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Author Topic: League scheme change (Aerial)  (Read 2548 times)

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Offline Sensei

League scheme change (Aerial)
« on: December 14, 2023, 07:32 PM »
Hello all.
MonkeyIsland already approved it, so current Aerial TUS scheme will be changed to a modified, more competitive one.

Current: https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-312/
New: https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-2175/ (BO3 mandatory)


This thread is started just because I want to hear community's opinion on crates. Right now, they're still in the scheme.

1. Should I leave them in, since they've been there since PS1 days and they do make a visible change when compared to Hysteria? Without crates, my opinion is that they would be quite similar and there's no reason to have that in a single league.

2.  Should I leave them in, but change % probabilities of some strong weapons/utilities.. And if yes, which % you'd choose and why? (after clicking scheme link, at the right side of the screen, you'll see all percentages that are there right now)

3.  Should they be completely removed?



As stated many times before, throughout years - this scheme is thoroughly tested and played by hundreds since its modification back in 2016. I believe majority of people that played it would vouch for it to become a new league scheme and it finally will. All that is needed now is your opinion about crates situation. Please do not derail this thread in some drama affair or go and speak about different schemes and their placement in leagues. It's for Aerial and Aerial solely.


Changes from current league scheme:

* Rounds are changed from BO1 to BO3
* Sudden death added (middle level of water rise)
* Mines switched from random to 3 seconds
* Uzi removed
* Mortars switched from 4 to 2
* Petrols switched from 4 to 2


Thank you all.

Online TheWalrus

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2023, 07:38 PM »
can utilities be disabled?  its either damage x2 which hardly ever works, useless laser sight, or silly ass invis.  That's my biggest issue with drops.  If you can tweak it to drop certain weapons that would be the best thing, no donkey or mikes would be good.  Makes the scheme less competitive.  SD should be the norm, ofc.  I think everyone agrees on that point, and also 3sec mines are a must, thats the worst part of tus scheme.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2023, 07:39 PM »
Usually I'd vote for #3 immediately, #2 is an interesting choice as well...

My main issue with crates, currently at least, is that they can dramatically change the outcome of a match and to me that's considered lucky. Of course, I don't like luck suddenly changing, or at the very least, having a major impact on the outcome of a match.

Though, if the crate probabilities were changed to be closer to let's say, the TUS WxW scheme, so things like HHG, invisibility and others are removed. That luck wouldn't matter.

Then again if the luck became such a way it had no effect, then why have it at all?

Guess I'll just stick with #3 after all.

1 question though, why best of 3?

I like how this looks though, could I suggest making the Bo3 optional though? Or at least agreeable to Bo1 with opponents also please.

Online TheWalrus

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2023, 07:54 PM »
Oh yeah im not in favor of any scheme being bo3 in league except inter and even that id prefer bo1

Offline Sensei

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2023, 08:20 PM »
@walrus - if you hover/jump over utility at the end of your 5sec retreat time, what you collect can be used in your next turn (then x2 dmg, double turn time, invisibility, lg.. comes in handy.. even OP). Although, that kind of tactic can result in picking up something meaningless like fast walk and then you risked your hiding position for nothing.. which is quite amusing and gives these crate crate drops real meaning.. to even pick it up at the right time to get transfered in 2nd round already requires lot of skill and training.

@komo - bo3 is mandatory cause random placements and addition of sudden death. It really is benefitial for scheme like this. Both players need to start first in at least 1 game, it's the fair way. Since sudden death is on, round can last up to maximum of 12 minutes if I recall right.. in worst case scenario - BO3 will last up to 36 minutes (which will never really happen).. While there are games of BnG that can take up to 45+ minutes sometimes.. Kaos games probably even more. Intermediate probably also.. I guess you see where I'm going with this.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2023, 09:04 PM »
Why not try to make Aerial suitable for Bo1 then?

I'm on the "Bo3 matches suck" boat.

Offline FoxHound

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Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2023, 11:55 PM »
Well, I don't have much experience playing Aerial, but it is an amazing scheme, and I enjoy it. I plan in the future playing more Aerial. Despite my inexperience playing the scheme, I must say that I do have experience balancing schemes and creating schemes. So, I would like to give my opinion, and I think you should consider it:

About the crates, recently I played that Intermediate tournament that was the real and official Intermediate, not the ONL or CWT scheme. It was an interesting experience playing it competitively. The first thing that caught my attention is that the crates have an impactful effect during the game, specially the fact that they can explode. When you see a crate near an enemy, you have a dilema: should I take the crate and risk finding a shitty weapon, should I take the crate and try to get that powerful weapon that will lead me to the comeback I'm needing? Or should I just explode that crate and burn the enemy worm to secure a kill or a good damage?

I like the possibilities and game-changing things that the crates add to the game. Crates bring more diversity, make players think more what they should do, since the situation can change a lot from one turn to the next one.  At the same time something completely unpredictable on a scheme is bad, way too much luck is bad. I don't like the original "Kaos Normal" scheme, because that scheme is completely unbalanced. Anything going in the Kaos Normal direction would be bad in my opinion, but some crates would be cool, because I think they combine well with a scheme centered on Jet Pack skills and short time. My scheme Jet Pack War is similar to Aerial and has a lot of crates, I like to collect crates with Jet Pack on schemes like this.

I'm against utilities in crates. One of the reasons I enjoy Neocombat is that it doesn't have utility crates. It is unfortunate that WA doesn't have much control in utility crates, so Damage x2, Double Turn Time, Invisibility, Laser Sight can spawn when usually scheme makers would want more Jet Pack and Low Gravity in utility crates. Kaos mod is a workaround that honestly is far from the ideal, so I think even using Kaosmod settings for utility crates wouldn't be sufficient in terms of good balance. That's why I don't want to see utility crates in Aerial. At least until 3.9 or other version that brings inovations to the scheme makers work.

About the original Aerial scheme, I never played WA in PS1, so I never played and I'm not sure exactly what is the feeling of playing the original PS1 Aerial. I didn't know it has crates, I wonder if the crates are rare or common, and the weapon probabilities... All I know is that it has 45 seconds of turn time and infinite grenade, so it surely was completely different from HHC's scheme called Aerial and Sensei's variation (modification) of it.

I like Sudden Death in schemes. I agree that Aerial has a very short playing time, so bo3 is not a bad idea, specially if the scheme has some luck factors such as bad spawnings and crates.  Although, I like playing bo1 games. bo3 sometimes force people to play the same thing again, when they want to diversify things a bit. I think in leagues it wouldn't be so cool to play 3 rounds to receive a single victory. 3 rounds are 3 rounds, 3 different games, so all the games should be counted. In this sense, I think I prefer bo1 Aerial.

The weapons probabilities in the crates are strange for me. Banana and Super weapons seem very OP for aerial. I think they could be removed. Weapons that when found give x3 ammo like Cluster Bomb, Girders, or petrol that gives x2 ammo, seem to have way too much chance. I know that in Sensei's scheme crates are rare. I don't know if it would be better with more crates spawning on the map or keeping them rare. I think only weapons that require some skill to play and are not way too much OP should appear in crates. The weapons in crates should be different from the ones that players start with some ammo. Maybe only a few crates containg more ammo for already in inventory weapons. I think Axe, should be rare, or removed from crates. It is an early game weapon and melee, it doesn't make so much sense to me, since, health crates are very rare too and give only 25 HP.

Aerial without crates would cut a bit of the luck and make it more "competitive" maybe, it wouldn't be bad. But, the crates would bring fun to it, in my opinion.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2023, 12:10 AM by FoxHound »
I doubt you see this link moving below (you will have to zoom in. If you click at it, you will have maden the impossible):
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Offline FoxHound

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Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2023, 02:12 AM »
I changed my mind about bo3. I played Aerial to test the scheme, the scheme is very short, and start positions matter. bo1 would mean that whoever starts would have an advantage. Best of 3 solves the problem. It's better for aerial.
I doubt you see this link moving below (you will have to zoom in. If you click at it, you will have maden the impossible):
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Offline MonkeyIsland

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2023, 06:08 AM »
I'm in favor for BO3 as well but "mandatory" means we have to watch bo1 games and void them. We don't do that. Intermediate is BO3 but sometimes players report as BO1. We could set the default as BO3 and BO1 upon agreement.
Due to massive misunderstandings: MonkeyIsland refers to an island not a monkey. I would be a monkey, if my name was IslandMonkey meaning a monkey who is or lives on an island. MonkeyIsland is an island which is related to monkeys. Also there's been a legend around saying MonkeyIsland is a game. So please, think of me as an island or a game.

Offline Sensei

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2023, 10:41 AM »
Ah, no, didn't mean to say that then. I'm always in favour of players mutually agreeing on stuff.
Bo3 by default was the word I was looking for, thx MI.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2023, 06:43 PM »
As long as it's sort of optional, that's fine. :)

Offline Senator

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2023, 09:33 PM »
I'm voting for 3. Crates are rare so they don't really make much of a difference to Hysteria. Aerial and Hysteria are different enough with or without crates. Crates seem like unnecessary luck element to me.

Was Bo1 a big problem in the current TUS scheme? If SD makes a difference, increase the round time?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2023, 10:46 PM by Senator »

Online TheWalrus

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2023, 11:43 PM »
I'm landing on no crates, bo1, longer round time.  Bo3 by agreement, but most schemes are bo1 and makes for a better league serving of 2 games of tus total per match.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2023, 01:32 AM »
For what it's worth, I'm with TheWalrus here.

Bo1 rounds and no crates.

I don't understand why anyone would even want crate drops in a scheme where they already have sufficient means to annhilate their enemy.

They are pretty rare, but I've seen HHGs and Sheep etc in crates in Aerial, which can definitely turn the tide of a game.

Even if you get a useless weapon in a crate, it still changes the outcome of the game as the player now has to play differently to try and adapt for all the weapons you COULD have. Which is another reason why it sucks and why it should be removed imo.

Re: League scheme change (Aerial)
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2023, 09:01 AM »
Just edit HHC aerial scheme SD and crates off. bo1 or what ever agreed.