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May 13, 2024, 11:19 PM

Poll

Do you want Hysteria to be in Classic league?

YES
NO

Author Topic: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE  (Read 42168 times)

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Offline Free

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #405 on: February 22, 2013, 02:50 PM »
Free, man up and take the challenge against 3 top players?

You made this much fuss about it, follow through?

I'm not the only one to make "fuss" about Hysteria, if you look back on the X amount of threads created before.

Like 4th time I'm ready to take the challenge but I only agreed on playing 1 player, so yes I AM FOLLOWING THROUGH, you ignorant idiot.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #406 on: February 22, 2013, 03:00 PM »
Free, 1 player, as MI said, isn't enough, if you really want to go through with this, you must player 2/3 sets at least.

Offline Free

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #407 on: February 22, 2013, 03:02 PM »
Free, 1 player, as MI said, isn't enough, if you really want to go through with this, you must player 2/3 sets at least.

That's just your(s) opinion, I'm sure you know what I mean by not enjoying some scheme and not wanting to torture myself by playing it anymore than I have to.

In my opinion it makes a clear enough statement, in your(s) opinion it doesn't. If there's no agreement (cuz terrorist lol) then f@#! it.

Offline Prankster

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #408 on: February 22, 2013, 03:14 PM »
You guys really shouldn't deflect attention from a quite serious discussion this topic came to, to your personal brawl.

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #409 on: February 22, 2013, 03:19 PM »
The topic starter risks to get banned :D


dt`wreckz: zooks are effected my win

Offline TheKomodo

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #410 on: February 22, 2013, 03:21 PM »
Free, 1 player, as MI said, isn't enough, if you really want to go through with this, you must player 2/3 sets at least.

That's just your(s) opinion, I'm sure you know what I mean by not enjoying some scheme and not wanting to torture myself by playing it anymore than I have to.

In my opinion it makes a clear enough statement, in your(s) opinion it doesn't. If there's no agreement (cuz terrorist lol) then f@#! it.

Then if you don't enjoy playing the scheme, because I am guessing, you don't find it suitable to your personal standards of what is "worthy" enough in the League, and you have a chance here to do something about it by accepting a small challenge you only need to dedicate around 1 month of your life too, you will still have enough time to do other important things in your life though, and you can't be bothered? Because you don't even want to play this scheme?

So why then are you even bothering to post a thread to do something to change Hysteria, you talk the talk but you are not willing to walk the walk... You understand your offer isn't fullproof, so we offered a counter which is pretty valid imo... This is your chance?

If no one is willing to put their money where their mouth is, can we stop creating threads like this in future please?

Or does anyone else feel up to the challenge?


Offline LeTotalKiller

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #411 on: February 22, 2013, 03:24 PM »
The topic starter risks to get banned :D

( Yeah, for some reason I wish this could be applied here, especially since this *request* is pretty selfish. :P )

Offline Free

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #412 on: February 22, 2013, 03:40 PM »
Free, 1 player, as MI said, isn't enough, if you really want to go through with this, you must player 2/3 sets at least.

That's just your(s) opinion, I'm sure you know what I mean by not enjoying some scheme and not wanting to torture myself by playing it anymore than I have to.

In my opinion it makes a clear enough statement, in your(s) opinion it doesn't. If there's no agreement (cuz terrorist lol) then f@#! it.

Then if you don't enjoy playing the scheme, because I am guessing, you don't find it suitable to your personal standards of what is "worthy" enough in the League, and you have a chance here to do something about it by accepting a small challenge you only need to dedicate around 1 month of your life too, you will still have enough time to do other important things in your life though, and you can't be bothered? Because you don't even want to play this scheme?

So why then are you even bothering to post a thread to do something to change Hysteria, you talk the talk but you are not willing to walk the walk... You understand your offer isn't fullproof, so we offered a counter which is pretty valid imo... This is your chance?

If no one is willing to put their money where their mouth is, can we stop creating threads like this in future please?

Or does anyone else feel up to the challenge?



Stfu already about me not standing behind my word. My conditions were pretty f@#!ing clear and I still haven't backed down from it, so stop making me look bad when your the one who's considered being the f@#!ing idiot of forums.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #413 on: February 22, 2013, 03:57 PM »
Free, I am not trying to make you look bad, man up already, take the conditions, or shutup and stop being a sissy.

Offline MonkeyIsland

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #414 on: February 22, 2013, 04:01 PM »
Free tone it down a little bit? You haven't been warned here. Let's keep it that way?
Due to massive misunderstandings: MonkeyIsland refers to an island not a monkey. I would be a monkey, if my name was IslandMonkey meaning a monkey who is or lives on an island. MonkeyIsland is an island which is related to monkeys. Also there's been a legend around saying MonkeyIsland is a game. So please, think of me as an island or a game.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #415 on: February 22, 2013, 04:04 PM »
Free, all I am saying is, obviously "your conditions" are not suitable enough, like MI said, Casso could have a bad day, he's under alot of pressure playing for the entire community to save his beloved scheme...

Surely you can understand the conditions MI offered as fit and manageable? So if you can't accept these conditions, accept you won't have a chance to change Hysteria, and we can lock this thread or something.

Offline franz

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #416 on: February 22, 2013, 04:44 PM »
add tabbing through worms like in Team17.

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #417 on: February 22, 2013, 05:15 PM »
I don't think turn order abuse should be eliminated entirely. I mean, it's even a valid tactic in elite. It would be silly to remove it from hysteria.
But at this point, I'd say we could give a lot of things a try in cups (oslt).

Free, you can prove Komo wrong by playing in the challenge. Thing is: more games means more reliable numbers. Somebody who scores 100% with 2 games could be lucky. Somebody who scores 100% in 20 games is very good. Somebody who scores 100% in 50 games is, well, Mablak.

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #418 on: February 22, 2013, 05:19 PM »
You mean that "pondération"? Even if you take only schemes registered on TUS, there are 225 of them atm. But let's say 200, because there are some challenge schemes in that as well. Anyway, good luck with that! :)
Yes exactly, sometimes english doesn't help me :).
Well, no need to add the 200 schemes at all, it was just to answer how to balance scheme that people believe involve more luck and should be less important.
edit: by the way, back in the wl days there was no problem with playing any scheme in the league and I remember some clan had "randomlike" winning ratio just because they were better. Well, as I said before, it is my opinion that the only major error was to call the league "classic league". Anyways, nevermind it is off topic and free gonna rape me ;)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 05:24 PM by zippeurfou »

Re: BAN HYSTERIA FROM DEFAULT LEAGUE
« Reply #419 on: February 22, 2013, 05:32 PM »
My argument has always been early game and mid game in hysteria is absolutely meaningless... The last time there was a big hysteria thread, I told people to look at Komo's recent hysteria replays, and my point was proven... No matter what you do early and mid game, you gain very little, if not any, advantage... doesn't that seem whack for a scheme that's supposed to be "strategic" and "skillful?"  Look at the majority of hysteria games, it's almost always a 1v1... For a scheme where the goal is to KILL the enemy team's worms, how come in hysteria there's no benefit and sometimes a disadvantage to killing the first 3 worms?  There's no advantage to killing your opponents worms... in a scheme where the goal is to kill your opponents worms. 

My other point from the old hysteria thread - the 1 second turn time highly limits creativity and move choice... there's only so much you can do in 1 second, which is why the game usually turns into a 1v1 bng fest because what else are you going to do? The 1 second turn time also restricts you from protecting your own worms, which is why rotation rape can be abused...

The scheme basically forces behavior and limits creativity... if it didn't, why do so many hysterias play out the same way?? Answer me that.  Think about it.  If your opponent kills his own worm, it's now 3v4... Here are your options:
1. You can kill one of your own worms next time to prevent him from dealing mass amounts of damage over a course of turns through rotation rape. 
2. You can try to move all your worms close together for protection, although mathematically if he were to still pile you, he'd come out on top in terms of damage dealt.
3. You can choose to just go with the flow and not really make any counter move, but if you do this, you'll get rotation raped.

Those are your three options; of course very special and unique options may arise occasionally.  But look, the enemy lost a worm, the goal is to eliminate all his worms, so how come something that's supposed to build towards a goal just creates a disadvantage for yourself?

Let's look at option 3.  When playing hysteria casually, this is the option most people take, and that's why hysteria being played more casually and for fun would be a better place for it. As soon as a worm dies, you don't see people starting to knock their own worms off or pile close in one little area of the map for the entire game... they just stay put and try to do fun stuff.  The scheme doesn't force your behavior when you play it casually with nothing at stake.

Bottom line: When you're playing hysteria as a high stakes games, everyone's moves are forced because of they don't react in the traditional way, they are just going to take tons of damage and lose.  DO NOT MISTAKE THIS AS BEING A TACTICAL ASPECT OF THE GAME.  Remember, an enemy worm died (an event that is supposed to push you to victory because it works towards the goal of killing all their worms) but it forces your hand, if not you get raped... that's a clear sign of a broken scheme, I don't know how much clearer it can get.

Think about it like you were just creating the hysteria scheme.  What are your goals for a scheme that has 1 second turn time?  Why is it called hysteria? The goals are to kill all the enemy team worms, it's called hysteria because it's supposed to be hectic and crazy because you only have 1 second to attack... does anyone dispute that?  The goal is to kill enemy worms, but there's no incentive to actually do that; it's called hysteria because it's supposed to be crazy, but all the games play out the same way, with the exact couple of tactics used every time with no creativity or thought... The goals of the scheme have not been met, IT'S NOT WORTHY OF BEING PLAYED COMPETITIVELY... Take worms and hysteria out of the picture and just look at game design philosophically - Your game goals you had in mind are not being met and/or are being met with negative, unintentional repercussions.

Yes, it's true that hysteria has some strategy; HOWEVER, it's a problem when you HAVE to use the SAME strategy every time or else you'll simply lose.  It leaves no room for variety, and I don't know how anyone can argue this - the proof is in thousands of hysteria replays where the same shit happens every game.

It basically boils down to a 1v1 pussy fest where you can win simply by a fluke lucky shot; after all, you only get 1 second to aim, a lot of the times it's going to be a luckyshotGG nade or petrol that wins you the game... don't deny it, it's happened to damn near everyone probably more than once... is that what we really want as a competitive league scheme? Because to me, that sounds very uncreative, very low skill cap, boring, and unreliable to determine who is best at the game.  A scheme like Aerial (a balanced Aerial scheme), which I believe had the same intended game design goals as hysteria, is a much better demonstrator of a scheme that fixes everything wrong with competitive hysteria and turns it into a dynamic, strategic, and skillful scheme worthy of the classic league.


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  <-- my brain when I clan with avi