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May 23, 2024, 01:17 AM

Poll

What do you prefer most for TTRR league?

Make it the next scheme for TRL
Add a new league for TTRR
Play it in Classic league!!

Author Topic: Discussion about possible TTRR League???  (Read 12383 times)

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Offline TheKomodo

Re: Discussion about possible TTRR League???
« Reply #90 on: March 19, 2011, 08:10 PM »
You can't compare crucial moment of BnG to whole TTRR run. If we want to make it equal, then TTRR run is in its crucial moment as well, ok? By following this thinking, it's clear that when you're approaching the finish in TTRR any mistake will be fatal in consequences just like in BnG and probably any other game.

Well that is your opinion, and I disagree but it's cool, can't help having different opinions.

I uphold Nail's argumentation - so far 2 seperate leagues didn't affect activity on the Classic League and I think we can move on. You can always close TTRR League if it turn out to be a failure. The poll is on our side, weak but still. ;)

Yeah so far 2 Leagues have done well, but just remember even the worlds smartest, most intelligent and successful people can assume things wrong ;) but at least with all these new Leagues if one fails we can get rid of it.

Offline franz

Re: Discussion about possible TTRR League???
« Reply #91 on: March 19, 2011, 09:01 PM »
I dont like this idea.

The reason I dont pick ttrr as much as id like to for the classic league is becuase I dont get many points for it. I try to pick the scheme I get the most points for when I play the classic league.

People dont wanna mess with their classic league rank, if we did it this way it would also mean that people who only want to play ttrr or elite would have to reach the minimum games limit in order to make the playoffs.

If good players who dont want to take part in the classic league (like cue) were to ask for "TUS ttrr anyone", or spw "tus elite anyone", people would be less inclined to play them considering they dont want to risk their overall rank in that scheme.

If there was a seperate league with seperate rankings, people would be far more likely to play, knowing that those games will not infringe on their overall statistics.

The solution is simple to me, make another league for ttrr... what harm could it possibly do?

We've already confirmed that it wont affect classic league activity in any way, and there are a large number of players who want to have a ttrr league. Again, what harm could it possibly do!?

If it does indeed turn out to not be active, then we can just remove it... you cant lose! Make a ttrr league, there hasnt been one for ages and so many people want one so badly!

You're still thinking in the old system.. now in the new system, there is no point in "risking overall ranking."  It's only the seasonal rank that really matters. Overall is there only to be a guide, and to help distribute points. It doesn't directly affect one's seasonal performance.

Re: Discussion about possible TTRR League???
« Reply #92 on: March 19, 2011, 10:03 PM »
You can't compare crucial moment of BnG to whole TTRR run. If we want to make it equal, then TTRR run is in its crucial moment as well, ok? By following this thinking, it's clear that when you're approaching the finish in TTRR any mistake will be fatal in consequences just like in BnG and probably any other game.

Well that is your opinion, and I disagree but it's cool, can't help having different opinions.

If you want to compare situations from different schemes, at least put some effort to play them in similar conditions. You said that when you're playing BnG and you're under pressure you risk losing the game due to miss and that is correct. You either hit and win or miss and lose. Then you say that any mistake in TTRR is correctable. What if I'm about to finish my run and I badly calculated a swoosh and I lost some time due to hitting the wall? I obviously won't have any chances to fix this time loss since I have only 1/10 of the map left. Think about it.

Yeah so far 2 Leagues have done well, but just remember even the worlds smartest, most intelligent and successful people can assume things wrong ;) but at least with all these new Leagues if one fails we can get rid of it.

Eh? I just said that and you repeated my words, well done.

Re: Discussion about possible TTRR League???
« Reply #93 on: March 19, 2011, 10:10 PM »
You're still thinking in the old system.. now in the new system, there is no point in "risking overall ranking."  It's only the seasonal rank that really matters. Overall is there only to be a guide, and to help distribute points. It doesn't directly affect one's seasonal performance.

Yes, but as you said the overall rank acts as a guide and determines how seasonal points you will gain for each match. It still effects your overall rank as well, which many people will not want to do.

There are many players who only want to play elite or ttrr, it seems far better just to have an individual league with individual rankings than to do it all through the classic league.
worm and learn

Offline franz

Re: Discussion about possible TTRR League???
« Reply #94 on: March 20, 2011, 01:03 AM »
Yes, but as you said the overall rank acts as a guide and determines how seasonal points you will gain for each match. It still effects your overall rank as well, which many people will not want to do.

There are many players who only want to play elite or ttrr, it seems far better just to have an individual league with individual rankings than to do it all through the classic league.

"It still affects your overall rank as well, which many people will not want to do" -> That shouldn't be up to them. It doesn't matter what people think about their overall rank. It's not even there for their benefit or status. It's there for their opponents, to appropriately distribute points.

Sure it can be nice to view overall ratings for the people that are curious, but it shouldn't be something that's so important that it's untouchable. Letting people "not want to affect their overall ranking" and let them just sit on it seems to go against the spirit and point of the league. Why cater to those people?

Right now, we're moving toward splitting up games with every new league -> Classic/TEL/TRL/TTRRL/etc... and it just feels weird. Doesn't it feel more deserved that classic standings show the true overall ranking, that includes all classic schemes being played? Why should TEL elite games be treated differently than Classic elite games? Why should the exact same schemes be allowed to get reported in separate leagues?

I can see two sides of this working.. either keep creating separate leagues completely for ALL the classic schemes (Elite,Roper,TTRR,Hysteria,BnG,Team17,Shopper,WxW) and THEN somehow create the overall classic standings again by combining all of these results. Or bring everything back into the classic league and THEN extract the standings for each scheme that has deserved playoffs. The end result is very similar in both cases, mainly exact same schemes don't get repeated in separate leagues.

Re: Discussion about possible TTRR League???
« Reply #95 on: March 20, 2011, 03:41 AM »
M8 I respect ya, and I hear ya!

I didnt mean it like that either, I meant people just dont wanna risk overall points and classic league standings only playing a certain scheme. It would be more encouraging for many players if there was an individual league in which to play ttrr or elite or roper.

We arent at that stage yet though, right now we're talking about a league for ttrr, not every scheme!

We dont have sites like wel anymore, so its cool having an elite league here on tus. Note that a large number of players playing in the TEL dont play in the classic league, imo its much better keeping it separate.

Same would go if we had a ttrr league, there would be a large number of players only playing in the ttrr league and not in the classic league!

Separate league all the way!

worm and learn

Offline TheKomodo

Re: Discussion about possible TTRR League???
« Reply #96 on: March 20, 2011, 07:01 AM »
What if I'm about to finish my run and I badly calculated a swoosh and I lost some time due to hitting the wall? I obviously won't have any chances to fix this time loss since I have only 1/10 of the map left. Think about it.

Well, that's entirely your fault then and has nothing to do with anything, so tough luck, just because you can't understand what goes through my head when I BnG and I dunno what goes through yours when you TTRR doesn't automatically mean you and Cue and the TTRR community is more important or more League worthy or more "intense".

Yeah so far 2 Leagues have done well, but just remember even the worlds smartest, most intelligent and successful people can assume things wrong ;) but at least with all these new Leagues if one fails we can get rid of it.

Eh? I just said that and you repeated my words, well done.

No you never.

Re: Discussion about possible TTRR League???
« Reply #97 on: March 20, 2011, 11:14 AM »
I'm extremely motivated by this poll.

62 people would welcome the creation of a TTRR league.

Awesome! :D

Offline TheKomodo

Re: Discussion about possible TTRR League???
« Reply #98 on: March 20, 2011, 11:16 AM »
And I voted it to be next scheme in TRL xD

Re: Discussion about possible TTRR League???
« Reply #99 on: March 20, 2011, 11:17 AM »
I meant people just dont wanna risk overall points and classic league standings only playing a certain scheme. It would be more encouraging for many players if there was an individual league in which to play ttrr or elite or roper.

Classic league standings are determined by their seasonal points now, not their overall rating. It doesn't matter if your overall rating is 3000 or 800 anymore, whether you are eligible for playoffs or not.

Overall standings are there for one thing only now: displaying someone's strength in that scheme. And secondary to that, you can calculate how many points one earns/loses for his seasonal standings whenever you beat/lose to someone.

Komo, if you can't make your point without using BnG, then your point is probably not worth making. BnG and RR are completely different thing, it's like making a point about anti-semitism by using an example of a chinese kid bullying a black kid.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: Discussion about possible TTRR League???
« Reply #100 on: March 20, 2011, 11:21 AM »
Yeah yeah D1 w/e lol, that's your opinion, of course I can :P

Re: Discussion about possible TTRR League???
« Reply #101 on: March 20, 2011, 11:29 AM »
I think it's an opinion that is shared by many ;) Why won't you take up my challenge then?

Offline TheKomodo

Re: Discussion about possible TTRR League???
« Reply #102 on: March 20, 2011, 11:31 AM »
It's still just an opinion :P

I'd never successfully pass your challenge and you know it xD

Offline Anubis

Re: Discussion about possible TTRR League???
« Reply #103 on: March 21, 2011, 02:32 PM »
Note: I don't want to insult anyone here nor do I want to continue this off-topic. (In my opinion it's not that off-topic, but yeah)

I just want to point out some things.

First of all: In essence they are totally different, but also totally the same!


Here's why.

In TTRR you only have 3 chances to win the game, in BnG you have INFINITE chances to win the game.
To compare TTRR and BnG you either would need to have only 3 turns in BnG or set the amount of HP to 50 or at least make 16 tries on a TTRR game (both teams use 2 Teams of 8 worms for example). TTRR is a contest, you have 3 turns, make the best of it, BnG is a lot more tactics (in TuS, a2b is a different story since there are no normal conditions applied), taking advantage of the terrain (lower angle shots for less f@#! ups while still avoiding sitters).
And in terms of cheap play, there is also an actual 'lame' strategy to win TTRR/RR games, it's called pole extensions to move up all walls, most short horizontal parts it's comparable to those low angle shots that bounce a bit before exploding NEAR your enemy, sure you won't get 40+ hits all the time, but you will hit more often, just like you will get to finish most of the time with pole/rope extensions roping in TTRR. The skilled player can move faster but can also f@#! up more often. Mablak CAN lose vs. a worse TTRR player if Mablak goes for the best roping he has, Komodo CAN lose vs. a worse BnG player (in TuS League) if Komodo goes for his best shots while the other player goes for the 'lame' (I would call them safe) shots.

So in my opinion both schemes are skillful and both have it's value, and yeah both even have cheap play available.

Why do you wonder TTRR challenges have better times than actually live games on W:A Tus? Why are there almost always never best times uploaded from replays other than offline? People rope better when they have infinite tries, it's just the difference that in BnG you either have so called good shots (LG, Zook, Bank shots) or so called lame shots (low angle with bounce to enemy) In RR you can chose if you want to play safe or fast and more risky without risking your good name. Both LOOK equally nice, but in essence it's the same.

Just the community made up big walls for BnG about nice/cheap play while in RR noone complains to Mablak if he wins a map with 45 seconds instead of 39 what he usually can. But everyone would complain to Komodo if he chooses to play safe.

That's my view.

Edit: And one more thing that I forgot to add:

What would you say if you win a BnG match because of one awesome shot? And after that you never hit again. It would suck!
What would you say if you win a TTRR game with 3 not so good turns while your opponent made the map's fastest time at that given time? It would suck!

Their mechanic is different. TTRR is just about one turn, BnG is still losable even after 2-3 awesome turns. If you do an awesome turn in TTRR you are safe while you are not in BnG.

So if you want to compare them take into consideration that 1 turn can make you win RR while BnG takes 10-12 good turns and the opponent has an option to interrupt your awesome shots with moving your worm. In TTRR your opponent has no direct impact on you, just that if you know your opponent has xy time you have to move faster than that. It's a mental thing. :)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 02:43 PM by DeathInFire »

Offline Dub-c

Re: Discussion about possible TTRR League???
« Reply #104 on: March 21, 2011, 03:12 PM »

And in terms of cheap play, there is also an actual 'lame' strategy to win TTRR/RR games, it's called pole extensions to move up all walls, most short horizontal parts

That's my view.

This has to be a level. No one could actually believe this lol
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