Quote from: Peja on May 19, 2015, 05:29 PM
btw it would be smart creating several topics for the schemes, its really no pleasure to follow this discussion.

Well, we have just a couple of rules under discussion atm (darksiding in BnG, skipping in WxW/Shopper/Roper). Other than that the rules look quite good/clear. You or avi can open separate threads if u want

Quote"If you break this rule, you are not allowed to attack or knock (any worm) the next turn. If you do knock by accident, you are not allowed to attack or knock for another turn. You are however allowed to knock to get out of your spot."

where "by accident" = if u knock clearly on purpose (like several knocks to pile worms), mods can void the game or give the win to the victim. Good or bad now ??

No comments on this? We all know the current skip rule can be unfair sometimes so this is just about finding a better rule.

Edit: The opponent may be hiding at a narrow spot where u can't get without knocking. It should be allowed to make a little knock to get to that place. "You are however allowed to knock to get out of your spot and to get to a spot".

We've tried to arrange the game but Crazy has been busy..

HHC & Crazy, can you make it this weekend? Does Sunday around 15-19 gmt sound good?

So Lukz & lalo, are you going to play between the 21st and 24th or later?

Quote from: Komito on May 19, 2015, 07:05 AM
By the way, Senator are you a newer player or did you have another name before? I never heard or seen you until 1-2 months ago, same goes for a lot of people now lol.

I played wwp around 2001-2003? under nicks Senator & OnCle (also WA for a short time before I quitted worms). I was in the same clan with Crazy (wwPd) and I also founded a clan called DoH (Drops on Head). From TUS members I remember Crazy, fada, voltage, Husk, noam... I also remember that I played a lot of RRs with BENSERV. I registered at TUS in 2008 but played mostly FNI tourneys around 2008-2010 (under nick Rantsi). Then I quitted again but came back in 2013 and have played TUS since that

Quote from: Crazy on August 28, 2013, 11:45 PM
I was in wwPd as well with Senator, i think the clan is older then ten years.. DJKris was our leader, we had Prodigy, AIF, Brux, RopeR and some more members. We had a tough time playing against clans like dwi, mash, hos, eq, susuii, iwc, ckc, top, we lost all games that we played. Literally, all games But yea, nice to see him back again, he's a really nice guy like you said avi

Quote from: Senator on May 08, 2015, 06:40 PM
- Should the definition of darksiding in BnG be changed?

Current definition: A darkside is considered a place where you can't hit OR be hit with a nade.
KRD's definition: Darksiding is hiding your worm in a position where it's impossible for your opponent(s) to hit you with a grenade and at the same time impossible for you to hit your opponent(s) with a grenade.

So far Komo has said that KRD's definition should be used. Other opinions?

---

MI's cba/w2w rule for Roper:

Crate Before Attack (CBA)
*You have to collect a health crate before attacking your opponent. If a crate is not available, you have to touch both walls instead (w2w). During Sudden Death you have to collect a crate OR touch both walls before attacking (your choice).

Blocking definition in Roper: "Your opponent is blocked if he can't get out of his spot by walking or by shooting a rope out correctly."

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Quote from: MonkeyIsland on May 11, 2015, 04:17 AM

Quote from: Senator on May 10, 2015, 12:02 PM

QuoteRegarding WxW, Shopper and Roper, should the rule about skipping be changed? Currently you are allowed to make piles, cause fall damage etc during the skip turn.

Would this be a good skip rule? "If you break this rule, you are not allowed to attack or knock the next turn but you are still allowed take your crate and change your hide."

The problem with that is what if when trying to collecting your crate you fall or accidentally knock? The result would be the same.

"If you break this rule, you are not allowed to attack or knock (any worm) the next turn. If you do knock by accident, you are not allowed to attack or knock for another turn. You are however allowed to knock to get out of your spot."

where "by accident" = if u knock clearly on purpose (like several knocks to pile worms), mods can void the game or give the win to the victim. Good or bad now ??

Quote from: MonkeyIsland on May 17, 2015, 08:29 PM
Before the gong sound, if there are crates available to collect on the map, the player should CBA, otherwise w2w rule applies. (this also covers up that one crate-less turn before SD)

This actually makes sense. Imagine you minimize the game at the opponent's turn and return to the game when your turn starts. There is one crate on the map but you don't know if it dropped for u or if the opponent left it for u. Therefore cba should always be followed, also when no crate drops before SD.

Quote from: MonkeyIsland on May 17, 2015, 08:29 PM
After the gong sound, if there are crates available to collect on the map, the player has a choice to either collect the crate or do w2w.

What bugs me here is that u can't choose between cba/w2w before SD if no crate drops but at SD you can. Why would SD give you more options what to do? When I voted for option 3, I thought it would be possible to apply that rule also before SD when no crate drops. Now I think option 1 or 2 would make more sense But option 3 still means no one can break the rule..

@Ryan & Komito, WACL, Cl2k and FB don't state anything about SD/w2w (the most recent rule sites are not archived, though. AL rules site not archived either).

Quote from: rU` on May 17, 2015, 09:32 AM
How isnt it clear that you gotta wall to wall once the cr8s stop dropping? The rule couldn't be clearer,  it's been explained thousand times.  How would that cause complaints?

"How would that cause complaints?" Easily. We have it in black and white that XTC league used option 2. So if we go with option 1, people who are familiar with the XTC rule may break the rule unintentionally. Just like Ryan wasn't aware of the XTC rule.

"You really know what's the real rule: which is option #1" Currently you are allowed to do CBA during SD (see MI's post in that complaint thread), which means option 2 or 3

Quote from: tita on May 16, 2015, 12:42 PM
[Yesterday at 02:30 PM] Brazil Phanton: kano
[Yesterday at 02:41 PM] Poland Kano888: yo
[Yesterday at 02:41 PM] Poland Kano888: Panton



how many times i'll  wait?

[May 13, 2015, 10:51 PM] Brazil Phanton: Kano, will join po in 2 or 3 days
[May 13, 2015, 10:51 PM] Brazil Phanton: wait me pls
[May 13, 2015, 10:55 PM] Poland Kano888: Phanton
[May 13, 2015, 10:56 PM] Poland Kano888: im work , Saturday please ok ? or Friday ?

Maybe they'll play this weekend..

Dilboy could have reseted his stats before reporting.. selective reporting not fair

Quote from: avirex on May 13, 2015, 12:34 PM
heres a start: feel free to proof read, edit, discuss:

Blocks: when your worm blocks another worm, and he can not get out from walking, shooting rope, or extending rope: if you block a worm and your opponent manages to attack, you must take a penalty coinciding with how much time he lost, if your opponent does not attack, you must skip your next attack as well.

Glitches: most all glitches are not allowed in roper, if you exploit any glitches that result in an advantage in the game, you must skip your next attack.. However the following glitches have been accepted as legal in roper schemes: "ghost nades"

WL: "A block is a situation where a worm can't walk or rope out of his spot without knocking the blocking worm away."
XTC: "It is not a block if a worm can escape via walking or by shooting a rope out correctly to escape a narrow spot."

Your/XTC's definition seems legit. I too was in belief that you have to wait the same time as your opponent lost while blocked but TUS rules say it's always 5 seconds. I think it's ok either way.

So the glitch rule could be like this "No glitches are allowed in the game. The only exception to this rule are ghost nades."

From old league sites:

WL: "If no crate falls: just attack. If no more crates fall because it's sudden death: touch both walls before attacking." = option 1 (except we would do w2w if no crate falls before SD)

XTC: "After SD arrives AND/OR there are no Health Crates to collect, you must touch both walls before attempting to attack or hide (known as W2W)." = option 2

The rule has indeed changed over years. In WL you had to follow cba only when a crate fell whereas in XTC you had to collect any remaining crate before following w2w. So we can safely choose any option. I voted for option 3 because I'm sure that many players don't know what to do in this rare situation (even as experienced player as avirex went for crate during SD in that complaint case). Option 1 is ok too.

Edit: The WL rule may just assume the map is empty of crates, it doesn't state clearly what happens if a crate is available

leroy, we are talking about one or two turn delay to w2w. it's not like SD becomes meaningless And SD is there only to end a prolonged game, the purpose is to finish the game well before SD.

Quote from: Komito on May 13, 2015, 05:23 PM
1) When SD begins, w2w should be followed regardless.

2) When SD begins, if crates are available you must follow CBA.

3) When SD begins, If crates are available the player has the choice to CBA or w2w.

Imo it has to be 1 or 3. Number 2 can be unfair as avirex pointed out (opponent leaves a hard crate for you and SD begins)

Edit: Good thing about option 3 is that then you don't have to know the rule. You can make a guess at w2w/cba and it's always right

Quote from: avirex on May 13, 2015, 10:35 AM
you just added those senator?? they need work, clearly.

Yea I just wrote those rules how they are atm, not how they should be in the future (I didn't make changes on my own). Maybe I was wrong about that blocking definition, I don't know, or maybe there's just no consensus of that rule either. Anyway the scheme descriptions are now edited back to original and I'll update them once we have finished with this update discussion.

Quote from: avirex on May 13, 2015, 10:35 AM
and sorry, if "floating weapon" meant something else, i thought it was a ghost nade, but again, that section needs work as well.. "ghost nades" are a glitch, i really doubt t17 thought to them selves "hey wouldnt it be cool if when we have water drops, nades dont plop right away, and they can ghost through the map?"

its a glitch, but over the years it been an acceptable glitch, that needs to be stated.

I wrote "floating weapon" just as an example of a glitch. All the glitches are forbidden atm (even a "ghost nade"). Are there other glitches you wan't to make allowed or just ghost nades?

Quote from: rU` on May 12, 2015, 11:19 PM
When the gong sounds... you know where to go lol.

How about the turn before SD when no crate falls

To be specific it should be "w2w when no more crates fall".

Quote from: avirex on May 13, 2015, 09:28 AM
- No blocking with a worm. Your opponent is blocked if he is not able to exit his hide by walking. If you block and your opponent doesn't attack, you aren't allowed to attack the next turn. If your opponent is still able to attack you then you have a 5sec penalty at the beginning of your turn but you are allowed to attack.

how many times have there been a blocked worm, (cant get out from walking) but its very simple to get out, be either shooting the rope, or just roping out backwards at an angle, etc.

- No glitches are allowed in the game (e.g. floating weapon). If you break this rule you aren't allowed to attack the next turn.

ut oh, this is gonna be a big game changer... komo is notorious for these nades!! looks like the mods are gonna have to put in some 'over-time' hours deleting games, bad luck komo.

I added that blocking definition coz I thought it has always been like that (just unwritten). I'm sorry if I'm wrong.

If you are able to rope out without knocking you are also able to walk out. If you need to shoot a rope to get out, you can argue that you lost some time there. "Walking" includes also jumps (if u "block" by being on top of the worm).

I also added that "no glitches" rule (another rule that was not just written in the scheme descriptions). I don't know what a floating nade is and it's not mentioned here: http://worms2d.info/Floating_weapon_glitch

"The weapons it works with are Bazooka, Mortar and Petrol Bomb, and also Homing Missile, Homing Pigeon, Sheep Launcher and Patsy's Magic Bullet"

The current (unwritten) rule however has been that it's not allowed to use ANY glitch.

Quote from: avirex on May 13, 2015, 09:38 AM
if your opponent gets a hard cr8 right before sudden death, and fails to retrieve it... you should not be punished, and have to grab his crate, you should be able to go w2w if you choose to

No one claimed you should do both w2w and cba, only w2w and leave the crate if u wan't.

Final deadline: Monday 2015-06-01 (20 days)

20 days so it's more likely that the games get played within 30 days