Intermediate and Classic league

[MonkeyIsland]

Hello,

I'll be releasing a new version of leagues at the start of season #27. It won't be a completely new plan since some of you wanna marry the current system/concept. But new calculations and new formulas will be added and there will be more angles to look at players' performances.

However in the next 2 months, I'll gather modifications in schemes as well.
Back to the subject of this topic, 3 years ago Intermediate was part of Classic and after debates, 50% of the community disagreed and long story short, we removed Intermediate from Classic league. I've opened this topic to see how today's community think about Intermediate and its worthiness to be in Classic league. Personally I think Intermediate is more accepted than before.

One of the common questions about Intermediate is that it is a bo3 game and it could take a while or that Classic league is a place for bo1 schemes.

A poll is attached to see how the general opinion is about. The vote result will be considered on how we treat Intermediate in the new plan. It is NOT about more vote and winning the poll.
If you think Intermediate must be here but must be tweaked first, please post your idea. Please note that by tweak I mean general rules of league regards Intermediate, NOT changing the scheme in a major way.

So do you think Intermediate must be in Classic league?

[Dulek]

Let me put my humble 2 cents into here. I'd like to see Intermediate now in Classic league but indeed tweaked. BO3 games might scary a lot of players and result in denying playing it. BO1 is one option and to make it as fair as possible, how about playing it with cavern map obligatory?

[lacoste]

Cavern doesnt neccesarly mean balance. Yes, statistically, when raped by placement, you will have more chances to force SD and wait for final blow just like on T17, but all that at the cost of entertainment. I personally find it silly (in most of the cases, coz sometimes the SD part in cavern is really tense). Bo1 island is lottery much more than any other competitive scheme, 1 unlucky placement will cost you a round no matter what when playing vs good player. On the other hand island has that depth which makes it much more fun than cavern to me. Best of 3 surely wont work, its easily 1h without draws.

[avirex]

I enjoy inter, but by no means am i pro... So maybe this idea wont work for reasons i have not thought of...

But obviously bo3 is a problem for tus league, not many ppl wanna play 3 long games to only earn 1 win...

So why cant we change the random placement, and have tele placements? It will still be the same scheme, just less luck at the start....

[Dulek]

Yeah, I've got this in my mind, lacoste, that's why I said 'to make it as fair as possible'.

I agree that cavern maps are boring. What I wouldn't like to do it to tweak the scheme itself but it might be a necessity. Freezing select worm for the first turn (or turns) could partly protect the worm from multiple kills in certain cases (but again some luck must be done with proper placements). Same would go with a possibility to switch your worms with tab at the beginning of each turn, having this freezed for some time could be useful as well. But this sadly isn't possible without 3rd party tools like Wormkit or stuff I guess (I'm not really into it) and classic means classic without using additional tools, just raw WA.exe.

[Impossible]

I vote yes, cuz inter is the most popular scheme all time on worms etc etc. And make tele before start its very bad idea actually,  place 16 worms will take time, and then kill them on their pr0 hides, this will take more time then play bo3

[Hussar]

intermediate YES, but only bo1.

[lacoste]

Intermediate just needs separate league (for best of 3/5) if you want it to be fair. Include it as best of 1 at the cost of inaccurate ratings or risk best of 3, where difference in game lenght is incomparable to other schemes. Scheme changes are out of the question, jeez.

[MonkeyIsland]

TenoriTaiga suggest playing bo1 with giving the option of refuse/restart the map for better placement. He said only one time refuse allowed.

bo3 length shouldn't be THAT much of a problem. Hysteria and BnG could take up an hour.

[lacoste]

TenoriTaiga suggest playing bo1 with giving the option of refuse/restart the map for better placement. He said only one time refuse allowed.

It could work in rough situations (like 3-4 worms being piled badly) but then it also brings other problems such as continous restarts even thought placement wasnt bad or that map after restart doesnt have to be better. Giving it a rule (to restart only in worst scenarios) will then produce complains, i bet.

bo3 length shouldn't be THAT much of a problem. Hysteria and BnG could take up an hour.

Id better compare it to t17 with draws - but then im not a fan of league t17. Hyst and BnG is long only when players want it to be long or miss every shot.

[GreatProfe]

intermediate and elite are schemes kinda similar.

so i believe intermediate dont deserve a place in classic league.

but i am curious about what TUS wants to say about it so i voted "yes"

ps: i love intermediate scheme  

[KoreanRedDragon]

TenoriTaiga suggest playing bo1 with giving the option of refuse/restart the map for better placement. He said only one time refuse allowed.

One problem I can see with that is that in practice, you wouldn't only be refusing the placements, you would also be refusing the fact that it was your opponent who got first turn. And then if you got lucky and got first turn in the second round, your opponent could do the same and hope he gets first turn in the third round. So in the end, you aren't achieving a lot, just wasting even more time.

[MonkeyIsland]

Also there's been this idea around to make Intermediate to get picked only if both players agree on it. In playoffs it could be just as other schemes. But in normal games, opponent could refuse to play it.

[Husk]

Also there's been this idea around to make Intermediate to get picked only if both players agree on it. In playoffs it could be just as other schemes. But in normal games, opponent could refuse to play it.

if opponent can ban us from picking intermediate, we should be allowed to ban a scheme from our opponent to pick?

[darKz]

Though I'm not active right now (I do plan to come back later this year) I'd like to see Inter in Classic League again. It is a very skillful and versatile scheme, there's tons of tactics and hardskills like "notching" mines etc involved.

The problem with the obligatory bo3'ing could be solved if Inter had a wider point gain range, i.e. you win ~40 points for any scheme against an opponent with the same rating, but since Inter is bo3 you'd gain ~80 points for a win against opponents with same rating. Just a suggestion that could make it more worthwhile to waste a lot of time on a set.