It says right in the video:

Great stream Coru. Very well-played and even matches by both players, and congrats to Mab. Excellent commentary! I watched the whole thing and feel like I learned a bunch about Intermediate. Stayed engaged watching 3 hours of a scheme that has never much captured my interest.

Just got this idea watching the latest CWT stream: 
Built in voice chat, audio automatically saved in replays.  Players muted by default.  With an option to record or not record audio, and whether to listen to audio.  With some kind of visual indicator of who is talking/muted/listening/recording.

Audio file sizes are tiny and storage is cheap and plentiful.  Would be nice for spectator commentaries and overall archival of funny/memorable moments.

It would also encourage more impromptu team games between strangers with deeper teamwork and strategizing.

Just an idea - not saying it's my #1 suggestion or even that I'd necessarily use it much myself.  Thoughts?

Nice video.  I enjoyed the cow triple kill. 
How do you do this?  Requires a private TA build? Or maybe you found a way to extract maps (including damage) from a specific point of the replay?  I assume we're not watching pre-release version 3.9 footage.

Edit:  I see now this is fixing mistakes from Mablak vs Afina's CWT match.

Quote from: Kaleu on February 15, 2025, 12:33 AMMany advanced keyboards will do the same action. Are we considering them cheating apparel?

"Cheating apparel" wouldn't be my choice of words -- that implies a moral wrongness to the product itself.  And you're kinda putting me on the spot, forcing an opinion.  But yes, I think:  if the game doesn't natively allow you to configure single actions to produce multiple inputs, then such keyboards should be considered illegal. 

These keyboards seem innocent enough with one extra incrementation, but it's a slippery slope.  If we allow those, what would disallow people from using keyboards where the keys have 100 mechanical increments, with a mechanical switch for each step, spaced 0.1mm apart? It would essentially be an analog rapid fire button.

What if you could configure how many of those 100 switches were actually active for each key?  Let's say you take the key apart and physically manipulate each of the 100 switches that you want to work or not work (for the sake of argument) to avoid similarities with macros (which everyone agrees are cheats).  You could make one key your shadow button (3 active switches), another key with all switches on (for easy scrolls), and so on. 

For morse code competitions (if they used keyboards) people could adjust the switches on/off in a pattern corresponding to dots and dashes so that one steady hard press would rapidly key their morse code ident or any predefined message.  Each keyboard button could have a different predefined message configured via said physical switches.  More realistically there are easily-imagined applications for any rhythm-based game.  I'm not much of a gamer so I can't really predict how it might be used exactly. 

Even if none of it was useful for W:A I doubt those keyboards would be allowed in any live videogame / morse competitive tournaments.

Anything that emulates one physical action to one single keypress = legit.  Whether it's a button on your keyboard, controller, etc.

Anything that creates multiple inputs from just one action = cheating.  Whether it's a physical button on your keyboard or a macro.

WkKeyRemap (an old module) is considered cheating because it registers the next keypress before the previous key-up is received.  So you can have multiple spacebars and tap quickly without having to time your finger roll accurately. It's not a macro, just an oversight of the program author. Technically the action of pressing the key down and then back up are two distinct physical actions.

WkRemapKeys (current module) is legit because it discards multiple keypresses if the key is still in key-down state. Just like a real keyboard.

Wooting/fancy keyboards that have an intermediate stop on the spacebar, so a half-actuation presses space once, and a full actuation presses twice, are a grey area.  If you accept that one hard press = one physical action, it's cheating according to my definition above, because you get two physical inputs from one action. Maybe my definition is wrong.

Some cheats are worse than others.  WkWormOrder, transparent water/background soil, and arguably Wooting keyboards would be on one end of the villain spectrum, and advanced aimbots on the other end.  We really shouldn't vilify people equally.  Also frequency of cheating is another factor in one's level of villainny.

Quote from: Corujão on February 14, 2025, 05:39 AMDue to major misunderstandings (distortions): The community work that DeadCode does is indisputably exceptional and I believe that this is not the point of the discussion. I learned a lot from him, observing his skills in replays and even playing together in the Team17 scheme.

The main criticism is aimed at the pseudomoralists who are selective in their questioning rather than impartial. It is easy to dismiss legitimate concerns and label them as "crazy accusations" when they involve someone with high status in the community.

No one is saying that someone's skill was conquered illegally, but completely ignoring any possibility of advantage or special convenience is naive. This is not about frivolous accusations, but rather about reflect how supposed practices can be veiled and tolerated depending on who performs them.

It is known that cheating should not be relativized or encouraged, but I see that many people are limited in the interpretation of texts here or do so in a biased manner, distorting the narrative. Dramatic people and those exaggerating the seriousness of the game usually rely on long and endless discussions to appear more moralistic than others. Eventually, It's satisfying to see MonkeyIsland intervenes and removes responses when things get out of control.

And if anyone reading this feels offended by this statement, it's because the shoe fits.

For me, it is no longer worth fostering this discussion.

Sorry dude, my choice of words in "crazy accusation" was maybe not very thoughtful. I just meant that I strongly don't believe it to to be true, not that it's impossible.

Consider this:  when Deadcode's Silkworm 3.5 (private cheat version) was leaked, he countered with Silkworm 4.12 (anti-cheat version) which somehow disabled cheating features of Silkworm 3.5 for everyone in the game if anyone had 4.12 installed.  4.12 was also necessary for Windows XP/2000 compatibility so almost everyone had it.  Super slick and effective solution, all before he even got the source code and all for free. I'm sure it was a monumentally massive brain-splitting effort for him to do this.  Guy has devoted so much time to improving WA and preventing cheats that I just felt an obligation to defend him.  I can see your point about refusing to question certain members of the community, but c'mon it's Deadcode.

I also don't believe for a second that Deadcode cheats. That is a crazy accusation.  He does have a extremely precise understanding about how everything works, easily better than the best NNN player.  So you're likely to witness many pixel-precise jumps, subpixel alignments of things, and you may get slapped with a time-expiring Homing Missile or random oddities you've never even witnessed before.  But it's all earned through years of self-torture lol.

Quote from: TheKomodoIn general, not limited to just this game, cheaters are lowlife, scumbag, cowardly pathetic shells of a human husk and deserve everything bad that ever happens to them, period. In all walks of life.

Scumbag? Sure.  Lowlife, sure.  Cheating probably has an overall harmful effect on something that is good, so it's a shitty and selfish thing to do.

Shell of a human?  Not really.  "Empty shell" applies to anyone who makes something insignificant the defining characteristic of their being and centre of their life.  It's not really related - some people just cheat because they don't give a shit and it's a shortcut to having skill, or they find it enjoyable.

Cheating during league games is likely bad.  But, we can play devil's advocate for a minute. If your enjoyment of WA comes from your heightened abilities and you wouldn't play otherwise: maybe you're actually doing more good on the whole in 2025 by increasing activity of TUS.  For every game you play, someone else is also playing TUS. There aren't so many TUS players that we can assume they'd just play someone else if not with you.

But I think this "increasing activity" factor might only be positive if nobody ever suspects/catches you cheating.

In theory, by successfully cheating undetectedly, you are raising the (perceived) standard of competitive, legitimate play. This could be a good thing.  Whether this standards-raising is an overall-positive thing, though, might depend whether your competitiveness inspires more players to improve (in order to compete), or whether more people just give up and stop trying to compete.  It would also matter whether you encourage them to improve legitimately via practice, or whether you just encourage them to cheat themselves. 

If people know you're cheating then they might be more likely to cheat themselves, and in that case I'd guess that your cheating would be overall more bad than good. 

So if you want to be the most morally-righteous possible cheater, do the following:
1. Cheat secretly but fog everyone into thinking your performance is due to practice, lucky genetics and/or really nice hardware.
2. Talk trash about (historical) cheaters whenever possible, especially if your opinion might influence others not to seek ways to cheat.
3. Do not spread knowledge of ways to cheat, or of the existence of current effective cheating methods.
4. Warn about and exaggerate possible consequences of cheating -- a downwards spiral involving psychologists, depression, self-harm and loathing, loneliness and ultimately death.

Another factor to consider is how undetectable the cheat is and how well-known it is.  If the cat's already out of the bag (that effective undetectable cheats exist) maybe we can't go back to a trustworthy non-cheating league.  Depending how we answer some of the earlier questions, and if TUS and WA activity is considered the prime moral good (as it pertains to WA), maybe we're actually morally obligated to cheat our asses off in TUS matches.

Another thought experiment:  everyone loves talking about Olympics where steroids/PEDs are allowed. If cheating was legitimized by TUS or another league, and if that legitimacy would assuredly result in increased activity of WA and new heights of accomplishment, could it be a net good, as long as games were still a competitive measure of skill/strategy?  Would a cheating league be fun for people and actually improve activity?  Or is too much of the fun having an edge and not getting caught? 
To answer this:  No.  I think that a cheating league would be problematic because it's essentially an all-or-nothing proposition, all cheats allowed or no cheats allowed. Today's cheats might be relatively harmless tap-macros (they aren't), but tomorrow's cheats might give Komo-level bng skills and Mablak-level roping, or better.  We can't be assured that these league games would always remain a competitive measure of skill/strategy.  So, IMO, a league where all cheating is allowed is a terrible idea, at least long-term.  It was ultimately a wasted thought experiment but I've already typed it. And you've probably already read it anyway lol.

All of this until now has been about cheating in leagues, but what about funners?  I don't personally give a shit if people cheat in funners. However some of the above reasoning may apply to funners as well, and impact whether funner cheating is good or bad. 


Anyway, this is all conjecture, to spur discussion. I'm not committing to a side, just interested in the topic. Full disclosure- I have cheated in the long-ago past, including in league games at times. I don't personally feel very compelled by moral issues in general. Humans are a laughably insignificant part of the cosmos (whether there's life elsewhere or not), and morals are just an invention of that insignificance and a mechanism of power and control over said bullshit, like religion. That's beyond the scope here. Basically WA is an old game that I want to not die (and ideally to flourish), but beyond that I don't give a shit how people enjoy it. I gave up on the competitive side long ago and was never very good. Don't make this personal about me.

A final piece of devil's advocacy (which certainly never applied to me):  Whether you cheat or not, the few percent difference between "skilled" and "competitive" (including consistency) takes a ton of effort. Some successful cheaters have put way more total effort into WA than have some of the righteous lifetime-middle-skilled players who might complain about cheaters.  Reaching excellency in anything is admirable, even if it's cheating.  We shouldn't necessarily dismiss all cheaters as if they are trash, since excellency is its own virtue, and cheating may even have indirect benefits (if it's done deceitfully and hypocritically enough).

Easy, just install this: https://github.com/Carlmundo/W2-Plus

Quote from: AndreyNovikov on October 10, 2024, 06:11 PMSo far, Deadcode has not personally answered the question of what he and CyberShadow have done with the community in 4 years and how much longer they will last, and I personally do not know what else can be changed in the game.

They have made their plans known!  You just have to watch their interviews to find out.

Deadcode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMwaqMak6nM
Cybershadow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roITo-edfKQ

If you haven't watched these both in full you waive your right to complain

Quote from: Zemke on May 27, 2022, 06:53 PM
He talks about it here.

Nice find. Interesting read. Exciting times in WA.

@Komo:  That's pretty clever, but about 10 years too late lol.  I doubt anyone wants to go to all that trouble now that we have an actual working realtime mod.

Really nice video.  I also wish the private version could be made public.  They must be worried that it could be reverse engineered or modified to play online.  I have used an older version of it and can confirm it's extremely powerful - especially the aimbot function which accounts for bounces / fuse time perfectly.

Nizikawa's version is also tons of fun and surprisingly powerful!  I advise everyone to download it, just in case anyone decides to remove it or make it private.

Version 0.0.9.0 was released on May 8th 2022. Download: https://github.com/nizikawa-worms/wkRealTime/releases/latest/download/wkRealTime-release.zip
The module is now compatible with wkBigLobby; disabled turn pause after worm gets damaged; disabled weapon panel lock

What a legend this nizikawa is!