pollution from other sources anyway so why shouldn't we create more coal-fired power plants?" - it's just making things worse to think that way.
Solving the issue you're talking about is pretty easy (apart from the coding work, I don't know about that): No more searching for TUS games on AG; instead use a "match making" button on TUS that pairs you with a player as close as possible to your own (overall) rating, that's how it works for a dozen other competitively played games as well.
I'm only saying there are ways to make the league more competitive than it is right now, so my question is: Is TUS a league that wants to find out who the best player of this game is (the point of a league in the first place)
Komo, that's like saying "there's air pollution from other sources anyway so why shouldn't we create more coal-fired power plants?" - it's just making things worse to think that way.
Solving the issue you're talking about is pretty easy (apart from the coding work, I don't know about that): No more searching for TUS games on AG; instead use a "match making" button on TUS that pairs you with a player as close as possible to your own (overall) rating, that's how it works for a dozen other competitively played games as well.
No it isn't like saying that, this is a game, not poison that kills.
It isn't easy, or after nearly 14 years, we would have done it by now, and it isn't coding that is the problem, it's being a very small community with vastly different timezones while all at school/studying/working/the wife, or if you are lalo, puta la wena wea or something...
now I know why you can't see the points a lot of people made about Hysteria, you seem to just lack some general understanding.
now I know why you can't see the points a lot of people made about Hysteria, you seem to just lack some general understanding.
I really hope you are talking to yourself here, cuz it ain't me.
They share too many similarities:
similarities
sim·i·lar·i·ty
[sim-uh-lar-i-tee]
1.
the state of being similar; likeness; resemblance.
T17/Elite
BnG/Hysteria
WxW/TTRR
Shoppa/Roper
Here we have 2 of each "category" (the way I think of it in my head).
Hence why I said take away Elite and replace with Intermediate because they share alot of similarities, if you added Intermediate and took away Hysteria, then the "strategic" thinkers would be at an advantage with the picking system.
I did not say they are exactly the same you plum ! f@#!ing learn to read or something, and pick up a dictionary and learn what certain words mean...
Getting a bit annoyed with the level of stupidity on here at times...
Yeah keep it coming Dave, that's exactly what you're good at - drag down discussions to kindergarten level and randomly start to insult people. Maybe you should start seeing your psychatrist again.
I'm tired of answering to your pseudo intellectual excrements now, have a good day sir. ::)
Yeah keep it coming Dave, that's exactly what you're good at - drag down discussions to kindergarten level and randomly start to insult people. Maybe you should start seeing your psychatrist again.
I'm tired of answering to your pseudo intellectual excrements now, have a good day sir. ::)
Hence why I said take away Elite and replace with Intermediate because they share alot of similarities, if you added Intermediate and took away Hysteria, then the "strategic" thinkers would be at an advantage with the picking system.
Why does that even matter when playing in a league that is supposed to show who the best overall wormer is? It doesn't... I dismissed this point a while back, please stop using it.
I haven't fully read every new post to this thread. Komo said the league is already so unbalanced so we shouldn't bother trying to fix it... Komo should not be allowed in serious discussions with a comment like that lol
Afterall 5 people who know almost nothing about whine should not be able to outvote 1 person who is a whine expert that travelled france/South Africa/Spain/Germany who is nearly omniviscient when it comes to Alcoholic beverages....Becuase that would be plain stupidity..(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-83K07BtOxCc/UJqvFAIKLUI/AAAAAAAAIec/iKTL7Bvsxak/s640/bbbb6622_InigoMontoya-ThatWord-WhatYouThinkItMeans.jpeg)
We should select the top 19 players who love the game the most/are best at it and then let them vote..
We could base it on results from the classic leauge...
If people could objectively look at the schemes and analyze them without bias and use science and reason, that would be best
It has nothing to do that I want Hysteria removed. I made a lot of posts explaining why I think TUS is not reacting correctly to this issue. If it would be about roper I would say the exact same. I would never refuse to play Hyst in a league environment. But I can refuse to support this passive TUS behavior.
It has nothing to do that I want Hysteria removed. I made a lot of posts explaining why I think TUS is not reacting correctly to this issue. If it would be about roper I would say the exact same. I would never refuse to play Hyst in a league environment. But I can refuse to support this passive TUS behavior.
Yeah well, send hate mail to their houses, don't go saying you ain't playing no more wtf man...
DT - You have no idea what you are talking about and you are just boring now, go away or get with the program...
You are right Shyguy. But even if you analize hysteria in a discussion and explain why it sucks it is stila subjective statement..Even if it is obvius..You need to deal with absolutes in order for it to be "Objective " which would carry more weight..
You guys don't like Hysteria the way it is, we love it the way it is, you would lose more interest by changing it, than leaving it the way it is.
Also, if this League was run the way you guys wanted it, it'd be the most boring League ever created...
And ignore the "scheme is for noobs" comments. I am not arguing with such arguments and I believe Hysteria deserves to be in the league but it needs to tweaked but the 60% against that are against any change at all. I would welcome any alteration you guys can suggest and try it out for a season.
Responding and telling me you (TUS, not you in particular) don't ignore this issue is quite humorous because this is like what? The 10th time the same results and/or discussion has been a major topic in TUS. It "feels" ignored, I know you guys react to it but it feels ignored because you don't really make any decision of weight regarding this.
You actually make a good point, why are there not so many threads about Shopper,BnG etc. Maybe it's because there really isn't such a huge antipathy towards those schemes after all. If it would even be close to the same level of Hyst (40:60) resistance, then I am sure it would have the same outrage every now and then, apparently it doesn't.
If a major issue in any institution gets postponed again and again I simply get disappointed by the administration. Gather the information we (for and against Hysteria) already gave you numerous times in this and the countless other threads and then decide for your own what you think is best. Make a clear statement why YOU at TUS staff think Hysteria deserves to be in Classic League, or why it does not. So far all I see is: Hysteria is most popular, majority is slim but still majority so it stays.
Lets just discuss the topic into oblivion and the "haters" are gone for another 2-3 months, then we do the same, is that what you think is a healthy league administration where a really close call in votes and important topic to many people doesn't get the (imo) appropriate attention.
If you're looking for no luck and only skill schemes, then the main league should consist of TTRR, bungeerace, boomrace (with /boomrace on so first turner doesn't get an unfair advantage), battlerace (same, so it's not really battlerace anymore) and sheeprace and maybe we'll allow elite and BnG since wind rarely is a deciding factor (though it does help of course): not likely though since first turn does help in getting better spots (that's for the hysteria-isn't-all-skill-so-it-shouldn't-be-a-league-game crowd).
Perhaps they might when those TCB challenges are uploaded ;D
While we're at it, why shouldn't we rethink other schemes as well? I have serious problems with BnG. To me it is a totally broken scheme. ffs we've broken the scheme down to *every 4 notches changes one worm sprite*. Is it me being so close-minded that I can't comprehend that a competition could be done on the sprite level and down to notching guides like a math multiply table? Isn't it the same others can't comprehend self-suicide/telepile could count as a form of competition too?
Where is the skill in notching? Where is the skill in telepile? oh god I don't know what I believe anymore! :)
Some people are just sick of the game but cant leave it, forever. I guess this community is just sick. Too many years and life is going on. One game, many leagues in many many years.
Its interesting that most of the posts in this thread are not from the active players. So why they care so much about tus? I'm sure they wont play tus league if hysteria gets removed. Not the most of them. But we do lose a lot of active hysteria players. They wont accept an hysteria league, that just would be a joke to them.
You can talk about some changes but the schemes must stay, in my opinion.
And about this luck conversation. Where's the problem there are some schemes with more luck in it? Even Elite needs some luck like almost all schemes. Its the samplesize. You also can play poker on a competitive level even its luck based. But at the end, after many many games, the better will stay at top.
So its possible to play hysteria at a high competitive level, its a matter of samplesize.
Accept this 60:40 situation on votings. Those 40% has to respect this. Other schemes wouldnt get a better ratio, once again. TTRR would be about 50:50 and thats a 0% luck scheme! Other 50% has to respect that too (also me, and I only dont play classic league cause of that damn ttrr!) ::)
Who cares? Nobody, its my problem! Too much egoists here.. :(
While we're at it, why shouldn't we rethink other schemes as well?
Ok for starters shy, "you guys don't like hysteria the way it is" IS A FACT, it's the reason you are posting here in the 1st place... However:
Hysteria was obviously put into this league because the creator was butt buddies with Monkey Island.
Also bungee race is not luckless...The wind can make you recover faster after a fall and thus make the diffrence between first and second place...
I will play with Casso but only if the challenge terms are met (hysteria gets moved/modified instantly if 40% win ratio), I will not see the trouble otherwise or play more than Casso.
Why don't you try to challenge more players (I already made a list several pages back). If you win 40% of games against us we can't take as an excuse that we weren't in the mood.
1. A scheme is picked randomly. So only legendary luckers and best all rounders will be able to manage to get into PO.
2. Bonus points for playing different schemes. E.g. hysteria+ttrr+elite 3-0 winning streak gives +50 points.
3. Every season there are 1-3 schemes that gives extra points, e.g. elite points are multiplied by 2.
4. In playoffs there are no picks. Just a set of 5 schemes without shopper, hysteria etc. The order is random.
Free, man up and take the challenge against 3 top players?
You made this much fuss about it, follow through?
Free, 1 player, as MI said, isn't enough, if you really want to go through with this, you must player 2/3 sets at least.
Free, 1 player, as MI said, isn't enough, if you really want to go through with this, you must player 2/3 sets at least.
That's just your(s) opinion, I'm sure you know what I mean by not enjoying some scheme and not wanting to torture myself by playing it anymore than I have to.
In my opinion it makes a clear enough statement, in your(s) opinion it doesn't. If there's no agreement (cuz terrorist lol) then f@#! it.
The topic starter risks to get banned :D
Free, 1 player, as MI said, isn't enough, if you really want to go through with this, you must player 2/3 sets at least.
That's just your(s) opinion, I'm sure you know what I mean by not enjoying some scheme and not wanting to torture myself by playing it anymore than I have to.
In my opinion it makes a clear enough statement, in your(s) opinion it doesn't. If there's no agreement (cuz terrorist lol) then f@#! it.
Then if you don't enjoy playing the scheme, because I am guessing, you don't find it suitable to your personal standards of what is "worthy" enough in the League, and you have a chance here to do something about it by accepting a small challenge you only need to dedicate around 1 month of your life too, you will still have enough time to do other important things in your life though, and you can't be bothered? Because you don't even want to play this scheme?
So why then are you even bothering to post a thread to do something to change Hysteria, you talk the talk but you are not willing to walk the walk... You understand your offer isn't fullproof, so we offered a counter which is pretty valid imo... This is your chance?
If no one is willing to put their money where their mouth is, can we stop creating threads like this in future please?
Or does anyone else feel up to the challenge?
You mean that "pondération"? Even if you take only schemes registered on TUS, there are 225 of them atm. But let's say 200, because there are some challenge schemes in that as well. Anyway, good luck with that! :)Yes exactly, sometimes english doesn't help me :).
I don't think turn order abuse should be eliminated entirely. I mean, it's even a valid tactic in elite. It would be silly to remove it from hysteria.
But at this point, I'd say we could give a lot of things a try in cups (oslt).
And I say allrounder league is up and running. And it's well thought-out. It will probably need some fining, but only after people realize it's quality and start designing their scheme picking style for it instead of classic league, generating representative sample for statistics doing so.You mean that "pondération"? Even if you take only schemes registered on TUS, there are 225 of them atm. But let's say 200, because there are some challenge schemes in that as well. Anyway, good luck with that! :)Yes exactly, sometimes english doesn't help me :).
Well, no need to add the 200 schemes at all, it was just to answer how to balance scheme that people believe involve more luck and should be less important.
edit: by the way, back in the wl days there was no problem with playing any scheme in the league and I remember some clan had "randomlike" winning ratio just because they were better. Well, as I said before, it is my opinion that the only major error was to call the league "classic league". Anyways, nevermind it is off topic and free gonna rape me ;)
Free tone it down a little bit? You haven't been warned here. Let's keep it that way?
Are you going to try to fix the problem or perhaps read any of the 20 times I mentioned randomsteria, ShyGuy?
You just posted a post that would put Komo to shame and did nothing but reiterate what problem you have. We get it. The sooner you realise we are actually making propositions in this very thread for at least 10 pages, the sooner things can actually change.
Or did you just propose putting aerial in the classic league? Bit too drastic if you ask me.
You say it comes down to a 1v1 sillyfest? I've seen Elites come down to 1v1 fest waiting for opponent to make a mistake or manage to get a "lucky" grenade in or something. T17 comes down to 1v1 and "let's hope we get SD weapon in a crate", but same as Hysteria, waiting for opponent to make a mistake, or go for the shot if you have a chance.
Why does it matter how many different strategies there are available for a scheme? There is only 1 for TTRR - Finish faster than your opponent. There is only 1 for BnG - Kill your opponent before he kills you, there isn't anything special you can do in those schemes, so why is this such a problem? If those schemes only have 1 strategy, and they are both highly competitive and skilled, so is Hysteria. The same logic of a "lucky shot" can win a BnG or an Elite or a T17, or even a Shopper or a WxW if it manages to plop or put on a mine by accident... These are acceptable, why not Hysteria?
Bottom line: When you're playing hysteria as a high stakes games, everyone's moves are forced because of they don't react in the traditional way, they are just going to take tons of damage and lose. DO NOT MISTAKE THIS AS BEING A TACTICAL ASPECT OF THE GAME. Remember, an enemy worm died (an event that is supposed to push you to victory because it works towards the goal of killing all their worms) but it forces your hand, if not you get raped... that's a clear sign of a broken scheme, I don't know how much clearer it can get.
Yes, it's true that hysteria has some strategy; HOWEVER, it's a problem when you HAVE to use the SAME strategy every time or else you'll simply lose. It leaves no room for variety, and I don't know how anyone can argue this - the proof is in thousands of hysteria replays where the same shit happens every game.
Free, I ain't dragging anyone down anywhere, you and the rest, are the ones who made this thread, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO OPENED THIS FREE SWEARING ABOUT 20 TIMES !
If you don't want to meet these conditions, simply stop posting.
Your proposition is pathetic Free and you know it, propose a REAL challenge like a man if you dare.
Ok then Free, I have an idea that might suit you, let's be serious about this.
For example:
You take on Casso.
Someone else takes on Gabriel.
Someone else takes on Random00.
Or if not all these people can play, there are few others of equal skill. How about that? Then this way you only have to play the amount of games you wanted?
Artic, Bryan, Casso and Kaleu**
Ok then Free, I have an idea that might suit you, let's be serious about this.
For example:
You take on Casso.
Someone else takes on Gabriel.
Someone else takes on Random00.
Or if not all these people can play, there are few others of equal skill. How about that? Then this way you only have to play the amount of games you wanted?
Some people still don't believe anything is wrong with hysteria as Komo just proved with his last post.
I used to be in favor of randomsteria, DarkOne, but the more I think about it, the less I like it. I don't want to completely remove rotation advantage from the game, just make it more risk for the reward. I don't like the idea of random turn order because:
1. You can still try rotation rape, which is good; however, you'd be relying on the random turn order for whether or not it will work out... You can't control the random turn order, so I don't like the idea of being countered or allowed a certain strat based off of a random factor you can't control, do you understand what I'm saying? If I decide to telepile, the risk does go up because of random turn order, but if it does thwart me, it's not like the enemy team did anything to counter me, they just got fortunate with the turn order... there was no special move or skill they had to do, the turn order just happened to be in their favor. I hope I'm explaining this well enough.
2. Random turn order makes it harder for you to organize moves within your own team because you don't know the order of your own team. If you're setting stuff up, it's highly reliant on getting a good turn order. It would be interesting if you could see your turn order but the enemy can't, but that's a discussion for another day.
Adding random turn order still doesn't fix the fundamental problem with hysteria, which is the 1 second turn time that breaks the scheme and allows for abuse in the scheme. It's the 1 second turn time that makes the game design goals of hysteria not work. So yes, Darkone, like I've pushed for before, I would like to see a 3 second hysteria variant like Aerial to replace the scheme.
I've thought about the worm select at the start of the turn before, but I wasn't sure how it would be implemented like you said. I'm interested, tho
LoL as long as komo is involved the number of pages go up significantly..But i guess we have reached a descission to eliminate Hysteria and put it on the free leauge like in times past ? Also intermidiate-Luckless should be added..
Also, "they've calmed down, no need to do anything now"? :)
my hands are crossed when i play hyst xD (left hand is on arrows, right is on spacebar etc :D )???
Thanks Komito ;D Frankly saying, my hands are crossed when i play hyst xD (left hand is on arrows, right is on spacebar etc :D )
I say it cuz I believe it's true, and I said some players, not alot of players.
I am talking about people about doing this:
Console / Console / Spacebar / Console / Spacebar / F1/F2/F5 / If F2 then 1-2-3-4-5 for fuse / Enter, while controlling the direction with arrows.
I have this gut feeling certain people I know are using macros, and one of the reasons why I think so is because they have already hit so much and are starting to fly within 0.5s, this is just mad...
But what makes me sure, is because they think they are so cool doing this almost useless move lol, it's as cringy & horrible to watch as watching people "FR" in warmers/TTRR even though they can't even control the rope lol ! They do it at the most useless time, just to try and look cool and it just makes me laugh at them lol...
There is always a better way to attack opponent imo, you can plop a worm or something or shoot worm far away sure, but it doesn't help towards end-game imo.
Even if macros were allowed and it took no effort at all, I still wouldn't do it, it's pathetic haha.
Husk, I wasn't even talking about you so why are you aiming MY text at YOU?! Are you insane?!
"we do it for fun" <------ Yeah sure lol, it totally isn't a biggest cock fest AT ALL... lol...
My fingers are so slow that I can hardly shoot a LG petrol.
What's so funny about this, it is true. Attempting to use program or macro related aids to be better at games is retarded. These type of people ruin the game for everyone else. One of my favorite shooters of alltime - Call of Duty WaW on xbox360 has been completely ruined by these people. I have a new level of disdain for people who do this lately. So if you do use something like this to gain an edge, you are a loser. Point blank, end of story.Even if macros were allowed and it took no effort at all, I still wouldn't do it, it's pathetic haha.
yet again, just for lulz
What's so funny about this, it is true. Attempting to use program or macro related aids to be better at games is retarded. These type of people ruin the game for everyone else. One of my favorite shooters of alltime - Call of Duty WaW on xbox360 has been completely ruined by these people. I have a new level of disdain for people who do this lately. So if you do use something like this to gain an edge, you are a loser. Point blank, end of story.Even if macros were allowed and it took no effort at all, I still wouldn't do it, it's pathetic haha.
yet again, just for lulz
Can someone with a decent camera record a video showing how to do these LG+JP+FP combos on a keyboard? My fingers are so slow that I can hardly shoot a LG petrol.
Can someone with a decent camera record a video showing how to do these LG+JP+FP combos on a keyboard? My fingers are so slow that I can hardly shoot a LG petrol.
I wanna see that :D
Can someone with a decent camera record a video showing how to do these LG+JP+FP combos on a keyboard? My fingers are so slow that I can hardly shoot a LG petrol.
I wanna see that :D
Its really not that hard. Just practice it. I did 8 out of 10 when playing with Dulek some time ago. And I never would use any tools or smth to cheat anything.
With a bit practice I'd get this quote easy again, even better. But when you have to move left or right when jetpacking it comes to a real challenge.
Can someone with a decent camera record a video showing how to do these LG+JP+FP combos on a keyboard? My fingers are so slow that I can hardly shoot a LG petrol.
i would like to see it as well.... im pretty sure it can be done, i dont doubt it...
but id love to see someone record themselves doing it as consistently as they do it in league games, as komo pointed out.
i would like to see it as well.... im pretty sure it can be done, i dont doubt it...
but id love to see someone record themselves doing it as consistently as they do it in league games, as komo pointed out.
this is another thing. i never use that combo in leagues because its hard to perform sometimes. but jet+lg+mine is very easy for example and now that i know how to do it i'm sure i could use it in some TUS game aswell.
I've been playing hyst since day one and I agree. While it does take a lot of skill to do such things as correctly place a mine to plop an enemy worm, accurately fire bazooka/molotov/grenade etc from jetpack all of this in the span of a single second, most games revolve only around telecow shit. It doesn't matter if you can use jetpack + lg + grenade if your opponent can just take advantage of teleport and kill you before you even move.
Also hysteria isn't even a classic scheme so it doesn't belong there whether we're talking about age or skill ceiling.
Go for Randomsteria? ;D
Its not smart to talk like that as a promoter. I know you're not a douche, Free. If you delete Hysteria from classic league, general activity will decrease. You know that Hysteria is a good scheme to get in touch with worms, like Shopper. Beginners dont get warm with "pro schemes" so Hysteria can open the way for many newcomers.
Hysteria helps community growing! :)
Watch this one and think againpretty awful game, cant believe i wasted my time watching it
http://wormolympics.com/tournaments/replay_info/33787
Watch this one and think againIf anything this is a good example of why the scheme is absolutely retarded. You kill your own worms, darkside, force sudden death and generally play it so your opponent has exactly 1 shot on you the whole game (the one at the very end, where he could've won if the zook hit). Nice comet dodging style of scheme.
http://wormolympics.com/tournaments/replay_info/33787
Watch this one and think againIf anything this is a good example of why the scheme is absolutely retarded. You kill your own worms, darkside, force sudden death and generally play it so your opponent has exactly 1 shot on you the whole game (the one at the very end, where he could've won if the zook hit). Nice comet dodging style of scheme.
http://wormolympics.com/tournaments/replay_info/33787
2/10 wouldn't play again.
Ban hyst, shoppa, t17 and wxw
Watch this one and think againIf anything this is a good example of why the scheme is absolutely retarded. You kill your own worms, darkside, force sudden death and generally play it so your opponent has exactly 1 shot on you the whole game (the one at the very end, where he could've won if the zook hit). Nice comet dodging style of scheme.
http://wormolympics.com/tournaments/replay_info/33787
2/10 wouldn't play again.
Elite scheme is like chess and hysteria is more like checkers, fast-paced nature of the scheme doesn't make it bad.
Regarding turn advantage... With experience I see that actually having more worms is better in some situations, especially when you can predict the time your opponent starts to plop their worms.
put this topic in the Trash Can maaaanae
put this topic in the Trash Can maaaanae
Its still, by design broken as a competetive scheme.
Roper could use tweaking yes but T17 has very complex strats to hold and counter advantageous situations, personally I would add static homing from the start to make up for cr8 luck.
Hyst in the other has very little effective strats because of points mentioned earlier, imo. Im ready to "prove" that effective means boring in hysteria. Side zook tactics and telecow is the way to go
Hysteria has some stupid/annoying turtle strategies, but I would hardly say its anywhere near as boring as t17.
You should play against top T17'ers (Senator, Chelsea etc.) to understand how deep T17 nowadays can be. IMO it has evolved a lot these past couple of years
Amount of playing to be effective and winning player in hysteria is poor compared to Rr for example. One could teach hyst strats to any beginner in a day and he would be successful against good players compared to years of grinding Rr to match against good players, catch my drift?
I think Hysteria is not "broken" but it's easy to learn and it's a small margin game, pretty much like Shopper (in Shopper there's crate luck too). Beginners can have a much closer game against the best players in Hysteria than in Elite, TTRR, WxW, Roper, BnG.
Amount of playing to be effective and winning player in hysteria is poor compared to Rr for example. One could teach hyst strats to any beginner in a day and he would be successful against good players compared to years of grinding Rr to match against good players, catch my drift?
Sry meant weaker player with beginner.
Poor little Peja doesn't understand the world :)
As i've already said Hysteria isn't as popular as Elite, there are actually few great players in Hysteria, this is why a lot of games look like that, because most of the people playing are casual and kinda suck. The same thing happens in other schemes where both players aren't skilled/experienced enough yet.
"1 specific shot" can win/lose pretty much any scheme. Stop being so close minded man, you are one of the most stubborn minded, uneducated people on this website, or at least that's how you come across, harassing people, moaning about everything, you constantly go on rants like this without providing ANY evidence whatsoever.
TUS would be a better place already if people like you just kept their mouth shut.
No one really thought about tactics in BnG until I came around either and made things like pushing, digging, opening a thing.
its about the importance of 1 specific shot, in BnG there have been many hits before the final blow, however you can win hysteria with just 1 hit. in a scheme were people can kill their own worms without much drawback there is an easy road to reach lategame. you dont need any skills to bring you into a position from where you can win the game. you could just fart at your screen during your first 6 turns and still win the game, which you cant do in elite, ttrr etc.
you did not know the meaning of slavs,
you denied the existence of mental illness and drug addiction.
No one really thought about tactics in BnG until I came around either and made things like pushing, digging, opening a thing.
lmao
also, how long has this Xrayez guy played Hysteria for?
No one really thought about tactics in BnG until I came around either and made things like pushing, digging, opening a thing.
lmao
also, how long has this Xrayez guy played Hysteria for?
Only 4 years straight :<
Yup yup
TheKomodo, you're banned.
maybe we could limit the amount of zookas?
just decrease time to sd from 10sec (/missed turns) to 5.i second this
To make the scheme even worse? Hysteria already lacks any early/midgame, sd timer with 5 is an instant comeback mechanismjust decrease time to sd from 10sec (/missed turns) to 5.i second this
id say its the exact opposite, easier to push the guy sidehiding for zook wind out of his hide, comebacks are easier if the water isnt risingTo make the scheme even worse? Hysteria already lacks any early/midgame, sd timer with 5 is an instant comeback mechanismjust decrease time to sd from 10sec (/missed turns) to 5.i second this
SD always helps the one being behind because it does nullify the hp advantage, instead of hitting a 80 hp worm twice, you can 1 shot.id say its the exact opposite, easier to push the guy sidehiding for zook wind out of his hide, comebacks are easier if the water isnt risingTo make the scheme even worse? Hysteria already lacks any early/midgame, sd timer with 5 is an instant comeback mechanismjust decrease time to sd from 10sec (/missed turns) to 5.i second this
rr > elite > bng > hysteria > wxw > roper > t17 > shoppa
rr > elite > bng > hysteria > wxw > roper > t17 > shoppa
if we're talking about skill, hysteria takes none.
@peja, slayer, theredi,
Those discussions belonged to the refugee thread. Please use the site PM function to discuss it further among yourselves.
Offtopic posts deleted.
If it's all luck (i.e. no skills), then how come I'm currently having 100% winning ratio (in 9 games) instead of 50%?
rr > elite > bng > wxw > hysteria > t17 > shoppa > roper