KEY REMAPPER

[Ryan]

Going off on a tangent comparing skill to talent and telling us all how very very wrong we are and we just dont get it doesnt take away from the fact that AHK takes away the skill (not the "talent) of co-ordinating the timely releasing of the spacebar before pressing it.

Using AHK may showcase talent but it by allowing you to do it using less skill.

[TheKomodo]

Ryan, excuse me, but who holds the spacebar for periods of time? I assume everyone presses it as quick as they can, letting go immediately, don't start trying to exaggerrate things now.

That is NOT a skill, you don't have to learn to "let go" of it, it's common sense ! It is still technically a "talent" being able to press it and let go as fast as possible, you cannot LEARN this with practise/time.

[TheWalrus]

I wonder how many great ropers of the past need to join in this discussion to beat the evil that is Komo delusion.

We've got joe now, anyone got jmo's number?

why do we need jmo's number when we have the #1 jmo impersonator right here

[Aerox]

Ryan, excuse me, but who holds the spacebar for periods of time? I assume everyone presses it as quick as they can, letting go immediately, don't start trying to exaggerrate things now.

That is NOT a skill, you don't have to learn to "let go" of it, it's common sense ! It is still technically a "talent" being able to press it and let go as fast as possible, you cannot LEARN this with practise/time.

When mindlessly tapping two space bars the norm is that many inputs are lost because even a master finger roller presses one key on top of another by mistake (specially while scrolling or just showcasing tap speed) even if it's just 1% of the overall taps in said burst. The script removes said handicap.


And then there is the fact that even a master finger roller rolling with perfect timing there's the chance his hardware doesn't react as fast as him (keys get stuck, they don't have 100% accuracy when on strong stress) and again, maybe this only affects 1% of the taps in a burst, but said script removes the handicap.

you don't have to learn to "let go" of it, it's common sense ! It is still technically a "talent" being able to press it and let go as fast as possible

this is really funny in the sense that most keyboards will always be slower than a finger roller, let me explain:

you have two spaces, A and B, if you press A and then B really fast, you'll press B much earlier than the A key goes up again and is allowed to be pressed again meaning that if you were to press A again after B, it will never register, most likely, the next B is what registers (this doesn't matter while fingerolling at full speed, well, it technically does matter, just not in practice for the most part). So you're intrinsically limited by hardware. This script removes said handicap



I hope that once you get your mind around this fact you start becoming a type 1 human being capable of feedback.

[TheKomodo]

Seriously, all it takes is "Oh, I have to let go of the spacebar so I can press it again", you are timing your taps for specific moves(which is the skill, because you need to learn how to do these moves over time, AHK doesn't help you to learn these skills, but natural talent separates the average from the best), not timing when you release space, unless for some reason, some people keep the spacebar held down until they press it again, which is weird is it not, because then they would lose a little time lifting their finger to press it when it's needed again...

When mindlessly tapping two space bars the norm is that many inputs are lost because even a master finger roller presses one key on top of another by mistake (specially while scrolling or just showcasing tap speed) even if it's just 1% of the overall taps in said burst.

And with that being said, do you accept that some people just can't do it? If it was a skill, anyone could learn it, some people just CAN'T do it to the extents of people like barman, their fingers just won't let them, hence making someone like barman more talented than the average FR Roper who fails where he succeeds.

If AFK was legal, and allowed in Leagues, barman would lose his advantage from being more talented, however, more than likely barman would improve with AFK, so the bar would be raised even higher, if he could be bothered, that is.

I will go as far to say that basic FR can be learned to a degree with skill(learning the actual roll of the fingers, using 1/2/3 fingers depending on the move you are trying, as i've seen in many FR videos), but you NEED that natural talent when you are competing at the TOP level, and THAT is what I am basing my arguement on.


Edit after ropas edit: With the stuff you added, that logic just makes me think players shouldn't even be allowed to mod their keyboards at all, and everyone should require a specific model so NO ONE has advantages/dis-advantages... But more to the point, if you are restricted by hardware, that is taking away the talent, not the skill... The talent of having fast enough fingers to lift them out the way faster than other people can...

[Aerox]

I like how you play devil's advocate with a shovel

let me know when you hit rock bottom

[avirex]

you say "letting go of space, does not take skill"    my friend, that is a necessary when roping UNLESS you are using a script...   so with that logic, your saying pressing the sapce does not take skill either....    your right.... any monkey (sorry monkeyisland) can press a f@#!ing space bar... and any asshole (sorry ropa) can let go of the spacebar... but wtf?? its when the actions are combined, with the proper timing, and executed properly that the skill is formed....


komo, do you want to know what your doing when you post proper definitions for words (that we all know you did not have in mind during any of your arguments, because you obviously just googled them) your trying to find a loophole for being an idiot.

[TheKomodo]

avi, I actually copied and pasted skill/talent from the dictionary, so if anyone looked for themselves they would see the same thing, you have some imagination though 

avi, finally you said something that makes sense !

its when the actions are combined, with the proper timing, and executed properly that the skill is formed....

This is what I have been thinking all along, and why I am saying AHK doesn't reduce skill, it takes ALL elements combined to be amongst the greatest... The way I see it, just because "AHK" does this stupid 2 space thing, doesn't reduce the skill, because of all the other elements involved, the taps/letting go, whatever-the-f@#!, doesn't matter 1 bit, if you don't know the rest...

Technical problems, limitations etc, those are kinda luck in a way... I see skill as learning what you need to learn, and talent is your ability to use that to it's full potential.

[philie]

doesn't really matter tbh...

ye, this fits to the last 5 7 pages.

[TheKomodo]

 

[Anubis]

I do, can you answer my question now please.

He's inferring that you can jump higher off of one foot than two, physically demonstrated best by a basketball layup, which is absolutely and unequivocally correct.  Anus would know this if he watched basketball.  Which you should, Kai.

On this novella of a topic, everyone using a script like this should be hunted down and caned.  Except Anubis, he already has had 10 years of backlash under his belt.

You are wrong, I used to be a basketball addict, why would I make an analogy off of something I have no idea about. In my teens I was religiously performing jumping exercises to push my vertical jump.

Two feet will push you off the ground higher. Jumping has everything to do with your legs. Hence why players rarely jump off one leg for a jumpshot, because they need the elevation using both feet to get up higher. They only take one step jumps when they need that extra step to get to the basket for a layin or dunk.

Here is a video with Gerald Green, currently (to my knowledge) the player in the NBA with the highest vertical jump, look at his jumping technique:

and now read this little copy from wiki about vertical jumps, it explains why you jump higher with both:

An important component of maximizing height in a vertical jump is attributed to the use of counter-movements of the legs and arm swings prior to take off, as both of these actions have been shown to significantly increase the body's center of mass rise. The counter-movement of the legs, a quick bend of the knees which lowers the center of mass prior to springing upwards, has been shown to improve jump height by 12% compared to jumping without the counter-movement. This is contributed to the stretch shortening cycle of the leg muscles enabling the muscles to create more contractile energy. Furthermore, jump height can be increased another 10% by executing arm swings during the take off phase of the jump compared to if no arm swings are utilized. This involves lowering the arms distally and posteriorly during the leg counter-movements, and powerfully thrusting the arms up and over the head as the leg extension phase begins. As the arms complete the swinging movement they pull up on the lower body causing the lower musculature to contract more rapidly, hence aiding in greater jump height.

As you can see, to maximize height you will need to perform actions which are impossible to do while running and jumping off one foot.

Btw @ Wally/van: Let's not further derail this thread with basketball I just had to reply to this because it was quite an insult to me to believe I have no idea about b-ball/vertical jumps. xD

[j0e]

Ignoring those bogus dictionary definitions, what Komo is basically saying is that, as long as the technology is available to everyone, we should be allowed to rope with brain implants that sense our control inputs.

[TheKomodo]

as long as the technology is available to everyone, we should be allowed to rope with brain implants that sense our control inputs.

Lmao, cmon, THAT would be awesome ! At least just for fun

Ooo Kai, that was VERY interesting, didn't know that !

[Anubis]

But it takes away the physical skill if you use thought for roping just like the AHK script, just not even close as much as a thinking input device. However, the ONLY reason why I started to mod my keyboards was to reduce hardware failure, at some point any keyboard reaches it's limit even though the user could still perform faster and more accurate. We don't have any professional sports so our hardware devices are not optimal for roping, it's not like we have a kb manufacture that releases new kbs only focused on roping, we have to adapt to whatever is available in the broad variety of kbs we can choose from. Going from pressing to touch sensitive space bar is a huge difference with a lot more control and is in my opinion the best way to have the highest possible physical skill while still reducing hardware failures and not relying on any software script.

Take the 2 fastest & most skilled "FR" players, or even people who can just twitch really really fast like Mablak, make them play with this AHK script, they aren't going to start slacking off, or being lazy, to be just as good as they were without the script, they would/should put just as much effort/speed/timing/experience/thought/whatever into their roping as they did before, if not more, and this would result in both players achieving a higher standard of roping, it might not be "natural" but it sure reaches the goals of these schemes better, and if all players had this, they would all need to work harder to compete, making roping HARDER to learn if AHK was legal & popular/common.

Once again, like I have previously stated, without FR the script won't do anything, you need at least 2 individual fingers moving on 2 individual space bars to benefit from the script. If twitching still means what it used to, then using the twitching technique in roping only utilizes 1 space bar and having a 2nd (which you need) will do nothing. Everyone would need to learn FR.

[TheKomodo]

Are there any keyboards with a space that pressing with 1 finger, releasing halfway, will still work?

I wonder if we were to have some company design keyboards solely for roping, how would they do it?