[SOLVED] Lukz Avoiding

[Sbaffo]

does this mean i am forced to play with everyone who spams my snoop ? this ruling is quite weird, lukz never asked to play in ag, he just agreed to play with dibz.
i never read any rule saying: once someone asks you to play a league game, you are forbidden to start a league game with someone else.

There's a difference between playing with friends here and then and competing for the PO spots. Sbaffo and Lukz are both competing for the PO spots so they are not allowed to avoid certain players like that. I haven't talked much with Lukz but he still asked me tus. It's not like he just wanted to play tus with his buddies. For some reason he wanted to play tus against any player except Sbaffo.

could you please link me to the rules section telling about these differences, or show me any conversation with mods about a definition of avoiding? i asked when this rule got introduced, franz just said: "mods will look at each case". ropa was the only one trying to give a definition:
"What is proof is taking a picture of someone asking to TUS for half an hour and when you ask him to he ignores you / joins a different game of someone who asked afterwards etc..."

If you'd read the first post you could see that lukz actually did that

[Aerox]

you are forbidden to start a league game with someone else.

and that's the next best thing to having a league format where everyone plays everyone once or twice.

many rules of this league lose all coherency if we don't assume you're supposed to play whoever is immediately available and not nitpick - it defeats the purpose of the ladder.

this is a no argument anyway, Lukz himself manifested that he was avoiding Baffo so that's that. Whether he chose to play a player of similar or higher skill level instead doesn't change the fact that Baffo is losing potential points due to Lukz nitpicking who he plays. I wouldn't have personally done anything with just the first logs, because many things can happen and you can't force people to do anything, but Lukz admitted he didn't want to play a particular player, so - no argument.

[Hussar]

1st. Lukz is too good to afraid any1.
2nd. There is no rule about forcing someone to play with the other.

If he dont like u or dont like to play with u, he can to not play with ya.

[Aerox]

avoiding isn't or shouldn't be about skill. It's about third parties having influence in who gets to playoffs.

It can be used in many ways not necessarily to avoid loses, but to avoid people gaining points in favor of friends / clanmates.

it shouldn't be up to people outside of PO to have influence in who gets in the PO. It should be up to those in the top 8 or 16 or whatever. Or as close as possible to achieving that.

we eliminate the influence by the first come first served rule. Lukz shouldn't get to choose who loses or wins between Baffo and Dibz (let's say two potential PO players) but he's going to influence by making either win or lose points. To remove his influence we use the "play whoever asks" and that's why it's always been either bad mannered or illegal, depending on league, to do what Lukz does here.

It's easy to ignore a player mechanically in WA. If a player is so much of a hassle that someone refuses to play him in a game due to the way he behaves then surely he should be also banned from the website and posting in the forum?

In a world where things make sense.

[Sensei]

he must play me.

?
He must play you only if, after asking "tus any1", you are the first to reply.
Apparently, he doesn't like you. Not that big of a deal.

[skunk3]

avoiding isn't or shouldn't be about skill. It's about third parties having influence in who gets to playoffs.

It can be used in many ways not necessarily to avoid loses, but to avoid people gaining points in favor of friends / clanmates.

it shouldn't be up to people outside of PO to have influence in who gets in the PO. It should be up to those in the top 8 or 16 or whatever. Or as close as possible to achieving that.

we eliminate the influence by the first come first served rule. Lukz shouldn't get to choose who loses or wins between Baffo and Dibz (let's say two potential PO players) but he's going to influence by making either win or lose points. To remove his influence we use the "play whoever asks" and that's why it's always been either bad mannered or illegal, depending on league, to do what Lukz does here.

It's easy to ignore a player mechanically in WA. If a player is so much of a hassle that someone refuses to play him in a game due to the way he behaves then surely he should be also banned from the website and posting in the forum?

In a world where things make sense.

If anyone needs banned, it's you, lol.

[sock]

avoiding isn't or shouldn't be about skill. It's about third parties having influence in who gets to playoffs.

It can be used in many ways not necessarily to avoid loses, but to avoid people gaining points in favor of friends / clanmates.

it shouldn't be up to people outside of PO to have influence in who gets in the PO. It should be up to those in the top 8 or 16 or whatever. Or as close as possible to achieving that.

we eliminate the influence by the first come first served rule. Lukz shouldn't get to choose who loses or wins between Baffo and Dibz (let's say two potential PO players) but he's going to influence by making either win or lose points. To remove his influence we use the "play whoever asks" and that's why it's always been either bad mannered or illegal, depending on league, to do what Lukz does here.

It's easy to ignore a player mechanically in WA. If a player is so much of a hassle that someone refuses to play him in a game due to the way he behaves then surely he should be also banned from the website and posting in the forum?

In a world where things make sense.

I agree with what you said. I am not so sure about this though " If a player is so much of a hassle that someone refuses to play him in a game due to the way he behaves then surely he should be also banned from the website and posting in the forum?" Further explanation?

[Sbaffo]

he must play me.

?
He must play you only if, after asking "tus any1", you are the first to reply.
Apparently, he doesn't like you. Not that big of a deal.

Asking it in ag is as same as doing it private, since every player in ag reached the limits with me, i wait someone to log in and ask in private.

[Sensei]

Asking it in ag is as same as doing it private, since every player in ag reached the limits with me, i wait someone to log in and ask in private.

I meant: only if HE is the one asking for tus and you're the first to reply - that's the only scenario when he MUST play against you.

If you ask and he don't want - that's his right. Like hussar said - lukz probably isn't feared of anyone here. If you accused asbest for avoiding, it would have more sense. Imo.

[Aerox]

avoiding isn't or shouldn't be about skill. It's about third parties having influence in who gets to playoffs.

It can be used in many ways not necessarily to avoid loses, but to avoid people gaining points in favor of friends / clanmates.

it shouldn't be up to people outside of PO to have influence in who gets in the PO. It should be up to those in the top 8 or 16 or whatever. Or as close as possible to achieving that.

we eliminate the influence by the first come first served rule. Lukz shouldn't get to choose who loses or wins between Baffo and Dibz (let's say two potential PO players) but he's going to influence by making either win or lose points. To remove his influence we use the "play whoever asks" and that's why it's always been either bad mannered or illegal, depending on league, to do what Lukz does here.

It's easy to ignore a player mechanically in WA. If a player is so much of a hassle that someone refuses to play him in a game due to the way he behaves then surely he should be also banned from the website and posting in the forum?

In a world where things make sense.

I agree with what you said. I am not so sure about this though " If a player is so much of a hassle that someone refuses to play him in a game due to the way he behaves then surely he should be also banned from the website and posting in the forum?" Further explanation?

well I mean, how hard is it to ctrl+F someone who annoys you in chat? that should be the main course of action not just expect everyone to act to your liking.

If someone is so much of a weirdo that instantly starts criticizing your mother or your religion from the moment you accept to TUS him, in the various lobbies before giving you the chance to even ignore him. Or if someone makes a hassle out of picks that makes getting a game going with him a real issue then the issue should be whether or not he should be allowed to be playing league games to begin with, because giving people a free pass to avoid these kind of characters (if they exist at all) will still be somewhat adulterating the league.

[sock]

avoiding isn't or shouldn't be about skill. It's about third parties having influence in who gets to playoffs.

It can be used in many ways not necessarily to avoid loses, but to avoid people gaining points in favor of friends / clanmates.

it shouldn't be up to people outside of PO to have influence in who gets in the PO. It should be up to those in the top 8 or 16 or whatever. Or as close as possible to achieving that.

we eliminate the influence by the first come first served rule. Lukz shouldn't get to choose who loses or wins between Baffo and Dibz (let's say two potential PO players) but he's going to influence by making either win or lose points. To remove his influence we use the "play whoever asks" and that's why it's always been either bad mannered or illegal, depending on league, to do what Lukz does here.

It's easy to ignore a player mechanically in WA. If a player is so much of a hassle that someone refuses to play him in a game due to the way he behaves then surely he should be also banned from the website and posting in the forum?

In a world where things make sense.

I agree with what you said. I am not so sure about this though " If a player is so much of a hassle that someone refuses to play him in a game due to the way he behaves then surely he should be also banned from the website and posting in the forum?" Further explanation?

well I mean, how hard is it to ctrl+F someone who annoys you in chat? that should be the main course of action not just expect everyone to act to your liking.

If someone is so much of a weirdo that instantly starts criticizing your mother or your religion from the moment you accept to TUS him, in the various lobbies before giving you the chance to even ignore him. Or if someone makes a hassle out of picks that makes getting a game going with him a real issue then the issue should be whether or not he should be allowed to be playing league games to begin with, because giving people a free pass to avoid these kind of characters (if they exist at all) will still be somewhat adulterating the league.

Thank you for explaining.

[Senator]

There's a difference between playing with friends here and then and competing for the PO spots. Sbaffo and Lukz are both competing for the PO spots so they are not allowed to avoid certain players like that. I haven't talked much with Lukz but he still asked me tus. It's not like he just wanted to play tus with his buddies. For some reason he wanted to play tus against any player except Sbaffo.

could you please link me to the rules section telling about these differences, or show me any conversation with mods about a definition of avoiding? i asked when this rule got introduced, franz just said: "mods will look at each case". ropa was the only one trying to give a definition:
"What is proof is taking a picture of someone asking to TUS for half an hour and when you ask him to he ignores you / joins a different game of someone who asked afterwards etc..."

I don't think there's written definition of avoiding. As u quoted, avoiding is when u look for tus and refuse to play against certain player. It doesn't necessarily require "tus anyone" from the avoider. If u ask someone tus in PM, that's the same thing as u would write "tus anyone" on the channel. If someone asks u tus in PM and a moment later u accept tus with someone else, that may be considered avoiding (at least if it happens several times). Lukz wrote "me tus" on the channel so it was easy to see when he accepted tus with other player. But he admitted avoiding himself so it was a clear case anyway.

So "play whoever asks" as ropa said is basically the rule but I think it applies mainly to playoff contenders. Avoiding between PO contenders and noobs may not be punished. Also, if u have already played like 10 games against player X, u may not be punished for refusing to play against him and accepting tus against other player for a change. Common sense can be used here

[Anubis]

Since both are PO contenders it's very likely they are forced to play each other anyway. I don't see the logic in being able to avoid beforehand. 

[spleen17]

Presumably everyone in the PO positions can report a free win vs Asbest then?

EDIT: ah he's been opted out, nevermind

[Almog]

Are you kidding me...

1) I agree with Lukz, Sbaffo is a pain in the ass.

2) You can check my games' logs with Sbaffo for similar 'insults'.

3) I couldn't pick up from this thread what avoiding is according to the mods, but I do know this: avoiding has to be when someone avoids more than one player. For example, I can see why Asbest is an avoider. 

4) What's the biggest purpose of this league, or any league for that matter? Some might say competition. But why we want competition? Because it's fun for us. In the end we play to have fun. Now lets say one *particular* player makes me uncomfortable, as Lukz was trying to say using his bad English, do I have to play with him only so I don't lose points to free wins? Does this make sense to you?

5) Did someone ask Lukz to see this thread and give a statement? OR are you actually expecting him to see it by himself?

6) Yesterday, before seeing this thread, Sbaffo asked me for tus and I told him directly and clearly that I will not play with him unless I have to (because he pissess me off). That makes me an avoider like Lukz. I wonder why he didn't report this btw. However - if I'm forced to play someone who pissess me off because of a stupid rule  - then you can expect rule abuse for many times people 'avoid' me. And after I do this , many more people will, and soon this league will become one of free games.