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Cups and Tournaments Comments / Re: Cup #1237, Renaissance of Roping
« on: May 17, 2024, 07:44 PM »Yes, how about 18:00 UTC?Hey Micro, when can you play?Can you do sunday evening?
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Yes, how about 18:00 UTC?Hey Micro, when can you play?Can you do sunday evening?
I measure every move based on what you see with the normal frame by frame replayIn this case you can't see the grenade touching the wall. In your view does this mean the bounce doesn't count and that the red team didn't win the game? It looks like the grenade was repulsed by a magnetic force, perhaps you would like to say it was repulsed instead of bounced in this case? The replay is attached.
*Player 1 does a swoosh after 10 minutes of trying*This is unreasonable and cumbersome to me. This scenario is one practical reason for why I'm arguing against the notion that how it looks is what counts. It's so this doesn't become the way we have to do things, as you say f that.
Player 2: That was kind of close to the edge, let's close the game and look at the replay frame by frame to make sure it wasn't a mexican swoosh.
*Turns out it was a mexican swoosh*
Player 2: You must try to do it again, you didn't do a swoosh. Now let's start the game, teleport back to our old positions and resume playing.
This is why I absolutely LOVE getting into friendly forum confrontations with people!I do recognize this trick as its own thing. For me it's more about the trick being executed on the first possible frame than how it looks. If a trick recognition system is ever implemented I think it would be cool if tricks that are executed on the first possible frame had some sort of distinction. It could have a different text color or be described as "Perfect", "Perfect Swoosh" for example. Other tricks could have a "Perfect" variant as well. For shadows it would be when the rope is only visible for one frame on the tap and for outlaws and spikes it would be when the rope is released on the first frame you bounce off a surface. Many other tricks may have a "Perfect" variant as well.
You find out cool shit like this all the time!
Just discovered a new rope move, after so many years, not every day you get that!
If anything though, I'm glad we've had this little discussion because we've actually discovered a new move, the mexican swoosh! That's the most exciting thing I got from this entire escapade!Yes that's funny, as I've said that totally could be its own trick. I hope you take this away from the discussion too: you need to do testing before making claims. Even if you think you're 100% sure there may be a small detail about how the game works that you have forgotten. Be careful not to state your opinions as facts when it's critical that your own opinions don't come through as facts. That way when someone is asking for advice they can make their own informed decision.
If you want this to change, then tell Deadcode to make the frames properly visibleThere's no technical reason for why there must be a 1 frame delay on the rope release in the first place, at least that I can think of. It should be possible keep track of a few variables and apply those variables on the frame the rope is actually released. That would make the ninja rope more responsive, fun and intuitive.
It is not an incorrect assumption.It is an incorrect assumption, you and Triad did not and still do not have the same view of what a swoosh is. To you it looks like an arch so you have the opinion that it isn't a swoosh, for Triad it is enough that the rope shoots to the right if even if it looks like it would be an arch on the last frame the rope is visible. (03:40.60 in the replay)
That picture, it's not a swoosh it's an arch!You yourself wrote earlier in this thread that what is and isn't a trick is a matter of opinion, so why are you stating it as a fact that it's not a swoosh?
I said if the only requirement to be a swoosh is to fire rope right then sure its a swoosh.In the context of this challenge that is what constitutes as a swoosh, here in this challenge that is in fact a swoosh.
I am not wrong about the angle you can see in the picture that the rope is going left from the middleThat isn't the angle we were discussing. We were discussing the angle of the rope on the frame after the last frame the rope is rendered (03:40.62 in the replay). You said that angle would be at best totally vertical, but it is actually sloped slightly to the right.
Though yes, I'll admit I temporary forgot about the pre-frame thing. Which is irrelevantIt's relevant to determine a correct result in the context of this challenge, where if the rope shoots to the right after release even if it looks like an arch it's considered a swoosh.
If that picture is where he activates drill then it's not a swoosh it's an arch.You either wrote this with the assumption that Triad's views on what constitutes a swoosh is the same as yours, which is an incorrect assumption otherwise the score would not have been changed back to 99. Or you didn't know when writing this that the rope undergoes 1 frame of motion internally before being released and you wrote something wrong based on a lack of knowledge of how the game works.
If he's going ------------------>
Unfortunately that's not how the ninja rope works, there's quirk with the rope making it so it should be released 1 frame earlier than what the rendered frame is showing.
Yeah but at best it would be totally vertical, and still not a swoosh.You were wrong about the angle, it is in fact at an angle that is sloping slightly to the right.
By my definition, the last frame you see the actual rope is what counts.That's not how the game works, you are wrong.
The last rope angle rendered before releasing the rope is never the same as the angle at which the next rope will be shot, unless the rope is perfectly still when released. This is because the rope internally undergoes a frame worth of motion before being released.
there is no "official" way of doing any move on the rope, its basically what people agree on.I agree, but that isn't what I'm disputing.
Yeah but at best it would be totally vertical, and still not a swoosh.
My definition of a swoosh though, is when the rope is past the perfect vertical point moving downwards
To be honest, I've never seen it actually written anywhere. My definition of a swoosh though, is when the rope is past the perfect vertical point moving downwards, basically, the image that Triad showed but the worm would be on the other side at the same point.The looks-like-a-swoosh-quacks-like-a-swoosh-but-isn't-actually-a-swoosh could be a its own trick if someone wills it enough, I won't argue about that. I'll say this, you were wrong to advice with certainty based only on an assumption.
That's how I've known it for over 20 years personally.
For the Challenge, it's up to the moderator, so up to Triad really.