Quote from: Kradie on November 01, 2024, 03:40 PMSome people, particular religious people, argues that if there is no God, there is no meaning.

are you suggesting to believe in God to find purpose?

by the way I'm touched that you guys are reading my awkward thoughts. I'll delve into philosophy a bit more

the people you are talking are, first of all, are Nietzsche and Dostoevsky, who by chance dived into the implications of the "death of God" simultaneously: as soon as people as a society realize that there is no God, there is no turning back, and men can only (and has to) create their own meanings, according to niezsche. hence his ideas about the ubermensch (basically a man who creates meanings for himself)

in philosophy, what you're suggesting (simply believing in god) is kierkegaardian leap of faith.
the problem is that you can't do it on your own. personally, i lost faith in christianity when I was a kid, i just can't consciously decide to believe again. I'd be glad to

I'm sorry, although my views can be perceived as depressing, I'm trying to be optimistic. i believe that life is worth living. i'm just searching for why.

by the way, speaking of religion. have you read Old Testament/Tanakh? one of the famous writings in them is called Ecclesiastes. it's truly one of the most pessimistic things you can ever read, it basically repeats my message above. it's about how meaningless life is, and paradoxically, its a big chunk of christianity

i couldn't believe it when i read it. partly because the style of writing is also quite different from the rest of the bible. it actually deepened my current views. i think i was around 17 at the time

If I had to choose a religion, it would be orthodox buddhism, like theravada. It's difficult to call a religion, it is a philosophy mainly. i find it much deeper than the western philosophy.

but even in buddhism, the central thought is pessimistic - life is suffering

i guess, the best thing I can do is probably not to infect you further with depressive philosophy. so avoid Schopenhauer at all costs, and german pessimists in general. they wrote much more convincingly than I do now.

but here's something I wanted to point out

Quote from: Kradie on November 01, 2024, 03:40 PMAn ungrateful person is not a good person

one of the implications of "God is dead" is that without God, the foundation of human morality disintegrates, so the concepts of good and bad lose their meaning (it's called immoralism). your appeal to what's good in your argument is itself based on faith in morality and religion.
when nothing has meaning, there is no criteria by which something can be good or bad.
i'm just too hopeless of a nihilist for that argument

nevertheless, I understand what you mean, and I also try to be a good person. even if you can't find meaning, there are "objective" reasons why it's logical to do the ethically right thing. one example for me is kantian categorical imperative. but i'm probably going too far with this

here's an interesting fact, I have a reading recommendation too. a play by Aristophanes called "the clauds". it's very short, around 80 pages.
in the play, Socrates basically invents science, and this destroys faith in the former gods, so all the moral foundations of society collapse. I was very impressed when I read it. it was 2,000 years ahead of Nietzsche. it was a joke against Socrates, and it's the reason why Socrates actually died (people believed in the play and condemned Socrates for "corrupting the youth")

Quote from: Kradie on October 30, 2024, 12:11 AMBut, I don't go around thinking about what quantum physics, and what it does around every corner. It doesn't really help and guide me much around in my life, but to know of it.

We may actually agree somewhat in the context of the thread. Maybe you missed that in the paragraph where I mentioned quantum physics, I was saying that stuff is on another level that doesn't seem so relevant to this thread.

The rest of my post wasn't my philosophy, but rather just to try and understand what we're talking about when we say "a person's philosophy". Even if I did include my viewpoint along with the list I gave, ie. my way of thinking, my way of interacting with others and so on, I think it's inevitable that my viewpoint aligns quite well with one of the numerous religions from somewhere around the world. Of course for me it'd probably be an Eastern religion or some branch of Satanism or something. But my point was to push the metaphysical stuff aside and list general aspects that anybody could have an answer for no matter what they believe.

To be quite honest, I still haven't found a worthy "purpose" in life either, I am still searching this myself, though I go through good days and bad days often, there are many great things I enjoy and many bad things I endure. One of the reasons for this is ultimately due to childhood trauma, learning about manipulation, deceit, lies, pain, suffering, torture, all from a very young age. This made me mature a lot faster than most kids around me in one way, yet never mature in other ways like seeking a career, getting married, having kids, finding religion etc.

I find value in both good and bad, one definitive thing I've discovered about myself is when confronted with the question am I a good person? My answer is, who is the judge? Yet when I do something good I feel good, when I do something bad I feel bad. Knowing "right from wrong" as a moral compass also helps keep me on track and makes sure I don't hurt other people maliciously though sometimes in life we hurt people without intention.

The main thing keeping me going is Dr. Drake Ramoray, my little floofy friend, or should I say void master, the real owner of this house who allows me to exist here also.



At the end of the day, I stand by my philosophy as it's my guiding principle for behaviour and other than "disagreeing" with people due to my strong opinions, I've done my best to avoid hurting other living beings while fulfilling my own desires and life goals. Trying to achieve ones goals without hurting other people is very important to me.

One of my biggest "flaws" apparently, which is something I've been told a lot, is actually being "too intense" for people, like I have a very addictive personality and can be "full on" too much. This causes people to become exhausted with me quickly and that can get very lonely I assure you. Plus I'm always talking about nature, the universe and whatever, which aren't really small talk subjects, my conversations, if I like you, can sometimes go from 0-299,792,458m/s at the snap of a finger and that's not for everyone. Which is why TUS is a good outlet for me to sit and type.

Having a big sense of humour helps me in my life especially with the trauma I suffered as a kid, some of the things I've seen I wouldn't wish upon anyone. So watching good comedy really helps me when I feel bad, it gets me laughing which gets me back on track.

2 of my favourite quotes which also help guide me:

"It doesn't matter who or what you are, there are always haters out to destroy you or your character, everybody has them, so do what you love doing and have fun doing it, the right people will come along and that matters."

I can't remember who said this, and it's not 100% accurate but it's how I see it and it helped me effectively cut off toxic people out my life.

Where I grew up, half of my friends ended up in jail, drunk abusive assholes, drug addicts, some even doing armed robbery, and some dead, my other "best friends" one cheated on me with my partner of 3 years and got her pregnant when I was 21, 2 of the others betrayed me in ways they don't even realize or understand, and the others were just selfish... I'm extremely lucky to have gotten away from all of that and a huge reason for that is thanks to Worms and hugely meeting M3ntal, they helped me more than they'll ever know. Of course I've got my Dad to thank as well for handling some stuff for me when I was younger.

All of it has hardened my skin though.

I love this quote from Bill Hicks:

"Here is my final point...About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography...What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, or take into my body as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet? And for those who are having a little moral dilemma in your head about how to answer that question, I'll answer it for you. NONE of your f**king business. Take that to the bank, cash it, and go f**king on a vacation out of my life."

Because that's how I see it, not enough people can tolerate the actions of others without getting annoyed to the point they become hostile. As long as their actions are not hostile, yours shouldn't be either.

@Impossible

For a lot of people religion brings them purpose. You don't have to believe in God either, but the Importance of God rather. I advice you to watch some of the Fireside Chats by Dennis Prager. He articulates this way better than I.

I am glad to know you find life worth living. The fact you are alive and is able to search for why, is enough meaning to life. That is your foundation it seem, to look for meaning and the why. In my case I already have meaning and why.

You are right, life is suffering. But there's meaning in suffering as well. You can give in and call it a day or you can live to the best of your ability. No matter the circumstance, there is always meaning. You just have to know where to look. The Path of Evil? The Path of Good?

I have a few questions for you
- Does something make you happy? IF yes: Then that's something wroth pursuing because it has meaning.
- Do you want to be right that there is no meaning? Yes, I am aware you searching for meaning, but I ask this question because your research thus far seem to have brought you further away from what I call ''reason''.
- Do you believe in eternal nothingness after death? IF so, do you want to be right about that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lieJIxJZs1M

We are all part of eternal source, eternal spirits. Energy can't dissappear, only transform.

Source is the Creator or "God", whatever you might want to name it but honestly it's not tied to any religions and stuff, as they are all mind-made constructs which is something only Ego and stuff understands. Nondualism and love baby <3 Enjoy life, in your own terms. Easier said than done though.

Quote from: Kradie on November 03, 2024, 01:52 PM- Does something make you happy? IF yes: Then that's something wroth pursuing because it has meaning.

this is a shaky logic.

1. some things make you happy in the short term, but miserable in the long run.
and what if bigger goals are worth suffering in the short run? after all, we prioritize long-term things all the time. we save money and invest, we avoid drugs, and so on

2. why exactly happiness should determine our purpose? this has a well-known ending, called hedonism.
i'd say happiness is just a criteria of life's quality. but it cannot fullfill life's meaning

3. in the end, even if i'll chase life's quality, there are many things that make us happy. how do i make a choice?

Quote from: Kradie on November 03, 2024, 01:52 PM- Do you want to be right that there is no meaning?

my dream would be to be wrong.

Quote from: Kradie on November 03, 2024, 01:52 PM- Do you believe in eternal nothingness after death? IF so, do you want to be right about that?

i'm agnostic, i don't believe it, but I don't deny it either. it's simply beyond subjective experience

Quote1. some things make you happy in the short term, but miserable in the long run.
and what if bigger goals are worth suffering in the short run? after all, we prioritize long-term things all the time. we save money and invest, we avoid drugs, and so on

Keep in mind, I believe everything has meaning, it is just a matter of perspective, and it is entirely subjective.

You say ''what if bigger goals are worth suffering in the short run?''? Am I wrong to assume that this thinking is associated with expectation and what society expects from you as Individual? If a person fails at their goals, it still has brought meaning to their character. If you have no expectation, there will be no disappointments.

Quote2. why exactly happiness should determine our purpose? this has a well-known ending, called hedonism.
i'd say happiness is just a criteria of life's quality. but it cannot fullfill life's meaning

I am sorry that you can't find meaning in happiness. But I do, it is a matter of perspective. If you know something that makes you feel good, you would wish to continue this. Btw, I am not talking about drugs.

Quotei'm agnostic, i don't believe it, but I don't deny it either. it's simply beyond subjective experience

Wouldn't it be nice to unite with people or something you had close relation to after you die? Just put religion aside and try answer honestly.

Overall, I think your thinking is unhealthy but I think also it Interesting purely out of academic purposes.

Quote from: Impossible on October 30, 2024, 10:47 PMpersonally, i'm stuck searching for meaning.

it has been going for years, since i was a kid. i've read all the philosophy and religious books, and I haven't really found an answer. all texts try to penetrate the question of meaning, but not one can give a satisfactory answer. and the rest of philosophy has no purpose without the meaning, so it always comes back to that one question. i found answers that satisfied me for months and years, but each one eventually fell apart.
i can discuss this forever. i feel that one day i'll be able to find an approach to this question. but so far, my search has only taken me further from this goal.

I pondered it on and off for a month and I think I finally figured out the Bloopy answer. I was mulling over 'my philosophy' before my page 1 reply to the thread, but this is sort of a whole new puzzle piece to fit back into that picture later...

I'm basically atheist and I don't think there's any inherent meaning to the universe, at least not one we can discover. So meaning as I know it is something created by the brain. At every level, the brain interprets signals to make sense of them, from hearing a simple humming sound, to feeling a complex mood based on a variety of factors. Following that train of thought, the meaning of life would be something like the overarching interpretation that arises when one ponders life as a whole.

So when I meditate on the entirety of existence and life as we know it, what sense does my mind make of it? That it's everything. It's tragic, it's entertaining, it's venerable or absurd, overwhelming or underwhelming, serendipitous or zemblanitous, it's like being inside a computer or labyrinth, it's a toy to play with, it's like being a slave to events beyond your control yet having the freedom to do anything within the bounds of physics and/or society, it's a chance to leave a legacy or even try to leave no trace at all. The meaning of life is the infinity of possibilities. Once I worked that out then I realised not only did Komo basically already say it ("we dream therefore we can"), but my ex also considers this meaning a core part of her identity. Funny knowing the Bloopy answer was already right in front of me since 6 years ago.

Philosophers get caught up on separating out different definitions of "meaning", particularly 'purpose' vs 'making sense of'. However, I think purpose is just more layers of interpretation. If someone finds a strong purpose, that helps them fill in the details of how existence makes sense to them. Or in my case I can take what sense I've made of life and ponder some ideas on top of that for my brain to conjure up a purpose.

I realise I may have a bit of a non-answer here. What it is is that it's possible, because if it wasn't, nothing would be...

So, for those who aren't aware, if you do a quick search on the meaning of "philosophy", google hits you back with:

Quote1. The study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.

2. A theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour.

I've always saw philosophy as being #2 due to #1. As in, your understanding of reality, existence, nature, and the combined sum of your life experience and knowledge is directly responsible for your behaviour in life.

I don't believe in individual free will, at all, it does not exist, it's impossible. I believe in mutual free will, something I strongly believe will merit from serious study by top level professionals in the future.

Mutual free will is all around us, it flows like time itself, interwebbing with the entire universe and is tied with the butterfly effect. It is the reason we fall in love, why we fight, why we compete, why we exist together.

Nothing is possible alone, truly alone, the first piece of evidence is that within this reality we need a reality to exist in.

"We are that we are."

We need air to breathe, gravity to hold us in place, we need space to move, we need all the lifeforms inside us to help us survive, we need all the laws of physics to navigate and use reality together.

Most people take all this for granted, they simply don't care, and it's that selfish attitude that drags the rest of us down with them.(But it's not their fault, they don't know unless we teach them!)

You don't have to sit thinking about this stuff constantly but at least know it and understand it, from understanding we are all together and need each other I believe we will achieve more together and be able to help one another.

Though it definitely feels like there are powerful people trying to prevent this because if you've ever seen Stargate SG-1 and know what the Ori are, it's kind of like that... The universe has finite power, our world has finite power, to share that power and wealth would only limit their own.

They need us more than we need them, that's why most of us simply and merely, exist, and why so many are depressed yet don't understand why. They don't know how truly powerful we can all be together and they are scared to let go of their comforts and fight together.

I believe WE can be so much more.

I agree with what Komo wrote about living collectively. I also liked Bloopy's thoughts.

I wrote this post due to this part of Komo's text, though:

Quote from: TheKomodo on December 02, 2024, 12:49 PMwe need all the lifeforms inside us to help us survive

Curiously at this moment I'm reading a book (~45% of it) about this subject. Its name is 10% Human by Alanna Collen. Very interesting read.

Quote from: FoxHound on December 02, 2024, 01:55 PMCuriously at this moment I'm reading a book (~45% of it) about this subject. Its name is 10% Human by Alanna Collen. Very interesting read.

Hey, that's pretty neat, could you share a few of your favourite passages that have anything to do with this thread please?

Quote from: TheKomodo on December 03, 2024, 11:36 AMHey, that's pretty neat, could you share a few of your favourite passages that have anything to do with this thread please?

Well, I'm still reading it, so I'm still trying to understand everything that she has to say in this book. I'm not sure if she is right, but what she says makes sense and is based on heavy scientific evidence.

Basically she says that after antibiotics, vaccines, antiseptics, hygiene in hospitals, and sanitation, most of the most scary diseases were gone after the end of XX century. Now in XXI century the diseases are different, they are not so scary, but they are growing and spreading more and more. Some diseases that were rare are common now, some diseases that we usually think that has to do with genetics, behavior and cultural aspects, she supports that they actually spread like epidemic. And all of these diseases of XXI century has to do with our microbiota, specifically the intestinal biota, that is more than 90% of our germs. We are 10% human because we have more germs in our intestine than human cells.

So, she believes that Obesity is a desease that is epidemic and it has a lot to do with the bacteria that we have in our intestine. The same for Autism, ADHD, allergy, autoimmune diseases, and many other things. Our diet and the antibiotics affect our germs. Some of our germs are good others are bad for us. What we eat, the people we kiss or share food and stuff affect our lifes. Our germs affect our behavior, including who we feel attracted to.

Still a lot to read, it's very crazy to think on this perspective, not sure if the world is exactly the way she tries to say, but it has a good logic and is based on a lot of references. True or not, it's very interesting and you learn a lot about the history of Medicine and germs in general.