Well, I do agree with Chicken that people should have the option of having their statistics made public, but then again, isn't it the whole point of a league, to be able to see every statistic, people obviously must see in recent games etc the amount of games people are winning-losing, we can see everything else which to me is alot worse than %, but I guess thats just how I personally feel...

I have done on many occasions where 100% proved wrong.

There is a difference between being proved wrong, and someone having a different opinion, unless facts are shoved in my face, it doesn't mean I am wrong.

The same could be said for you, by the way.

This sounds perfect to me DarkOne

Good job

You must have posted while I was posting D1 - I think the action you took is appropriate and spot on, well done and thank you

Hopefully they learn from this.

Also, at no point did I say they deserved to be banned from playing altogether lol, that's impossible anyway, a forum ban is perfect.

I can't be bothered with this pointless and endless debate of opinions.

We are both entitled to our opinions, and cannot come to an agreement Tom, I will answer each of your quotes as quick as I can:

I am the type of person that does not let people insult me, if you are ok with people insulting you, or you can handle it differently, that is your choice, I don't like people disrespecting me, and I will always do something about it.

I honestly think if someone was REALLY REALLY annoying you, to the point it is affecting the fun you are having in a pub, you WOULD change pubs or try and get something done about it, the point is, you would not leave it alone, I know you Tom, you wouldn't let it continue the way it is, something would happen, whether you get into a fight with the guy, whether he leaves, you leave doesn't matter, the point is there would be a reaction and I honestly think you would be lying if you said otherwise.

And yes, I think I should have had a forum ban for some of the things I said, as should you, avi, jeff, nino etc, we all should have, I can accept this because I am man enough to admit when I am wrong, if they are not, and they complain moan and cause MORE trouble through being banned, it just goes to show they can't handle the fact they are acting wrong according to the rules that got them the punishment in the 1st place.

What I said about this is perfectly natural and correct, there are alot of places in the world where if you disrespect and insult someone the way zippo does, it will get you stabbed shot or possibly worse, this is a fact, your opinion to ignore this is your choice, it's life, it's the world, get used to it.

Who cares if it provokes them and makes matter worse? Matters wouldn't get worse if it was done in the 1st place which I believe it should, I play ALOT of other games online actively and I am in guilds and leagues etc with forums like this, and NONE of them put up with anything even close to this much crap, WA is a small and soft community, my point here is, why the hell should we STILL have to put up with people like this after 11 years?

I used my words very carefully with this statement and you haven't even took that into consideration, if you can't be bothered to read my words specifically then I won't bother with yours, but now come to think of it, I personally DO think you are a bit of a coward the way you are acting saying things like let them act like that, ignore them, lets all get alone, I also think you are being ignorant to the way other people think about this situation, i've already said I respect your opinion, I will not look down on you, you will still be my mate, I just think you care too much about how people look at you, if you were to look at yourself, you are having a go at me, because I feel they should be banned, and I am stating my opinion, trying to defend justice here, zippo/crash are the ones who have done most of the bad stuff and the worst of it, yet you stick up for them? And don't say you are not because you are, even if you are not intending to...

You obviously have not read what I have said properly and PLEASE don't try and say you have cuz you have just proved it with this: "So yea, now that saying it doesnt directly effect me after calling me a coward your trying to show how its relative." Even if you read it you obviously do not understand it, because I was referring the way they behave not directly affecting you, not the things I said as an example, to me this is a case of you seeing what you want to see.

Again, you are not fully understanding what it is that I am saying, it IS the same train of thought, not for the actions being made, ie, Raping someone, Mugging someone, Bullying someone or harassing them, acting like a complete and utter evil person, it is the person who witnesses this who shares the same train of thought, for whatever reason, they are too scared, they don't have the guts, they are too simple minded, they don't care, they are not willing to take action for something that is obviously a bad thing and that is what you are doing, you would rather just let Zippo and crash continue to harass people and keep causing trouble, than actually do something about it and try to sort it out, this is what I refer to as being cowardly and selfish, and I totally think you are acting like this right now, I didn't say this is what you are all the time, and I didn't say "pussy" but right now you are showing signs of it, it doesn't mean I don't respect you or anything, so stop thinking things that I haven't directly and specifically or even technically said.

Also on a side note, if you steal something, whether it be stationary from work, or a car, it is STILL STEALING, you can get sacked for stealing at work, grazing also, it is STILL WRONG, and you should STILL BE PUNISHED for it if you get caught, I have stole stuff before from jobs, I fully understand it is wrong and if I had been caught I would fully accept the consequences for my actions, Zippo/Crash have been caught red handed on multiple occasions and yet they go unpunished, it just isn't fair, no matter what your opinion is.

Tom, let's just agree to disagree, there is NOTHING we can both say to come to an agreement on this issue, you have your opinion, and I have my opinion, which I honestly think neither of us are wrong, or right, because the issues we talk about all depends on personal feelings and opinions, and nothing can be proven, however if you continue to post, so will I, because I am persistent enough in the things I believe in.

Lol @ "as quick as I can" <--- That was a pointless statement if I ever made one haha...

I honestly think you are the one thinking negatively here Tom, sometimes it's good to think positive and have a laugh about these things that get all worked up and disturbed by them.

I was lucky enough to get a link to the image

I already mentioned this to him earlier, but yeah, it doesn't work :\

Also, I will not keep going on in this post anymore, we all have different opinions, and if we keep going down this road it'll end up another silly arguement, the MODS will decide what to do and we should all respect their choice, whether we agree with it or not, sometimes it's just nice to clear your head and get stuff off your chest...

I know what you mean Chicken but your point is irrelevant I think, being that most clans now hold tryouts etc, all the best and extremely competitive clans all look for different qualitys when looking for members, so if they were really bad, they wouldn't make the clan because of the tryout, not because of their %

Tryouts are more accurate than this %, i've played bad enough to lose quite a few games if not having a TTRR partner like Mablak, or an elite partner such as yourself, or having the best luck ever in a T17...

The win % is just a cool statistic you personally see how you are doing yourself, or how your friends/best opponents are doing in terms of win percentage...

Quote from: Chicken23 on September 02, 2010, 07:02 AM
This isnt real life tho. Its a computer game. Reasoning that you would just hit someone when you found them annoying isn't very mature or responsible. Thats just as wrong or worse than what they are doing. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I didn't say I go around hitting people that annoy me, I have however done it most times I feel someone has wronged me.

And even though it is a computer game, it STILL IS real life, played by real people, in a real world, we are not dreaming or having nightmares here, and so it affects people even more because they can't take control as they could face to face.

Quote from: Chicken23 on September 02, 2010, 07:02 AMA fact? I doubt that, why don't you and the 10 or so people that can be bothered make your own league where zippo and crash are banned and go play in that?

My point here was a counter on something you said, which was about not being immature as to go to another pub, the reference was we cannot just easily decide to go to another league, because there are none, I think you picked me up wrong on this?

Quote from: Chicken23 on September 02, 2010, 07:02 AMits being sensitive because yes i'll moan, i'll get annoyed, but im over it within half an hour or so. But your obviously not as you still take the time to write essays on what TuS should do because you can't handle their attitude. Im not arguing against deleting posts, locking topics. I personally think the ingame chats should not be displayed. That would prevent alot of things because at the moment its so easy to scroll down and read the "asd asd asd" flooding, i doubt half of the people on zippo's back would take the time to download all his replays just to watch his reaction to how he lost a game. If they did then maybe they have too much time on their hands.
Im arguing against someone getting banned because they have a bad reputation and are disliked. That is banning someone based on opinions. Not with regards to the rule book of schemes. Ive always been against people being banned from leagues unless they are caught cheating. Most cases people have been banned from allaising. I would argue with kiros and neary got myself banned plenty of times to try and get ropa unbanned there because he was my friend. Zippo and crash are not my friends, but i still don't think its right to ban just because they act like children when they lose. We are all different ages, have different personalilites and different ways of dealing with our emotions. Accept them for who they are. Idiots prehaps, but not cheats or people that deserve to have a service taken away from them which they clearly enjoy just as much as you.

I am not as bothered as you think I am, I personally have still talked to Zippo, even after saying I am fed up with him, I personally too get a little frustrated but it goes away very very fast...

You are totally wrong with associating the way FB banned people with what would happen if TuS banned Zippo for his persistant actions and attitude, you cannot say it will end up the same especially since you can't see the future for starters, we all know FB took banning people WAY out of proportion, and I know for a fact TuS would never do this.

Quote from: Chicken23 on September 02, 2010, 07:02 AMMaybe im sensitive, i won't deny that but i consider myself liberal. More justice, harder rules and controlling the freedom of speech are all bad things in my view. Im an ex crusty has been raver hippy and i say lets all just get along. People provoke zippo and crash. Hell. Ive provoked crash loads of times just to piss him off. I did the same with beer aswell. Im not a saint, and nor are you, avi, and anyone else arguing for them to be banned. Even SPW and random00 have their moments when they lose clanners. No one is prefect here. We aren't all angles and we do fed the trolls. The whole topic has been hyped up. I like playing zippo and crash just to see them cry when they lose. Maybe if you have problems because you want to release your anger that they cause you then be more productive with that anger and own them next time you play them at tus. Im sure if they lose some more games it would knock them down a couple of notches on their ladders. Hell crash avoids me and does not play me in tus because hes scared to elite me and doesn't think risking to win 35 points of my lower rating is enough to attempt to play me. But look, you don't see me asking for him to be banned. I made a thread in complaints just to shame him, it worked. But you can't force people to play you and you can't force people to behave in a way we want them to. When you start to enforce things on people. It becomes dangerous. Go read 1984 and see if you want TuS to become the next FB!? ha. (no offense to FB)

Like you, I am just defending what I believe is right, now I like you Tom, I really do, we go way back, so please DO NOT take this next statement to heart, it's just what I feel would really happen, I respect the fact you wish everyone could just get along, and that you think more justice harder rules and controlling the freedom of speech are bad things, I really respect your opinion, the only reason we get away with this is because we are spoiled in our countrys, in some countrys acting the way Zippo does could literally gets people killed, and by this I don't mean whining a bit because he loses a game, I am talking about the way he totally disrespects people and some comments he specifically makes.

I know you wish we could all get along, most people think that, but you need to have some backbone and make tough choices to benefit things sometime, I know you are saying this, but i've seen you saying stuff worse than "they should get banned" over the years I have known you, but with those things you said, you have mostly had good reason to say them, just like we have good reason to think Zippo and Crash should be banned for a while, especially Zippo, so for that part you are somewhat a Hypocrit.

For the last time, I know no one is perfect here, but it is more than obvious who the worst 2 are.

It's not our fault some people have been raised up and grown to be able to take this amount of crap from people and live with it, right now, and no offence, you are making it come across to me as you one of those people that would witness someone at school or a workplace being bullied or continously harassed and do nothing about it because it doesn't bother you personally, or walking one day and seeing some poor helpless person being mugged or raped and either be too scared to help them, or just don't care.

Now I know you are thinking, what's this got to do with someone on a game being banned for being a twat?!? However it is somehow the same train of thought, just because it doesn't directly affect you, or bother you that Zippo/Crash are 2 extremely annoying persistant cheap "anything-for-the-win" insultive ignorant arrogant immature pests, doesn't mean what they are doing isn't bad enough to deserve a ban or at least some sort of punishment for their actions, if we didn't have rules and laws to follow, it would be chaotic.

I have already said, if they won't be banned, some sort of punishment SHOULD take place, you can't let people get away with acting like this no matter where when and how if it bothers so many people.

Oh, so, wait a minute, I am not allowed to delete MY account altogether, yet, you are suggesting I shouldn't be allowed to view my clan statistics because of a few people who like to brag?

Thats a bit unfair imo...

b2b has a forum called "The Brag Board" and no one complains about this... lol

Theres nothing wrong with bragging as long as you do it in good nature and fun.

Quote from: Chicken23 on September 01, 2010, 05:47 PM
People asking for more justice, but soon as you do that you'll get people complaining for bans and posts being deleted and topics closed. You'll never please the community.. People should just have enough maturity to ignore zippo. If you don't like him don't play him.

If u complain about his comments and stuff. Ban him from forums, take away the game features of viewing texts. If some guy who u found annoying kept drinking in your local pub you would not ask the landlord to get him barred. And you wouldnt be so immature and sensetive to start drinking in a different pub. Although that option is there. Zippo and crash should not be banned if they are not breaking any rules. Stop your witchhunt. This topic is like a medievil purge and its retardly frustrating how so many of you appear to be so sensetitive. Grow a set and just leave them be.

We won't be asking for more bans etc unless it's deserving and in this case it is, like avi said, people that act the way Zippo does in real life you could just hit them and end it there and then, and if you got barred for it as well, so what, at least you would be be able to take out some anger, and hopefully the person would learn a lesson through "I don't like pain, so I won't do this again..."

And actually, if someone in your local pub was annoying people on the scale Zippo annoys people on TuS Zippo WOULD get barred because they would lose custom to another pub, unfortunately we do not have another league to go to, and I know for a fact quite a few people would chose another league over this one just to get away from Zippo/Crash, that's a fact.

I don't get how we appear sensitive, i've seen you whine and moan about Zippo too, and as i've already said, if they can't ban him, then they should at LEAST delete insulting posts, not just from Zippo but from anyone, why would we choose to ignore someone, that's just stupid because it will just continue, if Zippo constantly got banned for acting the way he does, I know for a FACT he would stop it sooner than ignoring him would, someone will ALWAYS react to Zippo no matter how many people ignore him.

And funny you say we appear sensitive, yet you are protecting him? To me sticking up for someone who doesn't deserve your help in the first place is alot more sensitive than the fact most of us are fed up with him and just want to get rid of him, how is wanting to get rid of someone sensitive lol...

Anyway, it'd be better if he could just behave, he could be such a great asset to the community if he wasn't such a troll.

Nothing wrong with Husks hide, Zippo, if you were experienced at BnG you could hit him easy by using the right shot.

Quote from: Chicken23 on September 02, 2010, 12:07 AM
it was a joke. But this feature isnt that nice. It may result in weaker members getting dropped like bad apples from competitive clans.

maybe it should be only allowed to those who are in charge of the clan? Instead of one guy feeling like the noob compared to the rest of his clan mates. I dont wanna avi crying himself to sleep cus he doesnt win much for mm 

Not really, most clans consist of friends having a good time, and all the clans that are really competitive, they wouldn't recruit someone unless they know they are good, just because you have a low winning percentage doesn't mean you such, for example you could continously be losing to a better more experienced clan, and just because avi's % is 37, doesn't mean it's his fault, I bet at least 25% of those losses weren't his fault, it takes 2 to tango so both players are to blame.

Lol Zippo, just lol...