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May 13, 2024, 11:55 PM

Poll

Do you want Hysteria to be in Classic league?

YES
NO

Author Topic: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE  (Read 42173 times)

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Offline chakkman

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #150 on: February 12, 2013, 12:20 AM »
this discussion is sensless.

I agree. Let's just say DarkOne won this argument. :)

Offline Maciej

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #151 on: February 12, 2013, 12:28 AM »
this discussion is sensless.

I agree. Let's just say DarkOne won this argument. :)

No way! If I could at least suppose that my arguments won't win, I would never get into the flame war :D

Offline Free

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #152 on: February 12, 2013, 03:44 AM »
Free, the thread about Hysteria on TUS is way too old. You shouldn't look at it that way. Those times TUS had other problems like getting community's acceptance/approval. The leagues were so young and we were trying hard to deliver something to satisfy the majority of the community. Hysteria got fit in nicely while Intermediate got us into even more trouble. Some popular comments like "TUS is shit, they allow Intermediate!" or some point of views like this game's chat.

A lot of threads about Hysteria got created since, but in my point of view, most started out of anger of losing. Hysteria is the most played scheme on TUS. Not one of the most, it is THE most played scheme. 17,191 single games as I type this. (followed by Roper 12,235 and TTRR 11,754, check seasons info for full statistics). Removing the most popular scheme from classic league is not that easy, even if you prove that the scheme is flawed.

Personally I don't think Hysteria is flawed. A flaw in a scheme is what makes the skill level lower, or allows noobs to beat pros more often. I fail to see such flaw in Hysteria. Our great Hysteria players (off the top of my head) are Gabriel, Casso, Random00. I don't think a noob could have ANY chance against these players.

I am really tired of engaging into scheme fights. We mostly like to argue theoretically. If someone is up for it and challenge one of top hysteria players and achieve like 40-50% winning percentages against these players, then I think it will open our eyes about how flawed this scheme is and helps us take further actions.


You could always make a separate hysteria league and just remove hysteria from classic. How can't you see this might actually be the best solution to everybody? I still argue that the majority of TUS hysteria players just want to play hysteria.

And finally, after 3 pages of senseless theoretical bullshit you agree on the challenge? I will take up on it, 2 weeks and I will take on any of the top players, play 10 games, if I achieve over 40% you agree to remove it from classic or modify it? Such a simple modification as adding 1 or 2 seconds more time would already make the scheme less flawed and more exciting even if played utilizing most effective tactics.

And yes, an average hysteria player with even little understanding of piling tactics and side dominating is able to beat any top hysteria player. Not most of the time ofc.

Now, who accepts the challenge and we set a date from there for 2 weeks forward.

Also, as a boss of TUS you really shouldn't be "tired" of scheme fights, because that's what the competitive players want, if they think they see a flaw in the scheme that can be balanced, naturally they want it to be more balanced. I don't think that the correct way is to ask for majority opinion on such things (beginners and average players just don't see the flaws as deeply) but smarter way would be the set up an council with top competitive players and they make the decisions as they see fit.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 03:49 AM by Free »

Offline Anubis

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #153 on: February 12, 2013, 04:52 AM »
Free! Sign me in on that! I just played my first Clanner in Hyst today, it was literally my 2nd Hyst of all time so I would qualify as a "noob". I'd be interested in playing vs the pros of Hyst. If it's for the good of TUS I will play this abomination a few times 1v1. :D

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #154 on: February 12, 2013, 06:00 AM »
I honestly don't understand you guys..with all these promotion and stuff.. I mean am I the only one to see that professional gamer would earn more money per hours by being cleaner ? Or that it is about 0.00001% of the gamers that earn enough money by playing to buy more than candies ? Or that it is only about marketing so they can sell more product and wa will never be like that (btw I don't mean to disrespect your work or anything but I personally just doubt it will have any huge impact on the game even if it's cool to see this stuff).
My point is that you guys want to have the most perfect skill game ever when there is absolutely no point in doing that. What do you want ? Mablak or Random that are now leading the wn world for almost 8 years to continu doing so ? How is that even enjoyable. Where is the fun out of that ? I remember WL when we used to play a lot of battlerace because we loved it and no one complained about anything about it. Nowadays, you want to remove one of the most played scheme for what ? Because you think there is too many luck in it. So excuse me but what the hell ? You won't be earning anything by winning any tus saison ever. It is nice to have some competiveness but to some extend. To be honest tus is really becoming boring for me and lot of people. Not because of MI or the website design (actually technically it is the best league we had ever) but because of the actual trend that is to remove all scheme that involve luck. Less and less scheme more and more robot like playing. Where is the fun ? Yes, you still can play free league but it's not active at all and since it is free there is almost no one doing it seriously. I believe MI and tus staff tried to enhance these scheme by puting intermediate or aeral but some of you for some dark unknown raison just want to stay the way it is. Let's stay the way it is and wait another 10 years before having a new mablak and random. At least it'll be easy for the award section ! But please for one second, imagine that you bring 90% of the free league scheme into the normal league (let's say with some scheme ponderation), I wouldn't be that sure that mablak or random make into playoffs ! Wouldn't it be great to see everyone has a chance to some extend to see some people who played these schemes for age coming here and teaching us new stuffs ? Aw yes, some "pro" clan would have a hard time but wouldn't it be great overall ?
Let's say we bring the most lucky scheme in the normal league..let's say banana bng but with a ponderation soo low that you would have to win 10 banana bng in order to make it like 1 ttrr. It wouldn't change that the best would win at the end. The way I see things is that I believe most of people didn't really give a try to these free scheme and didn't see that lot of them include a lot of skill. Am I the only one who think that watching mablak+statik against anubis+barman playing a wascar clanner would be so much funner than them playing roper or ttrr ? Yes it's always cooler to say that your winning ration is 99.99% but well..who cares if at the end you're able to play only 4 schemes.. A good ponderation between scheme would allow people to learn new thing about worms, to have new people and to have more fun because fun is often triggered by some luck !
Well just saying my thought even if I  know everyone want the world to look like the way they want :-)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 06:32 AM by zippeurfou »

Offline Peja

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #155 on: February 12, 2013, 06:26 AM »
indeed its just to far. and tbh the best thing of wa is still the lucky shit which can happen. and hysteria basicly is a brainf@#!, just awesome.
and like others already said,  you cant promote a game by removing the most popular scheme. 
VoK: i have now beer so my rope will be perfect.
 VoK: will do ttrr every map under 30s

Offline Free

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #156 on: February 12, 2013, 07:19 AM »
Some of us actually find "fun" and "enjoyment" when competing at something we're very good at, with or without money and want skill factor be more important than luck factor.

Why doesn't anyone see the sentences where I suggest that let hysteria have its own league or lets modify the scheme?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 07:20 AM by Free »

Offline Peja

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #157 on: February 12, 2013, 07:47 AM »
i wonder from which indicators you know hysteria is more luck based  than others. the only indicator could be stats.
when u look on this season stats and compare them with ttrr (certainly not much luck invovled) you cant really see any significant difference on the top.

if i take your theory for true, shouldnt those numbers be much lower than in ttrr?
VoK: i have now beer so my rope will be perfect.
 VoK: will do ttrr every map under 30s

Offline TheKomodo

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #158 on: February 12, 2013, 08:27 AM »
Free! Sign me in on that! I just played my first Clanner in Hyst today, it was literally my 2nd Hyst of all time so I would qualify as a "noob". I'd be interested in playing vs the pros of Hyst. If it's for the good of TUS I will play this abomination a few times 1v1. :D

Anubis, I think you would actually do well in the challenge, you have a Mablak-like mentality when it comes to dedicating oneself to things like this.

I haven't watched the game yet, but I am sure you won because both you and barman are exceptional BnG players, and very experienced at doing the right thing at the right time.

Why doesn't anyone see the sentences where I suggest that let hysteria have its own league or lets modify the scheme?

Because we don't want to.

What do you want? Only the schemes you are very good at left in Classic?

We have 8 schemes, and I have personally never seen such a fair and balanced League, TuS imo is the best League WA ever had, and probably ever will have, and for me the balance of the Classic League schemes is a reason for that.


Offline ANO

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #159 on: February 12, 2013, 10:06 AM »
HEY; I HAVE A SOLUTION: Votation + Challenge

At least I can see only you Free and Macjei here really determined to remove hyst.
Let's try to VOTE for this, put a poll in the top of your topic! or ask MI to put a poll in the homepage.

The poll + your "Challenge" could determine the solution.

Deal?

Offline Free

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #160 on: February 12, 2013, 11:33 AM »
Free! Sign me in on that! I just played my first Clanner in Hyst today, it was literally my 2nd Hyst of all time so I would qualify as a "noob". I'd be interested in playing vs the pros of Hyst. If it's for the good of TUS I will play this abomination a few times 1v1. :D

Anubis, I think you would actually do well in the challenge, you have a Mablak-like mentality when it comes to dedicating oneself to things like this.

I haven't watched the game yet, but I am sure you won because both you and barman are exceptional BnG players, and very experienced at doing the right thing at the right time.

Why doesn't anyone see the sentences where I suggest that let hysteria have its own league or lets modify the scheme?

Because we don't want to.

What do you want? Only the schemes you are very good at left in Classic?

We have 8 schemes, and I have personally never seen such a fair and balanced League, TuS imo is the best League WA ever had, and probably ever will have, and for me the balance of the Classic League schemes is a reason for that.



Oh so now you speak for the whole majority.

Offline ANO

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #161 on: February 12, 2013, 11:37 AM »
Answer me Free, go somewhere! xD 11 pages, let's a conclusion goddamnit

Offline Free

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #162 on: February 12, 2013, 11:42 AM »
Answer me Free, go somewhere! xD 11 pages, let's a conclusion goddamnit

If you just use your eyes you can clearly see that I'm the one waiting for a response to the challenge.

Offline ANO

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #163 on: February 12, 2013, 11:49 AM »
I was talking also about the poll... I can see only you and Macjieji so motivated, nor other wormers...

Offline TheKomodo

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #164 on: February 12, 2013, 11:52 AM »
Oh so now you speak for the whole majority.

No, they have already spoke for themselves, I was just answering your question man...

I only say it, because of the amount of times people just like yourself have posted anti-hysteria thread, and failed miserably.