Quote from: avirex on December 28, 2010, 11:50 AM
i agree with franz and johnny too... if you play perfectly, u will more then likely win...

but why should 1 played have to roper farther, roper longer, and rope more consistantly then the other roper... the luck factor is much to large in roper games, and dominate.

why do u think the elite scheme got rid of cr8s? because it added un-needed luck....

but nah, lets not make any changes to roper scheme to get rid of the luck factor.. ITS CLASSIC!

You're being sarcastic!

Wouldn't roper be boring if every game was the same, people roping the same distances etc.  It would be clinical.

And as I said on my last post, the probability evens out over time.

We've all had lucky games....and those games are unlucky for our opponent.  When we have bad luck, our opponent has had good luck.

It's all a big ying and yang type thing.

Yes it's classic + I like being f@#!ed over by nasty crates.  It's fun :<

ye avi cr8s are full of luck andm mistery, today per exemple there were a cr8 on my table and i asked my secretary wtf is this, she said she didnot know, i said wtf this could be a sheep u know? she was like what??? hauhauhauha

it was a wine btw, i gor from someone who buy me some bull xD

People who think the scheme should be changed : Komo Avi, while I'm pretty sure Nino and Husk didn't bother trying to get good at it, Shyguy I never played him at roper

People who think the scheme is fine : Me Franz Cue Random Johnny, and all the others people who didnt bother starting a topic in previous leagues

Way to be biased Komo, saying there are very very few people with Franz. (If you answer no more than 3 lines plz)


"Mistakes in ropers are very common, and they decide the game way more than crates"

Can't agree more


And you talk about the problem if 2 consistent players play, which barelly happens actually. Everyone makes little mistakes (as I quoted). I remember the Pinguim vs Mablak matches for exemple, 2 of the most consistent ropers, and Mablak always won, guess Pinguim got crate raped everytime huh? auhauh

There were a lot of supporters for change in the w2roper thread.

Like avi said, why should a player do this and that and blah blah blah just to compensate for a crate the game engine gave them?  Why should a player miss an attack just because the game said so?  That is the issue.  Like I said before, franz's solution doesn't fix the issue... it is hardly even related to it.  I'm trying to think of a comparison... let's try this:

The forest is on fire,
fire could kill you,
therefore, let's let the forest stay on fire for the sake of our safety.

The fire is still there, you are just circumventing your way around it, that's why I am having trouble finding your arguments logical to the issue at hand.  Hell, even Komo's suggestion of making maps easier puts the fire out more than "play better" does.

Shyguy, do you think the crate positions affect all players equally?  Or pick on some players more than others?

Is it the random spawn engine that's wrong or the very idea behind random crate placement?

If you got random crates then it's the same for everyone.  No one gets let off the hook.

So technically the scheme is fair....no?

Only if both players get the same amount of evil crates.  I don't find it okay to let the game engine dictate that, though.  

EDIT: it is true, both players get random crate placing, but it is not true that both players will both end up with the same amount of hard and easy crates every time.

Except this problem is not a forest on fire, but a little match on fire. Is it really an issue since in the end the best player wins 9 out 10 times? Impossible crates happen once in a while, and also there are crates impossible for a player and not for the other... It's not as easy as to say, oh an impossible crate the scheme is flawed. It sounds a bit like an excuse. There are so many parameters in a simple turn, an impossible crate once in a while is just a detail in the end if you achieve the normal ones, which most of the people struggle doing consistently


Sorry if there is some bad english xD

Quote from: ShyGuy on December 28, 2010, 09:02 PMEDIT: it is true, both players get random crate placing, but it is not true that both players will both end up with the same amount of hard and easy crates every time.

So what's the definition of 'easy' and 'hard' crates?  This would surely vary from player to player?

For a rope master there are fewer positions on the map that a crate could fall in which the crate is 'out of reach'.  For a beginner there are many positions that would be classed as a 'hard' crate.

what are these parameters in a single turn you are talking about? getting the crate, knocking, hiding, choosing the best weapon to attack with, using retreat time... what else is there?  all of those things I just listed are affected by the kind of crate you get.  If you get an easy crate, you can knock for a bit and maybe get some fd, etc... An impossible crate doesn't allow you to do any of those things except hide back where you were.  

Quote from: Cueshark on December 28, 2010, 09:26 PM

Quote from: ShyGuy on December 28, 2010, 09:02 PMEDIT: it is true, both players get random crate placing, but it is not true that both players will both end up with the same amount of hard and easy crates every time.

So what's the definition of 'easy' and 'hard' crates?  This would surely vary from player to player?

For a rope master there are fewer positions on the map that a crate could fall in which the crate is 'out of reach'.  For a beginner there are many positions that would be classed as a 'hard' crate.

I'm really only talking about crates that get tucked into the opposite island.  I think it is ridiculous that we are forced to fetch those and lose a turn.  Even if I was playing extremely consistent and I got one of those crates I would think it is dumb that I would have to throw away a turn just cos I got a bad placing.

For easy, I'm really only talking about crates that get placed right under your nose so you have 11-12 seconds to knock his worm around or whatever.

= roping efficiently, you miss a climb and you're f@#!ed, hard crate or not. There's the flow of the game too, who you are facing... You really want me to list everything? auha

And you didnt answer, you're sure it's that big of an issue since you agreed that the best player wins anyway?

Yeah, because it is a luck factor that can be fixed, just like random barrels and mines in elite

*puts flame shield up*

Oh I see.  I understand your position now.

Shit happens...in all schemes.  That's all I can say.

But if there are a growing number of people who require change then it must be in the form of either special maps which have a limiter on the maximum crate difficulty or a change of scheme altogether which seems a bit radical.

Can't add anymore than that! :<

We already proposed w2roper which keeps the parameters you guys speak of intact plus adding a number more.  It passed the league vote but no one is playing it or agrees to play it.

Quote from: ShyGuy on December 28, 2010, 09:49 PM
Yeah, because it is a luck factor that can be fixed, just like random barrels and mines in elite

*puts flame shield up*

random barrels/mines in elite was an easy fix because removing them didn't change the underlying gameplay.

random health drops in roper is not an easy fix because removing them takes away a fundamental part of roper gameplay.  without a crate to collect, there is no point in roping around the map at all.  if you leave them in the game, but remove the rule that you must collect them, you haven't completely destroyed the 'luck factor' of health crates.  they can still hurt or help you.

unless there is a clear cut, great idea that everyone can agree with and rally around.. just accept the randomness of crates, rope your best, and have fun  

W2roper ftw .. Duh