barman and his bng skillz

[avirex]

impo is saying you can jetpack to a hide, and still able to shoot after you land...


rather then wasting a complete turn with a tele, and then just getting hit once again...


im not supporting his idea, just making it easier to understand, i dont think chicken got his point.

[Chicken23]

aw ok.

Thats quiet a novel idea, however you could just jetpack a few pixels forward to but perfectly lined up for a notched shot in a super evil hide you've just created in a couple of turns with sg and goes against my original post of how certain scheme changes have empowered notching technique.

[Kaleu]

I like the jetpack idea, why should someone give a free turn if you can move and attack.

[avirex]

jp is not a horrible idea.. but ofc there would have to be some strict guidelines so ppl dont abuse it..

like, no inching forward... if you want to use jp you must take flight, and atleast travel 50 pixels away..


and have a very short fuse on the jp... so ppl cant fly to a place then spend 10 second positioning themselves into the perfect little spot...

but.. i dunno, maybe there is some negatives to it.... dont know unless ya try.. experimental season anyone?

[KoreanRedDragon]

I don't understand why Chicken says the addition of shotgun helps notchers more than everyone else, is there any evidence to support that? If anything, as a BnG player who doesn't notch very often, I find that the shotgun allows me to employ exactly the sort of oldie tactics he mentions we should be allowed to resort to, i.e. borderline darksiding, uncommon shots (banks, double banks, bunny hops), quirky shots (glorious down and up bounces), constructing and maintaining hides difficult to hit for a notcher (think overhangs where either a low angle shot or digging is required to get to you, hides that are between full power notches from where they are)...

Unlimited teleport on the other hand means that when I see my notching opponent teleport into an evil hide or construct their own perfect one where they only have a single shot at me, I can simply move away without worrying about running out of teleport, then continue taking shots at them while they waste even more turns adapting their hide to be able to hit me in my new position, in turn making themselves even easier to hit.

Clearly the vast majority of the blame for the current situation where new BnG players are being pigeonholed into this one style of play falls on those ridiculous flat maps with zero height difference. On top of that, many of the highly ranked/respected players are actually using saved, identical or almost identical maps whenever they're the ones hosting, and as we've seen recently, some of them are outright breaking TUS rules on visual aids. Before proper judgement can be made on just what the effect of shotgun being added to the scheme is, surely these no doubt greater factors need to be addressed, no?

[Anubis]

Unlimited teleport on the other hand means that when I see my notching opponent teleport into an evil hide or construct their own perfect one where they only have a single shot at me, I can simply move away without worrying about running out of teleport, then continue taking shots at them while they waste even more turns adapting their hide to be able to hit me in my new position, in turn making themselves even easier to hit.

In theory that's correct, but practical any bng map you have at most 4-5 very good hides, rather 3-4 on each side. So once you have them bombarded which doesn't take that long you are doomed. I would fight the problem with bigger maps, double the size we just need an easy way to randomize them. Just take any bng and see how many good hides are there, I am sure you won't need more than 2 hands to count them. :I

[franz]

  ohh the times when 4 worms each autoplaced on Cups was the thing.  All I remember is bng being a little more fun then, but those were simpler times obviously.  I really don't know if bng can be saved now.

Should be no rules and played on cups

already suggested this xD

[Ryan]

Could see some wonderful 4s sitters in the cups!

[Aerox]

unanchored nrbng

every man out for themselves, including nothcers

[Anubis]

  ohh the times when 4 worms each autoplaced on Cups was the thing.  All I remember is bng being a little more fun then, but those were simpler times obviously.  I really don't know if bng can be saved now.

Should be no rules and played on cups

already suggested this xD

I remember that w2 BnG thing as well, played it a couple of times too, pretty fun and would like it as an option if both opponents agree on it. It's just more fun and dynamic.

[TheKomodo]

Disagree with the whole SG thing, I was the one who 1st proposed using SG in BnG, for pretty much the reasons KRD stated, with the added benefit of more possibilities for trick shots.

Tom makes some good points though, I do feel guilty for the whole "flat map" thing as it was me who kinda make it so popular, but not in the same way people are using/abusing it...

I do agree that maps are somewhat the problem, if anyone would care to watch this game quickly:

https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-149332/

Was actually alot of fun, sure, some lucky shots, but it's better than being notched...

We should definitely start being much more creative with our maps, at the very least, stop using -forest.

Tentacle/fruit/desert/tribal are all very good terrains which i've used alot in the past also...

I'll make another post in the morning there is more i'd like to say but got stuff to do atm before work...

[lacoste]

Hodor.

[lacoste]

Hows that so many people still believe bng can be anyhow fixed/improved after all these years? Its a "simple", pixelate turn based 2d game. Change core of bng for say, real time worms  with some kind of mirrored maps and you will have equal ground, but it wont be worms. This scheme has no strategy at all, so all you have is 2 facing worms and 1 shot every turn, whats there to fix? Every additional rule will make it even more sillier coz people will get around and abuse them anyway. If it wasnt for the sake of scheme that has history and that i loved it over few years id remove it from league long time ago without asking MI. Guess i will have to say that again in a year or two, but who cares.

[KoreanRedDragon]

Unlimited teleport on the other hand means that when I see my notching opponent teleport into an evil hide or construct their own perfect one where they only have a single shot at me, I can simply move away without worrying about running out of teleport, then continue taking shots at them while they waste even more turns adapting their hide to be able to hit me in my new position, in turn making themselves even easier to hit.

In theory that's correct, but practical any bng map you have at most 4-5 very good hides, rather 3-4 on each side. So once you have them bombarded which doesn't take that long you are doomed. I would fight the problem with bigger maps, double the size we just need an easy way to randomize them. Just take any bng and see how many good hides are there, I am sure you won't need more than 2 hands to count them. :I

Right, I agree that 4 solid hides on each side is about as much as you can expect on a good day, but that's something you can plan ahead for, from the very start of the game. What's important, especially in clanners, is that one side doesn't get an obviously better deal than the other, but again, TUS rules let you ask for a rehost in such cases, don't they? Apart from that, bombing hides is and should be a valid BnG strategy, and it's not like a notcher gets an advantage there either; you can dig better with Tom's low power high wind zooks than with 4s full power nades.

[avirex]

lacoste said it best!!


every additional rule only makes the scheme sillier...



w2 knew what they were doing with bng (and roper) just no damn rules.. play to win!!

there would be less fighting, less drama, less complaints, and to be perfectly honest, more fun...   

even sitters should be legal..  honestly, thats how we should have an experimental season, 1 season of no rules bng, and ill bet it sticks.