Ldet and racing schemes (Leagues)

[Kaleu]

Today I was wondering why we still do not play TUS league racing schemes (bigrr/ ttrr) with ldet on?
In my opinion, it's much more challenging and intense as the goal of these schemes is to be faster than your opponents.
I've tried ttrr with ldet and it opens so much possibilities when you gave up fear and focus on turn speed.
Thoughts?

*Edit*
Glossary:
Ldet - Loss of control doesn't end turn.

[Kradie]

No parachute for racing schemes too. It adds extra intensity and dread.

This is my opinion as well as my experience.

With parachute, I feel so much safer, but without I do not.

But really... To have no parachute, I never really think about it.

[Kaleu]

Hmm.. Not sure about it, did not test it enough, except for roper (zar and stuff lol)...

Just another thing I'd like to add. I personally hate losing ttrr matches for not finishing + extra 100% rage boost when my opponent ir clearly newbier than me I mean, it won't prevent me of losing anyway because I can plop all my team but I will have double attention in water section of the maps.

Big RR same.. if you lose 1 turn right after the start playing with a opponent of the same speed level, its over...
It makes more sense to use all your turn time and try to be faster, turn loss is too punishing! Also that way speed up the game almost double, maps are big, so no super long games.

Racing schemes should be a contest of who's faster and not who fall less.

[FoxHound]

Racing schemes should be a contest of who's faster and not who fall less.

I agree with this, although not falling is a valid skill. Maybe both types of racing styles could be allowed. I always supported LDET in races.

[Kaleu]

Yeah not falling is a valid skill indeed but It counts with ldet mode too. You will be punished for every fall anyway, and rewarded for being consistent and fast. I see it like in a Steeplechase race. If you eventually stumble one or more times you will be passed or stay behind your opponents. But imagine if everytime you stumble you can't keep running, you are just forced to stop? I see it like that in worms.
Or maybe imagine a nascar race.. Every time you hit grass you need to stop your car and wait the other cars to complete a lap..
Not sure if it makes sense, it's hard to explain in english, some language barrier for me. Gl understanding

[Kradie]

You would want to avoid crashing with a race car in real life, just as much you would want to avoiding failing with no parachute in a race scheme. You can still rope as fast as you did before, but if you mess up, your turn will end. With Ldet, you will be able to keep going, and sometime with full speed regardless if you failed a few times during a turn. And to be honest, it is refreshing with ldet. it makes you less on edge, and more focused on the speed.

LDET was thought about for ZaR RR, because some thought ZaR RR was too unforgiving. So I opted to enable bounce with minimum bounciness and it did make it much more interesting. Interesting how exactly? Well, with bounce enabled, ''to fail'' was absent, and this would often leave the less skilled people behind because they didn't have the speed necessary to keep up. It gave the less skilled barely any chance. So I just don't pick this option often. It is good for warm up and practice for less experienced players.

But this is my experience, and may not reflect your reality.

So which is better for league and newbies? LDET? Bounce? Keep it as it is? Hmm, I would say that the league could be more inviting for people who are looking to get into it. Race schemes might look less intimidating for them, since it could help them Improve. But on the other hand, if constant motion in race scheme is not a priority, people would have to deal with failing more often(With Parachute, obviously). This could turn some people off.

[FoxHound]

RubberWorm bounciness is another thing to consider, including the value of the bounciness. It really makes the game flows, without having to wait animations such as sliding worms.

I think without LDET or bounciness, if you make a mistake on the beginning of the turn, this is a severe punishment, while making the same mistake when the turn is ending it is not so much loss for the player. It is a bit unfair in my point of view, but someone could also argument that a good player would have more caution on the beginning of a turn, and on the remaining seconds of the turn, it could try more risky moves. I think this is an unnecessary high learning curve to players learn. The game should be focused on speed and risky attempts, that is what spectators on a stream would enjoy to see, beautiful tricks and fast roping. Not people being very cautious.

Regarding Trick Race, it helps players try more times the trick during their turns, without being so cautious that the turn might end. Although, with LDET players will have to pay attention to headbumps, because they could affect the validness of a trick.

[Kradie]

It may as well be true that people enjoy high fidelity gameplay over cautious gameplay. But in both areas there are skills to learn and appreciate, and this too has its audience and players.

I have provided example how bounce in big rr works.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/z2pu3ijroqpse6z/2022-11-28_11.01.43_%255BOnline%255D_%2540ob-Kradie%2560zar%252C_bobjo.WAgame/file
https://www.mediafire.com/file/erubz97de24cfmw/2022-11-28_11.14.38_%255BOnline%255D_%2540ob-Kradie%2560zar%252C_gooner%252C_bobjo.WAgame/file

Here's the value of the bounciness

[TheKomodo]

I've been saying this for years lol. At least for Big RR, not for TTRR, I think TTRR is more suitable for the scheme that already exists because it's very short turns and you get multiple chances, so that makes more sense there.

For Big RR though, you can still lose even though you got to the end with less time actually spent roping. Which is nuts!

I've also been playing with 60 second, rubberworm on for years. Having rubberworm on enables players to absolutely full send their turns, meaning you will focus on trying to go absolute full speed. However this can also cause massive time loss if you aren't careful, if you end up bouncing around in a position where your rope can't attach to anything, you can still lose anywhere between 3-10 seconds!

Using LDET/Rubberworm won't take away from the skill ceiling of the game, as it's based on humans pushing their physical reflexes to the limits. So it will still represent this while also being more fun for those who are noobs and fall a lot, it means they still get a full turn regardless.

[FoxHound]

So, it seems that at least 4 players are in favor of LDET or RW bounciness for BRR. I'd like to see what old school ropers have to say about this. BRR scheme could be updated.

For Boom Race, I don't see the point of not using LDET along with SDET. The only thing is that with SDET some new tricks can be used and these tricks affect the gameplay, such as combining grenades to explode at the exact same time, launching the worm to very far heights. I don't think this is a problem, I think it only adds more complexity to the scheme. And in the future if people really don't like this effect, this could be fixed if Cooldowns be implemented to the weapons.

[Kaleu]

Thanks for all your input guys! I like both implementations and I would play any of them, but personally I think for now we should enable only ldet because it's more usual and widespread, bounce would be too much heavy change IMO...

I think we should consider ttrr too if both players agree why not? I have played a league big rr with ldet on already, I'll be looking to play some ttrr too!

[Kradie]

Thanks for all your input guys! I like both implementations and I would play any of them, but personally I think for now we should enable only ldet because it's more usual and widespread, bounce would be too much heavy change IMO...

I think we should consider ttrr too if both players agree why not? I have played a league big rr with ldet on already, I'll be looking to play some ttrr too!

Can't we just make a poll?

[Kaleu]

Kradie I watched your replays and I found big rr with bounce to be very little to zero punitive. I don't think we want that?

Thanks for all your input guys! I like both implementations and I would play any of them, but personally I think for now we should enable only ldet because it's more usual and widespread, bounce would be too much heavy change IMO...

I think we should consider ttrr too if both players agree why not? I have played a league big rr with ldet on already, I'll be looking to play some ttrr too!

Can't we just make a poll?

Poll gather too much useless votes of people who don't even play. But yeah, I will try to edit the topic with a poll.

Help me with options and question?

[Kradie]

Kradie I watched your replays and I found big rr with bounce to be very little to zero punitive. I don't think we want that?

Thanks for all your input guys! I like both implementations and I would play any of them, but personally I think for now we should enable only ldet because it's more usual and widespread, bounce would be too much heavy change IMO...

I think we should consider ttrr too if both players agree why not? I have played a league big rr with ldet on already, I'll be looking to play some ttrr too!

Can't we just make a poll?

Poll gather too much useless votes of people who don't even play. But yeah, I will try to edit the topic with a poll.

Help me with options and question?

I believe that MonkeyIsland can see who votes. And those that participate actively in the league their votes will be counted.

But you should Include all options imo, particularly bounce and ldet.

[Kaleu]

Poll set