Changing Classic League Schemes

[Aerox]

out of all the clanners I played with cfc this season, hyst was the most, I'd say we picked it 80 percent of the time

According to cfc current season statistics:

Out of all the games this season cFc played roughly 24% hysteria (41 games).

Out of those 41 games only 27% of the times they picked it, roughly 10 times, which is not crazy considering Komo was part of the clan not long ago.



edit: I checked the other top clans. All data supports that it's the scheme worse players pick to beat better players. I feel really stupid for not having checked it before, seeing as it's all there in the clan profiles. Waiting to see how Komo twists this one around.

[sock]

Yeah, out of the 16 hyst I played, I think it was about 80 percent our pick. Couldn't say for all 41

I guess 27 is pretty high, considering its tied for our most picked scheme.

[ShyGuy]

The point is most of the people complaining about it don't even take 1v1 TuS Classic League seriously, they will never be active again.

I have seen more complaints about other schemes that people consistently play (BnG for example) and the rules STILL don't change, the fact you even think your irrelevant opinions on Hysteria will make a difference when everyone knows you don't even take part or won't even if you got your foolish changes, is quite funny to me, the only way I see you getting active is to prove me wrong cuz you ALL love trying to do that more than you enjoy actually doing WA related things.

Unless you are going to take part in something you helped change, or you own it, you should just say how you feel and not get involved any deeper.

You talk about logic?

Does this seem logical? 10-20 people(that's being generous) want Hysteria changed, so it gets changed, they never play, other people who enjoyed it before stop playing because they don't enjoy it anymore.

Oh yeah, VERRRRRRRY logical lol...

Edit: Maciej, Hysterias very rarely take 45+ minutes, if they do, both players aren't good enough.

Logical fallacy after logical fallacy in this post... You're creating false behaviors for us (saying we are inactive, we won't come back even if it changes, we just want to prove you wrong and we don't really care about the scheme) and using your made up facts about us to invalidate arguments made against hysteria.  This is like the most basic logical fallacy, ad hominem, attacking the person instead of their arguments.  Komo, it doesn't make a difference if Hitler, Jesus, Agent Dale Cooper, or a homeless person comes up with these points against hysteria, do you realize that? Stop looking at the person making the argument and try isolating the claims and focusing on directly refuting each point with empirical evidence.   

Also, I don't know where you get off on saying all this bullshit about us not taking part in anything.  We've all played hysteria since it came out and we still play it.  We've made observations about the scheme, as well as a lot of other people.  You're telling us our input doesn't matter just because YOU think we don't play enough in your eyes.  If you've resorted to countering arguments against a scheme by using false assumptions about our irrelevant activity, something that has nothing to do with the minute details and theories of hysteria, then I'm just going to assume you've lost the debate.

[SPW]

Guys, you dont have smth better to do in your life than posting long stories? Nobody cares in a few days. Maybe you can use your time for smth more important than debate day for day, week for week, month for month? And its always komito, avirex, shyguy and ropa. Husbands and wifes.. but I'm sure I'm not the only one getting really bored about it.

And dont blame hysteria, its a good scheme and very popular nowadays. Removing schemes like hysteria, shoppa etc. will drop activity hard and it would not be a smart move. And why every scheme has to be with 0% luck? Imo this makes it more interesting and we need that luck factor. There are schemes with low luck and there some with more. Thats really ok and no reason to change anything.

I can live with those 8 classic schemes. Maybe some schemes needs little changes, like "no rule" for BnG etc, but not by removing at all. Especially not hysteria. At first its fun and at second you will lose a lot of people and it would be a very bad step in the wrong direction!

Keep schemes in.

[Chicken23]

SPW hit the nail on the head.

I don't see any schemes being removed from classic league but just some tweaks to current TUS schemes.. or rule changes etc.

The long posts and debates are not very productive and seem to be more personal battles to prove eachother wrong, instead of actually providing a useful solution to improving TUS.

[ShyGuy]

How do you know tweaking hysteria will cause a large reduction of activity? People could still play the fixed scheme and/or pick other schemes.  We'll never know unless we actually test things out.  We could always bring the original scheme back if it caused such catastrophic inactivity to the league.  If the scheme has been proven to be unworthy of being in the league, we shouldn't be forced to keep it because of what might happen.

There's nothing wrong with having sides argue a point, but usually there's just too many people who jump into the debate and simply don't know how to argue and that's when the thread goes to shit because of all the ad hominems and straw men.  Perhaps a board that made us anonymous would make these more productive, but then again, that wouldn't stop all the silly one line posts like "stop the whining about hysteria, you need much skill and it should stay in the league unchanged." 

Not enough people actually argue their side effectively whilst following the rules of logic, and I don't say logic as in "common sense", I'm talking about university level "if A = B and B = C" kind of logic applied to arguments for and against hysteria. 

[Maciej]

Hight ranked clans pick hyst/t17 only when they get so little points for other schemes.

[Aerox]

Guys, you dont have smth better to do in your life than posting long stories? Nobody cares in a few days. Maybe you can use your time for smth more important than debate day for day, week for week, month for month? And its always komito, avirex, shyguy and ropa. Husbands and wifes.. but I'm sure I'm not the only one getting really bored about it.

And dont blame hysteria, its a good scheme and very popular nowadays. Removing schemes like hysteria, shoppa etc. will drop activity hard and it would not be a smart move. And why every scheme has to be with 0% luck? Imo this makes it more interesting and we need that luck factor. There are schemes with low luck and there some with more. Thats really ok and no reason to change anything.

I can live with those 8 classic schemes. Maybe some schemes needs little changes, like "no rule" for BnG etc, but not by removing at all. Especially not hysteria. At first its fun and at second you will lose a lot of people and it would be a very bad step in the wrong direction!

Keep schemes in.

What's the difference between say, ShyGuy actually giving a logical argument against some of the rules in hysteria and you making an equally long post saying people shouldn't argue and things should stay as they are because you like them as they are?

I rather read ShyGuy because he at least tries to make a valid argumental point as opposed to repeating his personal opinion based on taste for the 10th time whilst telling everyone else to shut up.

I'm sorry Tom if you don't find any of these "long posts" productive, I wonder then, if you're actually up for tweaking the scheme in order to make it more fitting for an allaround league, how would you proceed? Have we failed in identifying the problems with the scheme in this thread? We've provided plenty of examples and so far the feedback has given us 0 counter-arguments. All we've heard is, "stop arguing", "keep things like they are because hysteria is popular" and Komodo make his posts, which I assume most of us skip, anyway...

The evidence in this thread proves that Hysteria is a gamble scheme, always picked by the lower ranked clans/players in order to over-achieve. That doesn't mean hysteria can't be pro, it just shows how the community is acting towards the scheme. If you think identifying a problem is unproductive then so be it but I find it extremely patronizing.

SPW, I do have better things to do in life, however, the 5 minutes it takes me to write a post aren't going to stop me from accomplishing those other things. Thanks for your concerns, anyway. Don't you have better things to spend your money in?

[Free]

Ropa, that money thing was totally uncalled for, if anything, SPW and others should be thanked for contributing their own money into this game we love.

[Aerox]

Ropa, that money thing was totally uncalled for, if anything, SPW and others should be thanked for contributing their own money into this game we love.

Exactly, thanks for understanding the comparison.

[Husk]

we pick hysteria because it's fun O= not because we have better chance to win in it compared to other schemes

[Free]

Ropa, that money thing was totally uncalled for, if anything, SPW and others should be thanked for contributing their own money into this game we love.

Exactly, thanks for understanding the comparison.

And what was it?

All I read was trying to make a funny remark.

[Aerox]

we pick hysteria because it's fun O= not because we have better chance to win in it compared to other schemes

Do you have any data to back this up? Or is this just what you want to believe and hope that by repeating it many times it eventually becomes true?
Can you elaborate? Why do you think "fun" is the reason and not "small learning curve therefore anyone can get decent at it and actually win games in a league"?

And what was it?
All I read was trying to make a funny remark.

Ok let me spoon feed you Free since you insist in talking about this particular subject in this particular thread for some particular reason.

SPW told us we were wasting time by making posts.

I made a similar claim in hopes he realizes how unecesary his original claim was.

If you have any more doubts use the PM function, unless you want to offer feedback on why Hysteria is so rarely picked by top clans and why is it so often picked against them, because quite frankly, that's all I'm interested in but for some reason people are not up for it, they rather just come here with empty comments whilst trying and sell us personal opinions as valuable information.

It's really funny when there's an actual discussion about a scheme going on, you'll have a couple of people taking an objective stance and actually providing with argumetns to make points and then you'll have a bunch of random people jumping in without having read anything on the topic and just asking everyone to shut up because they're good at the scheme.

A=B  B=C. If you claim the main reason people have to play hysteria is it being fun, the fact that hysteria is the most popular scheme mUst mean it's the most fun. Now, do you think any top 10 all arounder in this league has hysteria as their most enjoyable scheme? I highly doubt it. Why though? Because they can acutally play top level in every scheme and can compare, the people that pìck hysteria against top clans, not so much.

edit: Free, I did ask you to use the PM function if all you wanted to do is backseat moderate. So please do if you're still concerned but don't expect me to fall for that flame bait. If you so choose to be offtopic and speak about how unwitty, unfunny and uncanny ropa is I suggest you use the Offtopic forum or do the intelligent thing and keep it to yoruself, because hand ain't even listening.

[Free]

we pick hysteria because it's fun O= not because we have better chance to win in it compared to other schemes

Do you have any data to back this up? Or is this just what you want to believe and hope that by repeating it many times it eventually becomes true?
Can you elaborate? Why do you think "fun" is the reason and not "small learning curve therefore anyone can get decent at it and actually win games in a league"?

And what was it?
All I read was trying to make a funny remark.

Ok let me spoon feed you Free since you insist in talking about this particular subject in this particular thread for some particular reason.

SPW told us we were wasting time by making posts.

I made a similar claim in hopes he realizes how unecesary his original claim was.

If you have any more doubts use the PM function, unless you want to offer feedback on why Hysteria is so rarely picked by top clans and why is it so often picked against them, because quite frankly, that's all I'm interested in but for some reason people are not up for it, they rather just come here with empty comments whilst trying and sell us personal opinions as valuable information.

It's really funny when there's an actual discussion about a scheme going on, you'll have a couple of people taking an objective stance and actually providing with argumetns to make points and then you'll have a bunch of random people jumping in without having read anything on the topic and just asking everyone to shut up because they're good at the scheme.

It's bad enough that the data is there for anyone to see yet people insist on claiming hysteria is the most played scheme because it's the most fun. Really not buying into it, sorry.

Cut the drama crap already, your "witty remark" wasn't really that witty. If you would actually KNOW what your talking about, you'd know I've shared my opinion on this matter multiple times on this very thread.

You could also tune down how your the king of forum etiquette, you fall on the same traps you claim people "always do".

[MonkeyIsland]

Too many hysteria/roper threads.

The point you say that Hysteria is being picked more against high skilled players is true but noobs (as you call them) don't pick it just because it is a gamble scheme. That's not untrue, but that is not the entire thing:

1. Hysteria is the scheme kids today play. Elite isn't. New players have confidence in Hysteria because it is one of the most played scheme of theirs, ergo the scheme gets to be picked most. Your father may call you noob not being able to play Chess with him while you pick Tetris against him. A gamble game.
2. High skilled players, which are considered BnG/Elite/RR/Roper players mostly, don't take Hysteria seriously and don't bother to learn. I mean comon, who wants to learn Tetris when there is Chess? I am sure I can find hysteria games between pr0s and no0bs that pr0s lost because of very bad mistakes not because of  "gamble shots".
3. Our top clans consist of old players. People who are grown with classic schemes. Old players expect new ones to crawl back to them and learn the art of classic schemes. I don't think I've ever seen a new clan being welcome to the league.
4. Hysteria is picked because you can have fun and at least finish the game. Same goes for Intermediate. People don't give away free wins for Hysteria/Intermediate because they can play to the end no matter how low their skills are. But they do for TTRR/Roper.

If you think Hysteria is flawed, simply present your fixed scheme, or even better a replay of players played with that scheme and let us move on.