What's the sense of TNL?

[Ivo]

Really, nobody plays it. And, of course it's not a scheme problem, because NNNL (ONL) is with a great activity.
I don't see a sense to put intermediate in a separate and dedicated league. It seems a bit a scheme discrimination  

But the strongest fact is that almost nobody plays it. And yeah, that's a fact. So, why not put intermediate in one of other 2 leagues?
About that, my opinion is classic league because, if one scheme is classic, that's scheme is intermediate. You know that. The game was built around this scheme and it's the most classic and with the biggest number of lovers at WormNet (if you take into account the number of players that play it at ONL or just for fun).
So, I think that TUS will get much more worth if you re-put the inter scheme into the classic league again.
I suggest to play it as bo3 but, if both players aren't in agreement to play a bo3 game (time issues, or others) it's obligate to play the bo1 game with a complex enough cave map.
 
 

[TitiO]

i dont like ground games, but is a good ideia, cuz intermediate is the original and most classic scheme of the wa =P, and the most played by "noobs" too, if intermediate was add to classic, i think that so much more players will came to TUS.

[Csongi]

NO way!
in worst case move it to free 

[Ivo]

NO way!
in worst case move it to free 

Can you give a better effort to the discussion, saying why you don't agree, instead of just saying "No way!"? 

[Csongi]

well,I belive there's a good reason why normal was removed from classic leauge,and TNL was made.
If people don't want to play TNL,it's their problem...u still got that onl stuff
ATM. there are 8 classic schemes :
-4 with rope:Shoppa.WxW.TTRR.Roper
-4 defaults  :BnG,Hysteria,T17,Elite
Many players aren't good all-rounders...some prefer Rope schemes,some the default ones,and the actual system is pretty balanced imho.
If normal would be moved to the classic leauge,everybody would start with 1000 points at normal,(+40 for a win/-40 for a loss)there would be 5 default schemes and that would really turn in an advantage for the players who prefer/are good in default schemes...
that's my point of view

[darKz]

Ivo, I said this a couple of times before, most people agree that it's necessary to play Inter bo3.. And a bo3 Inter being a single pick is just too much, it could take 1,5h at worst.. Compared to other classic schemes it's a bit off and therefore IMO it needs its own league.

[MonkeyIsland]

You can discuss putting Intermediate on Free league or Classic all you want, I'll listen and see where it goes. But as for TNL, it will be removed at the start of classic league season #17, and TEL will start. (TUS Elite league)

[Ivo]

Admit that TNL didn't worked and remove it, it's already a step forward IMO.
So, I guess that TUS will not completely ignore the most loved scheme of WN and must put it in one of two leagues (classic or free). So, I guess that the question now is only where to put it.

Can you have better argument that intermediate is the most classic schemes of all?  
I respect your opinion Csongi, but I really think there isn't a minimum of sense making comparisons of 4 vs 5 rope/default schemes. But if it's necessary to put intermediate at classic league, I'll vote to add another rope scheme to balance it and makes it 5vs5. Probably tower race (one of the most rope lovers schemes currently), or the icon fly shopper. Or if elite says out the classic league the problem is solved (didn't get if with the elite league, it will be part of classic league anyway or not).

darKz, I understand your argument because intermediate is particular scheme. But MonkeyIsland already confirmed that TNL the dedicated intermediate league, is no longer an option. About time issue, that's why I made my previous suggestion. If the player who didn't suggest the intermediate scheme in the classic league, don't have the time to play a bo3 game, he could demand a cave map (with a fair complexity) as a bo1 game. I think this solve the problem. Anyway, since one player see the layout of the map and light on the lamp, he is agreeing with the map.

[NAiL]

weeee sounds good! TEL ne1? TEL anyone? yeh I like it!

We've had this discussion many times before (threads somewhere), and the general agreement is that inter should not be added to the classic league. Reason being is that inter needs to be played a minimum of bo3, and not everyone wants to play a bo3 game of inter as part of a classic league match. We then said ok you can play bo1 if you dont agree to bo3, but that didnt work out either seeing as most of us agree that inter needs to be played a minimum of bo3.

Dont see a problem with it being added to the free league with a choice of either bo1/3/5.

[Ivo]

This argument really don't convince me 
If you'll play bo1 at a fair complex cave, start positions will determine the winer in less than 5%. Who does not agree with it, really don't know all issues of the scheme.
You have much more lucky schemes, like T17.

[avirex]

i would like to see inter added to the classic scheme list... right along with roper, elite, t17 etc.

inside a cavern map so first turn does not get 3 or 4 plops, would make it all skill, and bo1 would be fine...



i only have one question tho Ivo.... why dont we change intermediate scheme so that u can place ur worms b4 game? like in elite.....   wouldnt that solve the placement issue?....  orrrr is there some reasoning behind the random placement that im not understanding?

[Ivo]

avirex, that's completely different subject, already very discussed. To be very very brief, I can tell you that without random placements, the scheme loose many of it's magic. The random placement is like a puzzle that was give to both players and that they must think about it pondering what they think it's the best tactical moves. That's why you must use your 3 Worms Select's with wisdom. And that wisdom can be decisive in many games.

[avirex]

i understand it was a different subject, but it was still a question i had...

and now i see the answer.... its all about the magic.. silly me

[TitiO]

TEL =/ ..

when we will have the TRL (roper league) ?

[Ivo]

Now, with the new patch 3.30, that has a Jet Pack delay of 2 turns (like the original intermediate), it makes even less critical the 1st turn. It's not so easy to make multiple kills.