It's impossible for me or any other player who isn't as skilled on the ropes to win a playoff.

We have two rope races, ttrr and bigrr.

The playoff already starts 2-0 negative.

Roper, Wxw, Shopper... even if you are not that skilled, you still have a chance of winning if the game favors you or the opponent makes a mistake on a turn.

In my opinion, there should only be one rope run mode, you can choose bigrr or ttrr, but only one choice.


Am I dramatizing too much? I'm regretting it because I'll never win a playoff in this league format.

i think keeping ttrr, wxw, roper and shopper its fine like the classic league times
my real question its about big rr, i back this year and never see that schemme becaming so popular in league xD

Ropers have similar disadvantage when they don't get to pick first. Someone could only pick artillery schemes (BnG, Hysteria and Aerial) or strategic schemes (Elite, Intermediate and Team17).

I agree though that you should be required to win different type of schemes in a playoff series. I've suggested before that you could only pick:

2 of BnG, Hysteria, Aerial
2 of Elite, Intermediate, Team17, Shopper
2 of TTRR, Roper, WxW, Big RR

This way you'd need to win 2 x artillery and 1 x strategic, for example. This should also make playoff series more enjoyable to watch. More variation and closer series.

Quote from: Senator on July 26, 2024, 10:03 AMRopers have similar disadvantage when they don't get to pick first. Someone could only pick artillery schemes (BnG, Hysteria and Aerial) or strategic schemes (Elite, Intermediate and Team17).

yup. I often get frustrated when default players go elite+inter+team17 against ropers.
so Senator's suggestion is appreciated

Quote from: Senator on July 26, 2024, 10:03 AMRopers have similar disadvantage when they don't get to pick first. Someone could only pick artillery schemes (BnG, Hysteria and Aerial) or strategic schemes (Elite, Intermediate and Team17).

I agree though that you should be required to win different type of schemes in a playoff series. I've suggested before that you could only pick:

2 of BnG, Hysteria, Aerial
2 of Elite, Intermediate, Team17, Shopper
2 of TTRR, Roper, WxW, Big RR

This way you'd need to win 2 x artillery and 1 x strategic, for example. This should also make playoff series more enjoyable to watch. More variation and closer series.

Yes and no...

Even if you are an expert in land-only schemes, it is an advantage, but not a certainty.
Different from a TTRR or BIGRR. Which is a 100% sure win.

Most specialist rope players who play in the league are good/average or even great in ground schemes.


One suggestion is to play ALL schemes, but each player can ban one or two schemes each.
That would make it more fair.

You definitely have a point there, Camper.

I had a similar idea like Senator - maybe in a different way. I've seen it in Counter Strike matchmaking. At start of the game each team can ban a map. So if this is beeing transfered to WA each player could ban 2 schemes at start. That adds even more tactic and this way you can just ban your supposed weakest scheme or opponents strongest scheme etc. Banning the schemes should be done in turns ofc. First picker gets first choice to ban.

Overall 11 schemes, 4 gets banned (2 bans for each player), 7 remaining. This way, in Bo5, the amount of schemes will be reduced and everyone can respresent their preferences. It may lead to strongest schemes of both getting banned, but then you have more competition at playing the leftover schemes.

You will have to have a wider range of skill to pass good players, that obviously deserve to be at PO, and definitely makes the winner the best allrounder (of a season).

Don't forget Tower Race.

As usual I'm here to point out how incredibly ridiculous it is that it shares the same scheme file and standings as Big RR.

Though yeah, there are the 3 types of schemes:

Artillery - BnG, Hysteria, Aerial
Physical - Roper, TTRR, Big RR/Tower Race, WxW
Strategic - Shopper, Team17, Elite, Intermediate

It's actually pretty balanced, even more balanced if we add Grenade Wars.

Quote from: style on July 26, 2024, 11:14 AMYou definitely have a point there, Camper.

I had a similar idea like Senator - maybe in a different way. I've seen it in Counter Strike matchmaking. At start of the game each team can ban a map. So if this is beeing transfered to WA each player could ban 2 schemes at start. That adds even more tactic and this way you can just ban your supposed weakest scheme or opponents strongest scheme etc. Banning the schemes should be done in turns ofc. First picker gets first choice to ban.

Overall 11 schemes, 4 gets banned (2 bans for each player), 7 remaining. This way, in Bo5, the amount of schemes will be reduced and everyone can respresent their preferences. It may lead to strongest schemes of both getting banned, but then you have more competition at playing the leftover schemes.

You will have to have a wider range of skill to pass good players, that obviously deserve to be at PO, and definitely makes the winner the best allrounder (of a season).

this could be interesting in PO games, i play all schemmes but my tops are roper and hysteria, i usually dont like to pick roper or wxw against only land players and i try to pick some hyst or even shopper

wasn't the league split into ground and roping schemes already?!

I agree 100%. In addition, I'm against Big RR in the league because this scheme benefits those who have better hardware, a larger monitor that makes it possible to see the path of the map with a visual advantage, while the other maps you can see with most monitors. In fact, it even becomes a visual disadvantage to use a higher resolution in these schemes.

I can't use higher resolutions (1080p and higher), and if I force it, it breaks the game screen.

There are definitely too many rope schemes; I think worms in general should be geared towards more strategic or ground-based schemes, which is a bit more in line with what new players would want out of a worms game. And yeah I would be another person who can barely play Big RR due to my monitor not being big enough and too much screenlag. It's probably not a problem for most people, but worth noting.

Are people still that attached to roper? To me it feels like the crate dependence has always been too much of a problem. WxW feels like it 'could' be a replacement for roper too, you could create roper-like maps with walls to touch.

Quote from: Kaleu on July 27, 2024, 01:17 AMI agree 100%. In addition, I'm against Big RR in the league because this scheme benefits those who have better hardware, a larger monitor that makes it possible to see the path of the map with a visual advantage, while the other maps you can see with most monitors. In fact, it even becomes a visual disadvantage to use a higher resolution in these schemes.

I can't use higher resolutions (1080p and higher), and if I force it, it breaks the game screen.

didnt know this, i play this game in a small notebook xDDD, thats why i see many players so fast in this scheme

Quote from: Mablak on July 27, 2024, 01:54 AMAre people still that attached to roper? To me it feels like the crate dependence has always been too much of a problem. WxW feels like it 'could' be a replacement for roper too, you could create roper-like maps with walls to touch.

yep, for me Roper still one of my favourites schemes of all time, even if sometimes i got really unlucky with crates xD, but i really enjoy Roper clanner matches for example

Quote from: style on July 26, 2024, 11:14 AMI had a similar idea like Senator - maybe in a different way. I've seen it in Counter Strike matchmaking. At start of the game each team can ban a map. So if this is beeing transfered to WA each player could ban 2 schemes at start. That adds even more tactic and this way you can just ban your supposed weakest scheme or opponents strongest scheme etc. Banning the schemes should be done in turns ofc. First picker gets first choice to ban.

Overall 11 schemes, 4 gets banned (2 bans for each player), 7 remaining. This way, in Bo5, the amount of schemes will be reduced and everyone can respresent their preferences. It may lead to strongest schemes of both getting banned, but then you have more competition at playing the leftover schemes.

I've thought about this too but the problem is that schemes are not like maps. Some schemes have less luck involved than the others so I believe certain schemes would always get banned (TTRR and BnG probably unless the players are equally skilled).

Quote from: Kaleu on July 27, 2024, 01:17 AMI agree 100%. In addition, I'm against Big RR in the league because this scheme benefits those who have better hardware, a larger monitor that makes it possible to see the path of the map with a visual advantage, while the other maps you can see with most monitors. In fact, it even becomes a visual disadvantage to use a higher resolution in these schemes.

I can't use higher resolutions (1080p and higher), and if I force it, it breaks the game screen.

I mean, I agree with you but it's also just tough luck, this would mean that taking Big RR out gives those without "hardware" to play it an advantage. Which is essentially unfair as Big RR is the most popular roping scheme and has been for a while now.

Quote from: Senator on July 27, 2024, 09:03 AMI've thought about this too but the problem is that schemes are not like maps. Some schemes have less luck involved than the others so I believe certain schemes would always get banned (TTRR and BnG probably unless the players are equally skilled).

I don't get your point about some schemes having less luck involved here. What exactly do you mean?

By having the possibility to ban schemes you can simply avoid to get asskicked in a scheme you either dislike or know that your opponent is very strong in it. The playing is getting balanced and makes it more competitive in other schemes.

If there is one excellent roper (favorite schemes: rr and roper) and one excellent default player (favorite schemes: elite and t17) it puts the focus on the remaining schemes where probably both have to throw onself into. In WxW or Hysteria there would only be little distinctions at the result and games could get little more even, imo since both are either struggeling the same or having similar skill.

Quote from: Kaleu on July 27, 2024, 01:17 AMI agree 100%. In addition, I'm against Big RR in the league because this scheme benefits those who have better hardware, a larger monitor that makes it possible to see the path of the map with a visual advantage, while the other maps you can see with most monitors. In fact, it even becomes a visual disadvantage to use a higher resolution in these schemes.

I see a little advantage for those players with larger screens too for the stated reasons.

Quote from: TheKomodo on July 27, 2024, 11:05 AM

Quote from: Kaleu on July 27, 2024, 01:17 AMI agree 100%. In addition, I'm against Big RR in the league because this scheme benefits those who have better hardware, a larger monitor that makes it possible to see the path of the map with a visual advantage, while the other maps you can see with most monitors. In fact, it even becomes a visual disadvantage to use a higher resolution in these schemes.

I can't use higher resolutions (1080p and higher), and if I force it, it breaks the game screen.

I mean, I agree with you but it's also just tough luck, this would mean that taking Big RR out gives those without "hardware" to play it an advantage. Which is essentially unfair as Big RR is the most popular roping scheme and has been for a while now.

Though luck, why?

Well - if I look onto a case where 2 similar ropers play big rr and the one is having a bigger screen, which defo makes it easier to play, is brutal unfair. Despite the popularity we should not forget that it's the PO where games shouldn't be decided by such aspects.

Quote from: Mablak on July 27, 2024, 01:54 AMAre people still that attached to roper? To me it feels like the crate dependence has always been too much of a problem. WxW feels like it 'could' be a replacement for roper too, you could create roper-like maps with walls to touch.

That wall-idea would prolly make it a little more even and put focus on skill, yes - interesting idea. To me it also feels like that. Crate dependence often is game-deciding unfortunately from my view..


However - I think this whole topic can be discussed a lot and there will always be disagreements. If we decide to adjust on one little screw, we prolly have to adjust elswhere too.