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Author Topic: The Big Religion/God Debate  (Read 38526 times)

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Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #315 on: July 23, 2012, 05:33 PM »
Many many people have been trying to isolate and observe genuine supernatural events for decades.  Yet you claim that they are pretty regular occurrences for those who take this Ayahuasca.

If someone actually verified the supernatural events you are talking about then it would have a huge huge impact on our current understanding of the world.

Perhaps all those who have attempted to prove the existence of things like remote viewing and telepathy but failed should know about this Ayahuasca.  It really does sound like this chemical substance could overturn everything we understand about the physical laws of the universe.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 05:41 PM by Cueshark »

Offline Rok

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #316 on: July 23, 2012, 05:52 PM »
Not sure if serious. #Cueshark on #godplant
chakkman> if rok was a girl i d marry the bitch lolz

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #317 on: July 23, 2012, 06:34 PM »
Well to be honest Im impressed that free tried to verify the supernatural abilities he temporarily possessed but I do question the controls he used.  There are potential flaws in the experiment in my opinion.  Would be happy to go through them if free is open minded enough to be able to look critically at his own views.  I also will be happy to reverse my view points in the same way.

Offline Ramone

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #318 on: July 24, 2012, 12:18 AM »
It's just my experience, not the "ultimate truth".. I sincerely hope that anyone of "you" will "understand" this. :)
...

When you were explaining it you were talking about "ABSOLUTE CORE TRUTH" and few posts later you say that it is not the "ultimate truth" but just your experience... So you're not sure yourself is it truth or not, right?

As I've seen on Google, that Ayahuasca stuff is well known in the whole wide world.. There's a medical and scientific researches, there's forums of ppl that's trippin' on it, there's a whole lot of stuff about it.. Must be thousands of ppl that's using it or had experience with it.. That makes me wonder, how comes that no one has ever got to the idea to make an experiment with it and prove its "powers"?
Simple, get the trusted commission/jury that would be witnesses, a guy that use Ayahuasca and make him guess what's behind the wall. Make a video of that and BAM! - there's a scientific proof that "remote view" exists! That the "soul" can "see with it's own eyes" independently outside of the body! That would (figuratively) show the middle finger to all the science that has been comprehended by this day.
But you can't do that. No one can.
And that's the difference between facts and assumptions, between science and beliefs..

Still free, if you think that you can do that experience again, lets crash some science together? We could gather some trusted jury like Cueshark, ropa, DarkOne and Rok and we could do it. I have a camera. We would become world famous mofos and not to mention that we would take a bunch of money out of it!  :P
Hawaii here I come!!! :D

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #319 on: July 24, 2012, 12:24 AM »
If such powers were observed under rigid scientific controls and replicated consistently then it would be the greatest paradigm shifting breakthrough that has ever happened in the world.

And Free was kinda sounding like he was saying "Supernatural powers?  It's just how I roll"

To be honest I don't think he is genuinely serious otherwise he would have at least contacted the James Randi Educational Federation (JREF) who offer $1,000,000 to anyone who can demonstrate such powers as Free claimed to possess under MUTUALLY agreed upon test controls.

I would be excited as f@#! and get famous etc.

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #320 on: July 24, 2012, 01:08 AM »
I have been able. Was a roof, not a machine, but the same. I'd say the surface I could see was more or less 25 meters around me.
And this was happenning when I was feeling the noise, not just hearing (always happenned during my absences): that might be why I could listen all the conversations at once.

If you ever find yourself in such a situation again, ask them to write a number on a piece of paper and put that on top of the anesthesiology equipment (without telling you which number it was) :)
A 2 or 3 digit number would be good, so guessing it would be hard, but you'd still be able to remember the number. A word could work as well.

That's how you find out whether your experience was the real deal or not :)

Offline TheKomodo

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #321 on: July 24, 2012, 06:50 AM »
Yah i'm totally with Cue's logic on this one, you are making it sound more "proven" than it actually is, and I honestly believe IF it was real, someone would have proven it already.

Free - My HONEST opinion, I got HUUUUUGE f@#!ing respect for you, for being so open and confident about your views, you are saying the same stuff that people used to get killed for believing in, if you were being shy and trying to hide it, that'd be really weird, but you clearly enjoy life this way, and at the end of the day doesn't matter what anyone does or thinks, it's YOUR damn life, if this is how you enjoy it, do it.

Offline Free

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #322 on: July 24, 2012, 06:58 AM »
FFS I just wrote a big ass reply and pressed some ctrl+ combination which closed the whole tab.

I'll get back at this later, I really need to get going.

By the way, I'm not claiming I'm a superman or anything :DD I just said what other might people might experience as supernatural, falls into natural category for me, I'm not claiming I can do them at will or anything. Felt like you guys we're twisting my words a little bit so I had to clear this out.

Here's food for thought when it comes to telepathy, copied from the ayahuasca thread I linked in my last post.

"Looking for telepathy is like the fish looking for the water -- or even more, like the water looking for the water. You could say in a very true sense that we are made of telepathy. We are creating this world together out of our shared web of telepathy. Shared not only with other humans, but with all life forms -- though since our telepathy is only partial with other life forms, we experience this world in a different way than a tree, an insect or a cloud does. In our sleeping dreams, it is easier to visit each other as individuals, because we can recognize each other more easily outside of the groupmind consensus world. It's like, the stars shine during the day, too, but you can't see them till it gets dark. Your saying, "Tell me what object I am thinking of" is a little like saying "Point to the star Algeiba" in broad daylight. The fleeting, surface kind of thought you are focusing on is the kind that takes the greatest degree of sensitive connection between two people, because it is so light and changeable, no emotional impact whatsoever, almost nonexistent. A purely mental thought with no emotion behind it barely ripples the surface of the water, let alone stir the deep currents at the telepathy level.

Telepathy works best when going unnoticed, taken for granted. When I was young my sister and I used to practice telepathy intentionally, and we found consistently that it worked least well when we were "trying" to do it, and best when it went something like, "Hey, what animal am I looking at a picture of?" "I'm busy, I'm not in the mood to do it now." "Come on, just guess something!" "I told you, I don't feel like trying it now!" "Come on, guess something!" "I don't know, a lion! Now quit bugging me!"

If you were to pay close attention to your fellow humans, you would see casual unconscious telepathy happening among friends and family members constantly. We are a species that forms telepathic bonds and needs their nourishment to survive. It's only when you start getting self-conscious about it that it starts becoming like the caterpillar considering how to run.

This world is created directly from our consciousness, much the same as our sleeping dreams.

The difference between sleeping dreams and consensus reality, though, is that our sleeping dreams are our individual domains, and the consensus world is woven by all of us together, through our telepathic consensus that is constantly discussing among itself how it wants this world to be. That is why consensus reality is more stable than individual dream realities. It is one telepathy that is experiencing via infinite points of view, each point of view unique. The only thing that makes you and me "different individuals" is the fact that we are different points of view, having different experiences and histories.

Through the spaces, the threads of telepathy weave together to weave a world. If there were no distance between our points of view, if we were all only one point of view, there would be no loom upon which to weave this world. The consensus world is more stable and hard to change than sleeping dreams because it is a collective creation of many distinct points of view, weaving their energy patterns (created of thought, experience, memory, expectation and belief) together.

If we were not connected, the "world" would not exist. Not even our individual sleeping dream worlds would exist, because without a consensus world through which to gain experience, we could not be individual viewpoints processing experience, and without individuation of viewpoints, there would be nothing to create sleeping dream worlds.

You suggest someone try to catch an ephemeral gnat of a thought from the surface of your individuated mind, while not considering the awesomeness of the telepathic ocean of which you are a part of the One Mind."

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #323 on: July 24, 2012, 09:23 AM »
Woah, that stuff is so like deep and spiritual.  Kinda like how we can all connect together in a universal way.  Because on a quantum level particles can act in really mysterious ways and scientists don't know everything.  I loved the stuff about the fish looking for water and the water looking for the water.  Was really deep and people that don't think telepathy is real have obviously never felt and experienced it.

The other day I was sitting there and I thought of my friend Ian.  And then he called.  And we all do that. Why???  Because we're all telepathic.

But when we try and test it in a laboratory then obviously it won't work.  You can't just take away all the human elements of the quantum world and stick it inside a test tube.  Those bloody scientists with their 'controls' and their 'double blinded' experiments.  Double blinded?  I say double schminded.

Also, considering we only use 10% of our brain isn't it obvious what the other 90% is for?  Eh? EH?


Offline Rok

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #324 on: July 24, 2012, 09:50 AM »
If you were to pay close attention to your fellow humans, you would see casual unconscious telepathy happening among friends and family members constantly. We are a species that forms telepathic bonds and needs their nourishment to survive. It's only when you start getting self-conscious about it that it starts becoming like the caterpillar considering how to run.

These things are behavioural patterns, thinking patterns, there's no telephaty in it, it's just the way our brain is wired. There's a simple trick I don't know the details of - you write "hammer" and "table" on a piece of paper, then you're asking a person some convoluted weird questions, leading their mind elsewhere and suddenly yell: "Name an object!". 90% of people will say either hammer or table and then you show them the words written. BAM, TELEPHATY! Um, no, not really.

The other day I was sitting there and I thought of my friend Ian.  And then he called.  And we all do that. Why???  Because we're all telepathic.

Yeah, but how many times have you thought about Ian and he never called? Why doesn't Alex Fergusson ever call when you think about him? Out of about 150 people humans are capable of having in their intimate social network, one of them will call you someday right at the moment you're thinking about them... If you're gonna think about your mother all day, it might happen every day...  :-X  

"Speak of the devil...", "Hablando del rey de Roma",  "うわさをすれば影”, "Mi o volku, volk na vratih!"... sounds familiar?  :)
chakkman> if rok was a girl i d marry the bitch lolz

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #325 on: July 24, 2012, 10:11 AM »
I think I know Cueshark well enough to reply with this picture, Rok :)


Offline Rok

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #326 on: July 24, 2012, 10:23 AM »
Yeah yeah, I posted just in case... :) Also:

chakkman> if rok was a girl i d marry the bitch lolz

Offline Abnaxus

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #327 on: July 24, 2012, 10:23 AM »
If you ever find yourself in such a situation again, ask them to write a number on a piece of paper and put that on top of the anesthesiology equipment (without telling you which number it was) :)
A 2 or 3 digit number would be good, so guessing it would be hard, but you'd still be able to remember the number. A word could work as well.
I'm not really able to talk to someone in that situation, don't you remember I'm high in the sky ? <.<

And btw, those things stopped many years ago, and I really wish it could happen more so I could analyze it, but it doesn't.
From current days, it only happenned once, but was when I gave up wanting new ones (saying it would never happen again). So when it did happen, I was so chocked I couldn't analyze it clearly.

Telepathy works best when going unnoticed, taken for granted. When I was young my sister and I used to practice telepathy intentionally, and we found consistently that it worked least well when we were "trying" to do it, and best when it went something like, "Hey, what animal am I looking at a picture of?" "I'm busy, I'm not in the mood to do it now." "Come on, just guess something!" "I told you, I don't feel like trying it now!" "Come on, guess something!" "I don't know, a lion! Now quit bugging me!"
Yes, and I believe that when you're focusing on telepathy, in fact you're not focusing on the good thing (and so "you" can't focus on the real one).
But when you don't, your mind is up to focus on it (if it happens).
And if it's an important (emotionnaly) event, then the wave gonna be strong enough so it can take the priority.

If you were to pay close attention to your fellow humans, you would see casual unconscious telepathy happening among friends and family members constantly
Can't be more true.

I think I know Cueshark well enough to reply with this picture, Rok :)
Yeah, Cue changing his mind suddenly was kinda suspicious.


PS: Anyway Cue, I really wish you could live such a thing.
I'm sure you wouldn't say such things so easly anymore.

PSS: Haven't you ever lived such a thing: when you're doing something needing high dexterity of your hand only, if you concentrate high enough, than you'll feel like your brain "comes" into your hand (your point of view isn't anymore from the head, but from the hand) ?
I'm not sure it's clear enough, but I don't know how to explain that, it's a pretty weird sensation.
It lastly happenned 2 days ago and it's not a rare situation. And most of the time this happens, my skill is hundred time better (not to say perfect).
But like Free said, if I try to do it on my own (and not just hardly focusing on my goal), then it won't happen (to link with early talk, I'm focusing on trying to "trough" my concentration on my hand and not on my goal, so it doesn't happen).

For scientists, I'd say it's like if my brain could only feel hand nerves (maybe you'll understand better this way).

For those who had experienced conscious absences, it is just an absence but located on your hand.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 10:47 AM by Abnaxus »
Watashi wa, jinmei ni iku sa reru ka o kakunin surunoni nagai jikan o matteita.
Shikashi, tada nariyuki o mimamoru.
Jikan dake to iudarou gen'in to naru.

May the force be with you.

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #328 on: July 24, 2012, 10:30 AM »
Yeah sorry about that.  Couldn't be bothered to debunk that telepathy bollocks with reason and evidence so I thought mockery through sarcasm was better.

That stuff really is a load of absolute bollocks Free.  Do you really think that those words actually mean anything?

I mean....like this for example....

"We are creating this world together out of our shared web of telepathy. Shared not only with other humans, but with all life forms -- though since our telepathy is only partial with other life forms, we experience this world in a different way than a tree, an insect or a cloud does. In our sleeping dreams, it is easier to visit each other as individuals, because we can recognize each other more easily outside of the groupmind consensus world. It's like, the stars shine during the day, too, but you can't see them till it gets dark. "

I mean, some people probably read that and feel all fluffy and 'connected' with the world.  But to me those words are just words.  They don't even sound particularly nice.  I mean?  We are creating this world together out of our shared web of telepathy?!?!?!?

It's just new-age, feel good, pseudo-scientific bollocks.  White noise.  Someone has just spewed a load of rainbows onto my computer screen.

The real science that underpins our reality is extremely hard to understand and pretty much inaccessible to the average person.  Perhaps that is why people write this as if it actually has some basis in reality.

"Through the spaces, the threads of telepathy weave together to weave a world. If there were no distance between our points of view, if we were all only one point of view, there would be no loom upon which to weave this world. The consensus world is more stable and hard to change than sleeping dreams because it is a collective creation of many distinct points of view, weaving their energy patterns (created of thought, experience, memory, expectation and belief) together."

I mean?!  WTF.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 10:33 AM by Cueshark »

Offline Abnaxus

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #329 on: July 24, 2012, 10:43 AM »
Well, maybe Free just overextends a bit.
But when you live such experiences, believe me, it's damn hard not to (you kinda wonder what's real and what's not; if you just lived something crazy or if you're just insane).

The spoon doesn't exist.
Watashi wa, jinmei ni iku sa reru ka o kakunin surunoni nagai jikan o matteita.
Shikashi, tada nariyuki o mimamoru.
Jikan dake to iudarou gen'in to naru.

May the force be with you.