Quote from: Farco on May 29, 2014, 12:57 AM
I tried using the character map through there but a lot of them doesn't work. I'm just wondering if there are certain ones that will work in WA

A lot of them don't work.  Certain ones work in WA.  If you want to find out which, try it out in WA.  If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.  That is my method, tried and true.

Daily 5/18:
Miami vs Indiana.  Miami -2; pick'em
Hibbert Over/Under 7 points

Miami to cover
Hibbert under 7 points

Daily 5/27:

OKC vs SAS
Over/Under 207½ points
Yes/No Ibaka double double
Over/Under 10 words Popovich between quarter interview

I've got the over on points, no double double, and popovich being unusually talkative with more than 10 words.

Game 3 interview:

Quote from: darKz on May 23, 2014, 10:44 AM
Buddhists are atheists by definition, yet they believe in a lot of things like empathy and forgiving. Imo they're the prime example of why the belief in a supernatural being is not at all necessary to be(come) a good and caring person.

Buddhism is a great philosophy for that reason.  Not a religion by definition, but in my estimation is a guiding force for the greater good.  Also, I apologize for not clarifying my beliefs earlier, but Darkz post made me remember, I have a strong belief that people live a spiritual life to fulfill their potential, whatever that may be.  I believe that people that live a life not dedicated to self are destined for enlightenment in the afterlife.  I think I made religion my vessel for argument because the two are obviously interrelated and it was convenient to use the same vernacular. 

Quote from: Aerox on May 23, 2014, 07:09 AM
Social evil? I already asked if you were trying to balance the good vs the bad of religion for the overall of society. You didn't answer. Speaking for myself, I'd never go there. However, there's lots of bad coming from religion. People live happier with faith sure. There are studies revealing that being a slave also offers comfort to one's live.

Sure, there's money laundering, there's food for the poor and there's erm... spiritual guidance... sure that's good for society. But what about all the actual documented evils religion has brought, and brings by nature?

I'm not trying to balance anything, but if I was omnipotent, I would. 

There is no documented evil that religion (as a discipline) brings by nature.  I challenge you to show me this 'documentation.'

Quote from: Aerox on May 23, 2014, 07:09 AM
Is it because us humans got religion all wrong? Is religion good but our intepretation of it leads us to do bad things because we're bad but religion isn't? I really don't get why we're the crazys because we see things for what they are? What are we missing? A revelation?

Good questions.  I believe that human beings inherently mess up religion as well as pretty much everything else.  We are a sloppy, self-involved, corrupted species, myself included.  Religion is inherently good, selfish interpretation of spirituality is bad.  A bad interpretation would be pontiff worship in the Catholic church.  A single man should never be elevated by religion like he is.  There is much wrong with that religion, I renounced it many years ago.  The Catholic church does a lot of good, but is utterly corrupt.

Quote from: Mablak on May 23, 2014, 07:54 AM
As for inherent positives, no one has demonstrated that there are in fact positives that religion brings, that secularism doesn't also bring (on the whole). I did not demonize religious motives in any way; I may think the religious who do good are sometimes doing so for the wrong reasons, but I wouldn't suggest they're not doing good when they perform acts that genuinely help people.

No one has demonstrated the positives secularism brings eclipse those of religion, as a whole.  See what I did there?  Both are anomalous statements. 

How can someone do good for the wrong reasons?  People always do good for the right reasons in my estimation, because the good one puts forth is always more valuable than whatever ideation led them to their decision to do good.

Quote from: Mablak on May 23, 2014, 07:54 AM
You seem to have assumed I'm saying that religion reduces empathy, giving, etc, when I'm merely arguing there's no evidence that it boosts these things above what the non-religious do.

Then you don't realize that your pervasive and running point is that religion creates more evil than it does good.  It is written all up and down your posts.

As far as your cited source, the church gave 4.7b of it's revenue to charity, not 4.7%, but it looks to be about 4.7% anyways so that is kosher regardless.  Catholic charities, however, in not represented in your graph and is what I was referencing.  Catholic charities gives far more than 4.7% of their gross; your graph shows the Church giving 4.7% to charity, most of that which goes to Catholic charities. 



Catholic church spending is not the same as the charitable foundation that they have established.  Catholic charities is a wonderful organization, but represents a small part of the gross revenue of the church.

Quote from: Aerox on May 21, 2014, 07:08 AM
why u mad walrus, no one getting rigged right now is it?

I want spurs to win, hopefuly will have more teams playing proper basketball and the NBA will be funner to watch

Haha I was dead wrong, my roommate told me before the draft cleveland would have a top 3 pick again, and I told him he was a complete moron.  Still stunned he called that one. 

Spurs will win, because of Pop:

Quote from: Farco on May 22, 2014, 07:42 PM
I am just wondering... I did a hit and run 8-9 month I believe and I regretted it and went to the police station and told them my problem. I went to court and I asked them to put me into probation (which means I cannot get any traffic tickets for 5 months). Anyways, once I get out of probation period after 5 months of no traffic tickets, does it still show on your driving record? I am asking this because I am applying for pizza delivery and they said they'll look at my driving record so I am scared that the hit and run thing will still show on my driving record even though I went through probation period.

Thanks,

Latios.

Probation has nothing to do with your driving record.  Only expungement truly guarantees that something is removed from your driving record.  Probation just means that you will get your licence revoked if you get any further infractions.  If there was no plea bargain from your lawyer, or decision by the court, then it is on your record and will never be removed.  You did consult a lawyer before you went into court, I hope?  Otherwise you are borderline uninsurable and will be paying horrendous premiums for at least 10 years.  No pizza place, livery, or otherwise will hire you.

Quote from: HHC on May 23, 2014, 12:54 AM
OMG did you just seperate state from church? OMFG!

The debate was kinda over neway? 

There is no point arguing with the lunatic fringe.  I've done the best I can but some atheists are fixated on religion as a social evil, or even a redux on freedom that should be abolished.  I really don't have much incentive to carry on a dialogue when people start making the inference that religion is a product of being poorly informed or ignorant of scientific fact. 

Quote from: Mablak on May 22, 2014, 10:30 AM
I believe the claim that religious people give more (even as a percentage of their disposable income if we're going to account for wealth differences), has no evidence going for it. The only studies I've seen making this claim include church donations as charitable ones, even though the majority of church donations go towards operating costs. The Mormon Church, for example, gives only about 0.7% of its annual income to charity. If we dismiss 'church' counting as 'charity', religious states in the US don't actually donate more than the less religious states: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/11/28/are-religious-people-really-more-generous-than-atheists-a-new-study-puts-that-myth-to-rest/

The study you posted is an absolute joke, lol.  It's "evidence" includes a non-conclusive map of the US, as if all southerners are religious, and all northerners atheist.  All donations that were given to a religious charity were discounted, even though the largest charity network in the US, catholic charities USA, operates solely to distribute money for the greater good, and not for the gain of the church.  There is no differentiation between giving to the church and giving to a church-established charity, even though there is an explicit difference into where the money goes (If you don't understand what the difference is, just google tithing, then compare to donating to charity).  I can't believe your stomach can digest this pallette of bullshit that this article has served up.

Quote from: Mablak on May 22, 2014, 10:30 AM
Not quite sure what you mean about Iran versus Sweden though, happiness or well-being is the only thing that I think can possibly matter in terms of morality.

I made the argument they are philosophical inverses of one another.  That is what I mean.

Quote from: DarkOne on May 22, 2014, 10:33 AM
Comparing Sweden to Iran is very extreme, Wally.

Again, I claimed they are philosophical inverses of one another.  Not so much a comparison as I was pointing out they are complete opposites.  Broadstrokes, D1.

Quote from: Mablak on May 22, 2014, 10:30 AMFor example, if you're saying Sweden is losing its capacity for critical thought, because there are too many people who agree with each other on the god issue, this would seem to be an argument that they could be missing out on some important philosophical realizations that would engender greater happiness for them if they had more theists around (and producing greater happiness would seem to be the only reason philosophy is important). I don't really see this as an issue though, we're not losing out on anything by having a society where everyone's in agreement that say, racism, homophobia, etc, are wrong, or that Santa Claus isn't real.

Mablak, you got the thrust of what I was saying perfectly before you lost your mind and cited racism, homophobia, and santa claus. 

Quote from: Aerox on May 22, 2014, 12:02 PM

Quote from: the walrusHow many deeply held beliefs are harmful to society at large?  A minority, to be sure.

you mean historically or right now? are you trying to put in a balance the hinder to progress religion has in a society versus the good it makes making everyone support each other? I have assumptions of my own you see, and it has to do with religion education being more accesible than genuine education. There's plenty of poor ass countries with religious working class, you think these people are genuinely good because of god or are stupid enough that they believe that doing their deeds is their only way out of the slump? Is it moraly right for those societies because it keeps the working class from giving up on life completely?

Morality doesn't even enter the equation.  Just the idea that people are free to practice and the state doesn't hinder their ability to do so. 

Quote from: the walrusI could make the argument that a minority of atheistic views, namely ones that damn autonomy, are harmful to the masses.  Each group has it's zealots that conjure up their own spin to their cause that instigates harmful movements. 

Quote from: Aerox on May 22, 2014, 12:02 PM
really now, idiots do exist everywhere, but tell me what sort of atheist views damn autonomy? and how many people have been murdered on the name of atheism?

The quote is in reference to zealotry, not the widely held beliefs of the group, but merely the radicals.  Example that damn autonomy: The atheist radicals that want to punish parents for child abuse in the instances of teaching their children their religion.  But there is a million, just google "atheist radical beliefs" or something to that effect, I don't think you need to though, it seems by the content of your posts you basically get it.

Quote from: HHC on May 22, 2014, 12:04 PM
As much as it may hurt your atheist heart.. I wouldn't complain about it. God is one of the major pillars of American society, if you break it down you will surely hurt the moral fabric of society, and thereby, society itself.

Truer words have never been spoken.  Instead of focusing on the inherent positives that religion brings, Mablak has chosen to go down the road of demonizing all religious motives.  It's a slippery slope that I choose not to go down with my view on atheism.  I'm no atheist, but if I start damning everything they stand for, I lose my objectivity, which appears to be what has happened to Mablak with his views on Christians and the like. 

Quote from: van on May 22, 2014, 09:59 AM
ANO's rhetoric might not be of the best kind but his point is valid.
Asbest is gone and no one here cares about him anymore. Bumping this thread with stuff like that is just straight-up immature. That's why the community's reaction backfired.

My vote is: lock this thread and remove the goddamn announcement from the homepage already!

Van for president.

It must hurt being so on point all the time.

Quote from: Mablak on May 22, 2014, 06:26 AM
Your claim that religious organizations do the majority of support is true, merely because there are many more religious people than non-religious people, the question is what proportion of each is doing good. There are plenty of non-religious organizations doing good in the US and elsewhere, like Doctors Without Borders, which the atheist section of reddit has raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for, Oxfam, the ACLU, Unicef, the Red Cross, Foundation Beyond Belief, Planned Parenthood, KIVA, The American Humanist Association, the British Humanist Association (many countries have these), Direct Relief International, etc. And these organizations help people without the added harm of proselytizing irrational beliefs. There is precious little evidence to suggest a religion-free world would somehow do less good than a religious one, given how much good secular organizations accomplish in relation to their small numbers.

I think you are in the same ballpark as I am on this one Mab, but there are a few points I think you took some liberties with.  You claim that proportionally there are more religious people than non-religious people, which is true.  You claim that there is a question of what proportion of each is doing the most good.  You really don't have an argument on this one.  Religious people, say, per capita for our uses, give more than non-religious people.  Adjusting for the overall disparity of numbers still yields raw data that the religious are giving money at a much, much higher rate than the non-religious.  I've seen the numbers, I can't really remember where, but should you choose to dispute this point I'm sure I can dig it up.

If you really wanted to argue the disparity, I would stick with the fact that more money is given by religious people because the majority of the upper class, the people who give the most, are the religious right in the USA.  The few of this class gives more than any other group at very high rates, bolstered by the fact they are receiving tax breaks, which further incentivizes them to continue "giving".  These folks basically blow any atheist grassroots type programs out of the water in aggregate gross donations.  We don't know how much donating the atheists would do if they controlled the upper class, perhaps as much, but the numbers seem to suggest otherwise.  In short, of course religious people are giving more money.  They have more money to give.

The "proselytizing", or purveying of these irrational and harmful beliefs extends far less than I imagine you conceive it does.  How many deeply held beliefs are harmful to society at large?  A minority, to be sure.  I could make the argument that a minority of atheistic views, namely ones that damn autonomy, are harmful to the masses.  Each group has it's zealots that conjure up their own spin to their cause that instigates harmful movements. 

To me, the answer lies in the middle.  Countries are different because the ruling bodies have been composed of like-minded people who have either usurped power or forced out opposition, and rarer still, the countries who have balanced both sides.  The atheists must be balanced with the religious to ensure harmony, because neither side is going away.  I submit to you that countries such as Sweden are inherently flawed as a Iran, for example.  Not to the extent of overall happiness, but philosophically.  One group has become too strong and drowned out the minority opinion.  The smartest thinkers in my estimation are those that can compromise, and a solution is only as good as its application by the people it is intended for. 

I love the USA because it is a country where discourse is as free as the Obamaphones.

Walrus
(Your friendly neighborhood evangelical)

I've just confirmed that passwords containing special characters, or hyphens specifically (-) do not work.  I changed my password on tus to one without a hyphen and now I can logon to the 2v2 client.

I predict one of the lakers or celtics move up to the top 2 picks because league is rigged.

Quote from: Statik on May 20, 2014, 10:33 AM
The grass is greener on the other side of the fence

Doesn't work for me or I don't know my password

I've heard Poland is a complete shithole from Polish people that live over in the United States now.  They told me stories of it being polluted to shit and acid rain falling from the sky and how the cities are all very dirty.  Seems from this thread the eastern europeans are not all that happy about their home these days.