Quote from: raffie on April 14, 2024, 05:45 PM
I personally hope we will never start banning people from this already small community, from this silly little game we all love. And if there are those who cannot cope with certain things typed in WormNet, again, why not have an option to mute users.

I actually agree, I hope we don't have to resort to banning people either.

Though, if people become too hostile towards others, they will eventually draw attention from some kind of authority.

An option to mute users would be better than nothing, but the ability to ban people who are too extreme would be better.

When I said off the face of the Earth I'm saying "I believe the world would be a better place without toxic people", it's not like I'd send them all into space without a space suit or anything lol.

Quote from: Kradie on April 14, 2024, 04:39 PM
If two or more dudes are playing a game on their own, they have the rights to talk about whatever. If there are more people present, they should leave if they don't like the topic.

Well that depends on where it is. Like, you wouldn't be going into someone elses house saying stuff they don't want to hear and expect them to leave their own house lol. As MI said, as I said, and as others have said... Environment is very important, every environment has their own laws/rules/guidelines, it would be wise to follow them.

If you want to speak about anything in the privacy of a friend, that's between you 2 alone. The moment you step into the public you're part of the public, and the public will hold you responsible if you don't co-exist peacefully. It's not like you even have a choice when you are in someone else's domain, your 2 choices are to either follow their rules or they will forcibly remove you one way or another.

If someone comes into your house, and they aren't comfortable, yes, they should leave. Though if you go into someone elses house and start making them feel uncomfortable, you should leave.

That's why freedom of choice, freedom of speech are illusions... While yes you can literally say and do anything you want, we all know there are certain times and places we wouldn't say or do specific things out of survival and the willingness to co-exist peacefully.

Quote from: Kradie on April 14, 2024, 02:56 PM
Because you assume the worst of people with the Intel you see.

No, YOU think I assume the worst of people, though I don't.

I judge you based on what I've seen first hand, and yes online in games you're much more pleasant to be around, me too probably because we both talk less and play more lol.

Admittedly, I think you're a lot nicer these days than some years ago, though I can say the same for myself lol.

Quote from: Kradie on April 14, 2024, 02:56 PM
Let me tell you what I think of YOU based on what I have observed only here on the forums. You have a massive ego that fueled by self-righteousness. You judge and berate people if they differ with you. You come across as this white knight on a horse waving the sword of truth. You overwhelm people with sermons and obvious speeches. Nobody likes that.

Yeah that's fine, there are quite a number of people who think of me that way, generally speaking it comes with the territory of being actively confrontational.

Judge, yes, though I don't agree with "berate" as I don't condemn people who differ from me. That's something that you do, case in point what you said here with the following about "baby's diaper":

Quote from: Kradie on April 14, 2024, 02:56 PM
Perhaps what I said is just ''opinion''. Perhaps someone will say otherwise. But remember, this is what I have observed here on these forums.

And I can see you can't let go this whole parachute discussion. Parachute is a clutch, it is a baby's diaper. You're a grown man, you can walk without it and not have the fear to fall on your ass.

Using the parachute emulates a more realistic environment than playing without one just like real life sports that use safety equipment to escalate their strength and agility.

You  keep saying it's a clutch while failing to realize it's significance, importance and usefulness.

Your mistake is thinking people NEED it to just play, they don't need it, but it makes them more powerful, it's a tool, not a clutch lol.

Quote from: Zalo the moler on April 14, 2024, 02:02 PM
or... maybe you just assume the worst in people?

Nah not really, these things are based on experience knowing Kradie for a long time and seeing how he thinks in general. Also note that I did not say it's bad to have more limited beliefs. This seems to happen a lot around here, people making assumptions that what is being said is bad.

Sometimes limits are very positive and you can gain a lot from them.

For example, he looks at using parachute in Roper as "like using crutches" that we are inferior for using parachute. Though the funny thing is by using a parachute you actually increase the human skill cap meaning we can push ourselves faster, harder, more consistently. Similar to how professional racing drivers use safety features like seat belts, roll cages and in some cases like drag racing, literal parachutes lol!

It's good to have variety, while I sit here talking about rules etc, It is in the sense that also advocate free thinking, to push your own barriers and limits as much as possible.

The fact that you rope without any safety measures, like climbing up a mountain without ropes and harnasses, puts you at greater risk, and this awareness of risk makes you more careful and cautious. To many this is boring... But not to all! That's why it's variety!

Kradie has a lot of these beliefs, that are ironic and contradictive to his very reasoning for believing in them. All I've ever tried to do is show him a more powerful perspective that could elevate his own skills and success in life.

Quote from: Triad on April 14, 2024, 12:49 PM
These are the official rules that Komo put on his map and they are mentioned in the chally description, so you have to follow them.

Even though you're technically correct, screw you for putting the blame on me!

Kidding, of course!

Quote from: Shtaket on April 14, 2024, 01:52 PM
I hit 9 four times in a row. I think there used to be some kind of bonus for this or am I mistaken?

Yeah, you're thinking of dS Tours, which I am hoping will make a return if we get enough interested players, still have the dS Tours program that Tomi made us.

During a Tour, the points you earned were based on your overall score and performance. So you could still lose the Tour overall, but come out with more points than your opponents...

For example, in a 4 player Tour... You play 4 maps, and if you won 1 map and finished 2nd 3 times, and other guy came 1st 3 times and 2nd once you would finish 2nd overall.

So you would get 3 points for coming 2nd in a 4 player Tour, 1st gets 4, 3rd gets 2 and 4th gets 1.

Now, on top of that, you can get bonus points! If you got 3x Bullseye consecutively you got an extra point, if you got a perfect game, you got an extra 5 points. If you got a perfect tour, which is win all maps, you get an extra 2 points!

So you could get 3x bullseye in 4 maps and get 4 extra points! giving you 7 points and 1st place 4. It's a nice way to reward overall and consistent performance.

Kradie, everything you ever interact with teaches you something on some level.

It's just funny how you talk about limiting other peoples life with "rules" when your beliefs are more limited than most people I've seen here.

Quote from: Zalo the moler on April 14, 2024, 11:30 AM
Calling him "Toxic" or "Disgusting Human being" is the actual hate speech, that you guys want to ban people for.

I didn't call Kradie a disgusting human being... Neither did I directly call him toxic here. I called everybody toxic lol.

I said, specifically:

Quote from: TheKomodo on April 13, 2024, 05:06 PM
It's not a surprise that toxic people don't like censorship lol.

Also, Zalo, don't worry about it, we're good now!

I also don't consider you toxic, at all.

Quote from: Kradie on April 14, 2024, 12:02 PM
But if you start to add rules, you give people little choice but to comply because of herde mentality. Making a choice will become Impossible out of fear of being ostracized.

Kradie, you seem to constantly be living in the "now", with no gratitude to the past and future.

Without rules, without guidance, without "standards" and "limits" we wouldn't even be sitting here having this conversation.

As a living being, alive, in this universe, we NEED rules, we NEED guidance, in order to learn how to survive and thrive together on this little blue ball called Earth.

If you don't give anyone any rules, emotions, experiences, and objectives to follow in life, they may feel like they never have any purpose.

Also - EVERYTHING IS A REMIX!

This is important because the only reason we know how to do ANYTHING, is due to the environment we exist in teaching us how to do everything we know how to do.

Saying that you give people little choice, it's the complete opposite! By adding rules, we now know what to do and don't do which gives us MORE choice! To either obey, or disobey, but either choice has consequences.

You really need to understand this more if you want to live a more fulfilling life, I believe.

Quote from: Kradie on April 14, 2024, 12:02 PM
Obviously you should not exercise and abuse freedom of speech publicly with animosity. You shouldn't even seek out the random guy and start fight with. I mean you technically can, but no one in their right state of mind would do that.

Exactly, even in your own words there is no such thing as freedom of speech because "no one in their right state of mind" would do that.

That is the point exactly! You wouldn't go up to someone you love and care about that you hate them and you're going to kill them.

This is why freedom of choice is an illusion, it's nice to know you CAN say anything you want, but that you have control over that power because you have to in order to co-exist, otherwise people won't ever help you, and you will die alone.

Quote from: Kradie on April 14, 2024, 12:02 PM
Animals does not possess reasoning skills as humans. This analogy is flawed and ridiculous.

Just because animals do not possess the same intelligence as humans, does not make the analogy flawed and ridiculous.

Extreme, yes, but ridiculous, no.

The point is that you know you wouldn't employ "freedom of speech" or even act without caution in the presence of a Lion. It's the same in real life with humans, you can sit there and talk about freedom of speech all you want, but I'm pretty sure we all know that deep down Kradie, you would not actually say what's on your mind in many situations out of survival instinct, this is something that we all share.

This alone is proof there is no such thing as freedom of speech, it's an illusion, like being "independent" lol.

@Kradie

The most important thing I want to address first from Kradie:

Quote from: Kradie on April 14, 2024, 12:55 AM
You always have a choice, and each choice may have a repercussion to it which is something that YOU are responsible of. People will always have a choice. So if you start to restrict freedom of speech, movement, what have you, people would not want to face consequence.

I want YOU to at least have the chance to become educated in reality, at least if you had a chance, nobody can say "Well, he didn't have a chance did he?".

"You always have a choice, and each choice may have a repercussion to it which is something that YOU are responsible of"

To begin with, there is no "may", there are 100%, definitely, unequivocally repercussions to EVERYTHING. This is how the universe works, this is called "The Butterfly Effect / Chaos Theory". Every single action, thought, EVERYTHING you do, influences the entire planet. Every time new life arrives into existence on our planet, we are ALL responsible for how it turns out because of the butterfly effect.

EVERYTHING affects EVERYTHING ELSE... EVERYTHING influences EVERYTHING ELSE, directly and indirectly, but everything is connected one way or another.

People always have a choice, though this is the crucial thing you NEED to learn... Not with everything! Because the way the universe works... This is why people can overpower other people, 100 people shouting is louder than 1 person shouting. This is why we have competition, winners and losers.

I strongly believe, personally, there is no scientific evidence for this that I know of, yet... There is no such thing as individual free will, but we have mutual free will because we cannot even exist without essentially male and female reproductive systems, there is of course parthenogenesis however that still includes, yep, you guessed it, multiple things working together! This is mutual, not individual. Your whole body isn't even individual, you share it with other living beings.

Not to mention that:

For the most part, for "normal" behaviour, rape is not a choice, being murdered is not a choice, even being born is not a choice.

If you believe in freedom of speech, and call someone an idiot to their face, and even if you didn't "choose" it to happen, you will momentary have a very high possibility of being punched in the face and having your nose broke.

---

What Kradie doesn't realize, or seem to show an understanding of, is a massive simple truth of the reality that we all share and live in, is that there are limits to EVERYTHING...

He says "That's your opinion", but it's not an opinion, it's a UNIVERSAL FACT, I mean, try going up to a Lion, start shouting at him that he's an ugly useless rodent Kradie, see how far you get! The same thing applies to humans - THERE ARE LIMITS:

There is a limit to how much alcohol a person can consume before they become inebriated, pass out, or worse need to be hospitalized.

There is a limit to how much physical exercise you can do in any one session before you cannot take it anymore and collapse breathing wildly out of breath.

There is a limit to how long we live before we die, how much pain we can tolerate before we scream or cry, also how much pleasure we can tolerate before we try to wriggle free.

There is a limit to what we can say without it being negative to other people.

I'm glad MonkeyIsland summed it up nicely and made the point about atmosphere and yes I'm not perfect, nobody is, everybody gets into little beefs now and again which for the most part is fine... As the main thing I was going to say when I returned is that, yes, you can literally say anything you can think of but think of it this way:

You have inherent individual free speech while you do not inherently have mutual freedom of speech, which means, you can say what you want while you're alone, but when you are with other people you need to co-exist with them peacefully.

You need to abide by your parents rule when you live with them, you need to abide by your town/country rules when you live there. Freedom of speech isn't there so everyone can just say LITERALLY anything they want, it's there to support the notion that we ALL deserve a say and to try and live together peacefully.

The whole point of freedom of speech is so we can co-exist as peacefully as possible, NOT the opposite which Kradie believes for some weird reason, this is something I wish I could help him learn because I believe he'd be happier if he understood this.

It's when those beefs are prolonged or when a beef turns into full on bullying and hatred that's a problem. For the most part that stems from insecurity. As MonkeyIsland has said... I've got fed up myself a number of times and while I may only disappear for months instead of years it's still frustrating when you genuinely want to see people get along with each other.

I've known good friends to quit because they got fed up logging on and seeing petty fights, including petty fights I'm involved in!

---

@Zalo

Quote from: Zalo the moler on April 14, 2024, 09:10 AM
Komito, your toxicity literally made me quit WA.exe from 2018 to 2021. And yet you show your true colors here in this thread insulting people who have different opinion... Do you see the irony?

See, that's something there, I still strongly believe I didn't do anything seriously wrong but make fun of the entire situation that you were in with Daina...

This actually bothered me a little bit because the irony was in you blaming me yet me being the only person who was actually defending you, I was the only one who was talking about Mole Shopper in a positive manner saying that Zalo had legit skills... Yet you blamed me alone for you wanting to leave because I made some jokes on stream...

There's a difference between just trying to have a laugh with people, and deliberately trying to hurt someones feelings.

Also, you brought that on yourself when you talked the talk but couldn't walk the walk Zalo, you said you could beat ANYONE if they trained for 2 weeks, then when Daina took the time to actually take on your bet, you cancelled it and that made a few people pretty angry.

I made fun of the situation, you took it personally.

That being said, I genuinely felt guilty and actually apologized to you because by nature I'm a bit of a class clown, always trying to do silly, stupid things to make people laugh and make light of situations... I grew up with a lot of suffering and having a very big sense of humour is a huge coping mechanism.

None of it was ever intended to genuinely make you feel bad and I'm sorry for that...

To this day, I still make fun of Mole Shopper but yet I still praise it, and I've praised you personally on stream highly as well.

Quote from: Zalo the moler on April 14, 2024, 09:10 AM
But can you just let people disagree with you at least one time without insulting them, Komito? Or is it too hard for you?

I do not insult people every time they disagree with me LOL! It's strange to me that people can carry ONE example of negativity with them for so long, yet quickly forget about all the praise, positivity and time/help you offer/gave them. The only drama I saw between us was the whole Daina Mole Shopper thing, though as I said, you kind of brought that on yourself with the way you acted.

It sucks that you got so offended by that, it's one of these situations that's not even offensive, but rather embarassing when you're the one being made fun of and everyone is laughing at you, but you have no problem laughing at other people when they are the ones being singled out in an embarassing way. It's actually part of what makes it so funny, it's like some kind of ritual that most people go through, I've had it happen to me many times growing up, honestly, I've done some REALLY embarassing things that would make you look like a chad lmao.

I'm not going to deny, I'm not perfect, my life is a journey and I'm always trying to better myself, but sometimes yes someone says something that I find extremely toxic or full of lies and I feel the need to say something about it... Yes I've directly insulted people in the past if they've barked first.

I try my best not to directly insult people out of nowhere, at least not intentionally with the intention of being malicious. Usually them feeling insulted is due to the way I say things like:

"Don't act stupid" - This isn't me trying to insult them, it's me saying that the thing they did is literally stupid... Not that THEY are stupid, there's a difference, clever people can do stupid things and I do them all the time LOL!

Also, another huge part of why some people are on edge with me is because of how much I type, or how I never give up then they start using actual ad-hominems so then I retaliate with ad-hominems. Maybe I feel fine saying stuff like that to other people because I'm my own worst critique, anything anyone has ever said to me I've said worse to myself.

Quote from: Kradie on April 14, 2024, 12:06 AM
Well that's your opinion of course. I stand completely opposite here. People who advocates for censorship are usual evil people.

That's not an opinion it's a universal fact lol.

Look at the google result you get when you type in "Freedom of speech". "Freedom of speech is a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or a community to articulate their opinions and ideas without fear of retaliation, censorship, or legal sanction." In order to have "freedom of speech" you're stripping away another persons rights to express themselves, and if that expression is to shut you up, or punch you in the face, then checkmate.

You cannot have freedom of speech because there are literal consequences to every single word you think, write, speak, or say in any other form of communication or existence. Nothing in life is "free" because at the very least it costs us time and process, cause and effect.

Freedom of speech is more about protecting minorities to make them feel more like part of humanity, instead of outcasts.

Quote from: Kradie on April 14, 2024, 12:06 AM
You should not obsess about a random Insult given by a random person online. Because that random person doesn't mean anything to your life. Only the people you made good friends with. These are the people that matters, their words matter more than a random person's words.

If you were to take your own advice, you wouldn't be even having this conversation.

Quote from: Gabriel on April 13, 2024, 06:36 PM
so i think W:A had some sort of moderation, i used to join the IRC chat to report impersonators and spammers and there were some people kind of "there", but apparently it was too hard to stop the people from just getting another IP and starting stuff again. this doesn't mean we shouldn't have moderation but it won't solve all of the problems.

Yeah that's the problem, the bans are temporary bans as well.

Everything needs moderation, everything needs balance... Like it's ok to drink alcohol in moderation as well, doesn't just apply to "law".

Moderation doesn't even inherently oppose freedom, it's actually quite the opposite... Creating an environment where people respect and tolerate each other so they can feel "free" to do things they enjoy doing without worrying about people trying to kill them or judge them in a malicious way for just being nice and trying to have fun playing a video game in a safe environment lol.

Quote from: Gabriel on April 13, 2024, 06:36 PM
you know what's tyranny? forcing most people to deal with impersonators, spammers, people like Rafal. at some point there was a group of argentinians playing this game, they even promoted a chilean hate youtube channel where they basically praised any event where chileans were killed, including earthquakes. if "freedom of speech" means i have to deal with people like these then i'm not quite sure if i agree with it.

Yeah, "freedom of speech" is impossible, and usually whenever I see anybody get obsessed with being against "censorship" and promoting "freedom of speech" it's usually related to something malicious or actual hatred.

Because honestly... Most people are pretty cool if you accept them for who they are and treat them like another chill person, even ripping on each other for fun lol.

It's not a surprise that toxic people don't like censorship lol.

Quote from: raffie on April 13, 2024, 04:10 PM
Bad idea IMO, people who can't cope with a few no-no words on a computer screen are the ones who create a toxic environment is what we all should have learned these last few years. If you're gonna start banning people from playing WA because they said something whoever the moderator is finds offensive, I think we're gonna lose a lot of wormers, entirely possible I could be banned too, after 20 years of playing. It always begins with the magic words "racism", "homophobia", w/e stuff like that. Before you know it you get banned for "misgendering" some tranny.
Add the option to mute anyone you want in WormNet, problem solved IMO.

First of all... It's not just "a few no-no words on a computer screen".

For every idiot who thinks it's a good idea to bully other people... You know with a great deal of confidence they have either been bullied themselves, nobody likes them and they are lonely, or they delusionally believe they are cool, and will get a wake up call in 20 years when they are living alone with no partner, no children, no friends, nobody who respects them.

The sheer delusional state of clownship for someone to say it's the people who don't like being treated negatively by toxic people that are toxic people. That's all shocking, delusional and hilarious.

Honestly, if we "lost a lot of wormers" if we started to ban people for being racist, homophobic, transphobic etc, I'd say good riddance to them, if only we could get rid of them off the face of the Earth entirely then we'd be cooking with gas.

Anyway, I've had countless people confide in me, sharing their experiences, especially a number of women who thanks to a few specific people they don't even play anymore.

It's not just an opinion, it's a fact, it's one of the big reasons why this game doesn't have "nicer" people playing, and a HUGE deterrent to younger players because of the toxic environment with so many males who take it upon themselves to harass and abuse other people in a written verbal manner.

Like it or not, more and more people don't like bullies, more than ever bullies get put in their place, more than ever bullies are losing their power, this is a good thing, not a bad thing.

The point is, if you like this game, and you like having interesting people to play with, then you aren't helping by being a toxic clown.

"LONDYN"

Love the presentation of these challenges!

Just noticed these guys played this Fort on a void map:

https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-5048/

Read the rules:

"No invading.
Standard size maps only."

-

Because the Cup is already finished, the game will stand, but Rocket wanted to use a shot from this match as a prize winning shot, which he cannot use because it wasn't the right kind of map. So we cannot use that now.